Is driving over the speed limit sin?

Yes speeding is a sin, going over the posted speed limitis not necessarily a sin. For a forum where most of the participants believe in sola fida, you guys seem to get hung up on the strangest things. I mean really, you show up at the throne and you are told, well done good and faithful servant, you never went above 55 mph on the toll way. Has any theologian ever written on the ethics of driving?
I mean think about it. Many would throw away the OT, it has been nailed to the cross and replaced by grace, but because of a passage in Romans and 1 Peter, they become adament about the minutae of secular law. I mean no offense here, I just am totally confused as to the perspective of this kind of thinking.

I took the 55 Alive Drivers' Course, and we were told that the safest thing to do is proceed at the same speed that other traffic is proceeding.

A car going 10 mph slower than all the other cars can be a hazard (think about it....we've all seen cars going slower than the flow of traffic at times....and we've seen lots of tailgating and lane changing around them.)

I believe that keeping up with the rest of the traffic, even if going 5 mph over the speed limit, is not sinful if you are doing so to keep roads safer for yourself and everyone else.

I feel similarly about tailgating. I spent my first 20 years as a driver in the suburbs of New York City. If I left 5 car lengths between the car in front of me and my own car on a highway, cars would cut in front of me right and left, creating a hazardous condition. I try to tailgate as little as I can when I'm back for a visit, but it is virtually impossible not to tailgate. Leaving more than 2 car lengths between you and the car in front of you is seen by all the other cars as a passing opportunity. It's safest to gird yourself for some stressful driving and be extra alert.

OreGal said:

I don't believe anybody here claims that if you exceed the posted speed limit, you're condemned to hell. That's a bit of a stretch.

this is simply about wanting to do what is right in our Father's eyes.

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Well, proverbs is a good start , but you are right, that is the best motive for anything.

OreGal said:

Yes, there are a few things to think about in Proverbs

30 He who winks with his eye is plotting perversity;
he who purses his lips is bent on evil

I knew there was something wrong with this little guy here ...

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You must be using one of those New fangled versions

30 He shutteth his eyes to devise froward things: moving his lips he bringeth evil to pass.

I thought it referred to this guy

And the man that fixes his eyes devises perverse things, and marks out with his lips all evils: he is a furnace of wickedness. (LXX)

or this guy

Christian ethics is quite an interesting area.

We are to obey the authorities except where to do so would be to disobey God. Pretty difficult to figure out how it would be disobeying God to drive under the speed limit in most situations. There are situations though. Sometimes you can cause an additional hazard to others by driving slower for instance. But normally, we should obey the limit.

It's not right for officials to create and use laws to raise revenue, to "fool" people into disobeying laws if you will. But that is their sin, the proper answer to that isn't more sin, if people obeyed the limits in "speed traps" it wouldn't be long before many would go away, since they wouldn't raise revenue anyway.

If people all started obeying the speed limits tomorrow, you would see enough drop in gas consumption that it would be reasonable to expect a significant drop in gas prices to follow shortly, wouldn't that be nice. You could think of it as a bit of a personal decision as well. Driving the speed limit while going to work instead of 5 or 10 over would, for many, over the course of the year, save enough to pay for a pretty nice trip. Put up with the hassle of a car pool or mass transit and... well the possibilities are endless.

But for many, they really don't think of life as any decisions at all, even when they do make them. Maybe they say, "I had to drive fast, I was late for work." Then it's why were you late. Maybe they say, "I just wanted a little more sleep, I was so tired." Why were they tired, "I stayed up and watched tv late last night." At some point you get to where they actually did make a decision and the rest follows.

It is literally a dangerous road to travel to assume that authorities permit, even want us to disobey. If a parent tells a child to be in by 10:00 should the child just assume the parent really means 11:00? What if the parent gounds the kid and the kid says, well you say it's okay to speed, what's the difference? You say they expect you to speed, I thought you expected me late.

Pushing right to the point where authorities must step in violates the basis of Christianity. Do we sin because we can and get away with it? That is, quite literally what it is like if all that restrains us is the law. But we aren't to live under the law, but grace. How does it exhibit Christ's love to the world to speed? How is speeding a witness to what God has done for us?

Marv

seekingpurity047 said:

jiust a comment on this verse. I don't like the way that the NLT puts it, and I don't think it's totally accurate with the original texts. The ESV said "For whatever does not proceed from faith is sin"...

and yes, going over the speed limit is sin.

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Whatever is not done with a full conviction that it is right (clear conscience), is sinful; whatever is done when a man doubts whether it is right (guilty conscience), is sin.

BigNorsk said:

It's not right for officials to create and use laws to raise revenue, to "fool" people into disobeying laws if you will. But that is their sin, the proper answer to that isn't more sin, if people obeyed the limits in "speed traps" it wouldn't be long before many would go away, since they wouldn't raise revenue anyway.

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You obviously do not understand the nature of speed traps. They are set up in areas where safe speeds are considered breaking the law. Not everyone keeps staring at their speedometer while driving. You just get caught up with what would be the 85 percentile speed, and they grab you while you were feeling relaxed and safe, not realizing that the speed you were driving at was "legally" incorrect. Jesus criticized the Pharissees who condemned him for breaking the Sabbath. According to the law (in their eyes) he did break the law. Yet, they used the law unjustly.

