Is Dr Dino for real?

Arikay · Apr 1, 2003

Until your kid dies of a cold that could have been prevented by Medicine. Poor child that died, he must not have had enough faith, yep, thats it.

Or of course, you could try a balance, a bit of a faith and a bit of medicine, can keep a kid alive and spiritual.

JohnR7 · Apr 1, 2003

1st April 2003 at 10:34 PM Pete Harcoff said this in Post #16

That's not the same scenario as a scientist working for a university, for example.

If a scientist is working independant. They they can choose to patient any new medicine, and then sell the patient to a drug company. Or they can just publish it and give it away if they want.

Arikay · Apr 1, 2003

very few scientists work independently. Generally it costs way too much. Which is why they often work for a company or get grant money from universities.

JohnR7 · Apr 1, 2003

1st April 2003 at 11:03 PM Arikay said this in Post #21

Until your kid dies of a cold 

Now why does it not surprise me that this is what your response would be? Maybe because you know nothing about God's divine faith and how powerful it is?

Science would never question the effectiveness of prayer. They know the placebo effect and they know how effective faith is. If a child has confidence in their parent's prayer, they will get better. Or at least show improvment.

You are the one who would watch people die, because you would deny what has been proven to be effecting to bring about improvement or healing.

Susan · Apr 1, 2003

1st April 2003 at 08:05 PM JohnR7 said this in Post #22

. . . and then sell the patient to a drug company. Or they can just publish it and give it away if they want.

I don't know about you, but I think most patients would be screaming mad about being sold to a drug company, published, or given away.

I think you meant "patent."

Arikay · Apr 1, 2003

Science would never question the effectiveness of prayer. They know the placebo effect and they know how effective faith is. If a child has confidence in their parent's prayer, they will get better. Or at least show improvment.

Well, I believe science has questioned the effectiveness of prayer.

Yes, sometimes the placebo effect works, however, sometimes medication is a Must. There are colds in which the human body cant destroy and we need medication.
So are you saying that if a child dies from a cold, then they didnt have confidence in their parents and god and that its their fault that they died?

You are the one who would watch people die, because you would deny what has been proven to be effecting to bring about improvement or healing.

Really I would? John, please actually read the post before you start telling me what I would do.

Did I not say that the best idea was a balance of faith and medicine? Hmm, lets check...

"Or of course, you could try a balance, a bit of a faith and a bit of medicine, can keep a kid alive and spiritual."

Why Yes, Yes I did say that a balance was the best course.

1st April 2003 at 08:13 PM JohnR7 said this in Post #24

Now why does it not surprise me that this is what your response would be? Maybe because you know nothing about God's divine faith and how powerful it is?

Science would never question the effectiveness of prayer. They know the placebo effect and they know how effective faith is. If a child has confidence in their parent's prayer, they will get better. Or at least show improvment.

You are the one who would watch people die, because you would deny what has been proven to be effecting to bring about improvement or healing.

JohnR7 · Apr 1, 2003

1st April 2003 at 11:08 PM Arikay said this in Post #23

very few scientists work independently. Generally it costs way too much. Which is why they often work for a company or get grant money from universities.

Some universities require people to raise their own research funds.

In some cases "good science" is based more on your ability to be a good fund raiser. That is why we have to put up with so much nonsense.

Just like TV, is geared toward the target audience that has money they are willing to spend. If we are not willing to spend our money on what they are peddling, they will not put programing out that appeals to us.

Just like toys are marketed for the people who have the money to spend to buy them, not always the kids who play with them.

JohnR7 · Apr 1, 2003

1st April 2003 at 11:20 PM Arikay said this in Post #26

Well, I believe science has questioned the effectiveness of prayer.

No reputable medical program would ever question the effectiveness of prayer. Study after study has shown that the more you pray, the more you read your Bible, the more you go to church, the better off you are going to be. One study on Blood Preasure showed that people who are faith based have 40% lower chance of having high blood preasure. Another study showed that people who are good Samaritans. Who even do simple acts of kindness for their neighbor like picking up a newspaper for them or something like that. These people live 5 years longer.

Yes, sometimes the placebo effect works,

Sometimes the placebo effect works? How about 33 % of the time in every double blind study that has ever been run. It is not always the same people either. If you give the same group of people a different color placebo, you will still have a 33% improvement and it will not be the exact same people as what showed improvement with the origional placebo.

There are people who claim they can get up to 60% improvement just using placebos. If they are administered in the right way. A part of that is switching from one placebo to another if the first one does not seem to work.

 child dies from a cold,

How many children die for a cold? Do you have the stats on that?

 

Freedom777 · Apr 1, 2003

Hi here is a couple of good creation sites you will find very helpful . answersingenisis.org and icr.org

JohnR7 · Apr 1, 2003

1st April 2003 at 11:18 PM Susan said this in Post #25

I don't know about you, but I think most patients would be screaming mad about being sold to a drug company, published, or given away. I think you meant "patent."