I am not advocating breaking the law. I am just explaining some abuses of making laws. It takes what would not be a crime (under fair conditions of justice) and makes those who should be the ones to determine what the law into criminals when an artificial speed limit is imposed. I find it unsafe to keep driving with my eyes on the speedometer all the time.

Job 37:23 niv
"The Almighty is beyond our reach and exalted in power; in his justice and great righteousness, he does not oppress."

If people all started obeying the speed limits tomorrow, you would see enough drop in gas consumption that it would be reasonable to expect a significant drop in gas prices to follow shortly, wouldn't that be nice.

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That's not true! The original reason for the 55 speed limit, was because at that time the cars had primitive electronic ignition systems that performed poorly as the speed increased. Today, we get better mileage at highway speeds than we do riding around town! The ignition systems are leaps ahead of what was existing when the original 55 limit was imposed. Ahh! But what wonderful thing was discovered at that time! Certain police precincts could plan their annual budget ahead of time and guarantee meeting it! How? Just park on this strip of road and keep pulling them over until you have reached your quota!

I was stopped in a speed trap and I was not the one speeding! Yet, my word meant nothing. I fought the ticket. I had a hearing. They were willing to drop it down to half the "mandatory donation." I refused. I later went before the judge and he threw out the ticket. But, he hit me with a court fee which equalled the original ticket amount!

I then went home and ripped up the letter from a Senator DeMato, asking for a donation for a policeman's monument to be erected in DC. I then took the money I was going to contribute, and found me a good radar detector. That was back around 1991.

Then I began to study how speed traps work. In one city in California some local citizens used the Ricco law (anti- racketeering law) to try and stop one police department from extortion by abusing the speed trap ploy.

Like I said earlier. I think the police should receive better pay automatically! Instead of grabbing one citizen at a time and imposing a mandatory contribution to the policeman's benevolence fund, we should all be paying a local tax to give the police what they need to function comfortably.

After all, they are called to lay down their lives in the case of serious crime. I can see why some feel angered and justified in having speed traps, for they need to have a good living for what they do. Now, if everyone paid a dollar, or two, a year towards a mandatory police tax? No one is hurt. And, then the police can concentrate on those who do drive dangerously. Not simply those who step over a mandated line of speed which is yet very safe, but is a technicality which is unfair to drivers who are safe by nature.

We are to be the salt of the earth. We are to have an influence on the justice we find in the area we live. All it would take is one person with the qualifications required to introduce such a law. In that way, the roads will still be safe. But everyone will be able to relax and enjoy their life on the road, and not feel like Big Brother is always watching them on their every turn.

Psalm 103:6 niv
"The LORD works righteousness and justice for all the oppressed."

Grace and peace, GeneZ

I am pretty familiar with how speed traps work, the majority of people going through them are fully aware they are there because they drive through them all the time. Of course the favorite victims are those far away from home, since it usually isn't worth their time to fight the ticket. I know a small town that paved it's street through the faithfulness of their police enforcing the speed limit on the main highway that went through their town.

Of course the next time the highway was rebuilt the state made it so that everything just bypasses that town now. Justice in action.

Yes, there are those officials who would just unfairly ticket people, but they are getting rarer all the time. Getting pretty hard to find enough powerless people to pick on at this time most limit themselve to minorities and people far from home. If you know of officials that have speed traps or other such unfair things, I believe it is your Christians duty to do what you can to expose, remove, and punish such people, don't you agree?

You are correct that slower doesn't always mean more efficient, automobiles now compared to when we instituted the 55 mph limits last time are 800 lbs heavier and have twice the horsepower and through engineering miracles get about the same mileage. For every vehicle and conditions there is that point that maximizes mileage per gallon. Major gas consumption in town comes from inefficient driving habits and conditions resulting in lots of starts and stops. Hybrid vehicles show big improvement because they capture the energy wasted in braking by conventionals, and the gas engine doesn't run when they are stopped unless batteries are discharged.

On the highways, speeds are above the optimum point. If the average traffic speed is currently 70-75 mph, there would be quite a gas savings if the average speeds were the 60-65 mph that would be consistent in most places with the posted limit. I'm not saying that traffic moving 30 mph would see some big savings at 20. Unless the stops are such that they could move smoothly at 20 instead of start and stop at 30. A smooth 30 would beat a start and stop 20.

Many people can increase their city mileage just with some changes in habits, and observing traffic a ways ahead. No use rushing to get to a red light, better to let off the gas and coast and get there as traffic is starting to move. As just an example.

There are a lot of things people do that are just flat out wasteful. We shouldn't be surprised when relative shortage is the temporary result. Even if we used less it wouldn't eliminate shortages. It takes years to increase outputs in many cases and people are so patient they want it NOW!

People in the US save about 1% of what they earn that means that for many an increase in things like energy and health care result in the short term with decisions to either do without other things or to buy lower priced things than they would otherwise. I haven't met a group of people yet happy to have their living standards decline and that is exactly what is currently happening in the US. Next comes the scramble where everyone tries to get back to or even a little ahead of where they were before, and with the larger slices going to energy and health it isn't going to be pretty. Conservation is a relatively painless way to ease the shortage of oil in at least the short term. People will have to cut back, they could help themselves by slowing down a little.

Marv