Yeah, they would be screaming mad if they knew. The trick is not to let them know.

On the other hand, yes, I meant patent as in copy protection.

Freedom777 · Apr 1, 2003

oops the correct spelling is www.answersingenesis.org and www.icr.org

Pete Harcoff · Apr 1, 2003

1st April 2003 at 11:43 PM Freedom777 said this in Post #31

oops the correct spelling is www.answersingenesis.org and www.icr.org

What do these sites have to do with the current discussion?

Arikay · Apr 1, 2003

Now, lets think here. If the plecebo effect has been shown to work ONLY 30% of the time (rather high in my opinion, especially when you are dealing with a serious illness) then dont you think we should also give the kids medicine, since only 1/3rd will be saved with the plecebo effect?

So, can the plecebo effect cure serious illnesses, like cancer, how about AIDs? How about serious asthma?

Im looking for data but I do know colds kill many children in third world countries. They also killed many people in the past. But I guess we must have more faith than the people of the past.

(Also a note, in the future it would be nice if you actually read my post and dont try to put words in my mouth. Thanks. )

1st April 2003 at 08:36 PM JohnR7 said this in Post #28

No reputable medical program would ever question the effectiveness of prayer. Study after study has shown that the more you pray, the more you read your Bible, the more you go to church, the better off you are going to be. One study on Blood Preasure showed that people who are faith based have 40% lower chance of having high blood preasure. Another study showed that people who are good Samaritans. Who even do simple acts of kindness for their neighbor like picking up a newspaper for them or something like that. These people live 5 years longer.

Sometimes the placebo effect works? How about 33 % of the time in every double blind study that has ever been run. It is not always the same people either. If you give the same group of people a different color placebo, you will still have a 33% improvement and it will not be the exact same people as what showed improvement with the origional placebo.

There are people who claim they can get up to 60% improvement just using placebos. If they are administered in the right way. A part of that is switching from one placebo to another if the first one does not seem to work.

How many children die for a cold? Do you have the stats on that?

 

abraham · Apr 3, 2003

1st April 2003 at 10:31 PM Arikay said this in Post #15

Well, I believe one way a hydrogen atom evolves into a helium atom is that it gets compresed in a star. It becomes so compressed that a Fussion reaction occurs and this atomic reaction produces Helium.

OK, so the first hydrogen and helium atoms were formed in a compressed star?

Arikay · Apr 3, 2003

Well, not the first. However if your interested in learning about the big bang, here is a starter, http://www.umich.edu/~gs265/bigbang.htm

3rd April 2003 at 01:48 PM abraham said this in Post #34

OK, so the first hydrogen and helium atoms were formed in a compressed star?

LadyShea · Apr 3, 2003

Diarrhea is the number 1 killer of children in much of the world.

In fact, diarrhea and dehydration is still the number one killer of infants and children in Africa, Asia, and Latin America claiming almost 3.3 million lives per year. We have substantially better statistics, however even in the U.S., diarrhea kills about 500 infants and children ranging in ages of one month to four years.

Note that I emphasize that diarrhea is the cause of all these problems, not the infection that caused the diarrhea. http://www.parentsplace.com/toddlers/health/qas/0,10338,239278_100946,00.html

Arikay · Apr 3, 2003

to bad all those 3.3 million people didnt have better parents who prayed more. I mean, nice of god to kill the kids because of the parents faults.

JohnR7 · Apr 3, 2003

3rd April 2003 at 05:27 PM Arikay said this in Post #37

to bad all those 3.3 million people didnt have better parents who prayed more. 

Yes, it is to bad that more people do not use more faith. What is really a crying shame is that your so much a Godless heathen and that you do not use the faith that God gave to you to use.

Arikay · Apr 3, 2003

Yep, Yep it is too bad im a godless heathen. Hehehehehehehahahahahaha

(my GF suggested I use that awhile ago, so I finally took the suggestion )

Yep, its also too bad that I constantly donate to multiple organizations that try to help ,feed, cloth and medicate those children, to try to keep them alive. Sorry, my bad.

3rd April 2003 at 03:41 PM JohnR7 said this in Post #38

Yes, it is to bad that more people do not use more faith. What is really a crying shame is that your so much a Godless heathen and that you do not use the faith that God gave to you to use.

abraham · Apr 4, 2003

3rd April 2003 at 06:51 PM Arikay said this in Post #39

Yep,
Yep, its also too bad that I constantly donate to multiple organizations that try to help ,feed, cloth and medicate those children, to try to keep them alive. Sorry, my bad.

Arikay;

Educate those children too so that they can at least learn how to improve their way of life. Food clothing & medicine help to alleviate the immediate, but education helps to reduce it in future.

I am glad that there are organizations out there, and donors as well, who are working together to help out those in need.

But there is one ironic thing in it all - "to try to keep them alive". And yet one day, like everyone else, they too will die.

Is Dr Dino for real?

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