Inheriting the Kingdom of Heaven/God

katautumn · Jun 16, 2008

1 Corinthians 6:9-10

Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

This passage is frequently used in debates when the foes of homosexuality cannot respond to the refutation of the old passages concerning same-sex intercourse in Leviticus. It is pointed out that out of all the sexual sins God called an abomination for the Jews to engage in, this and fornication are the only two that made their way over into the New Testament. This verse is also used in a vain attempt to slander Christian gays and lesbians by labeling them as "blasphemers" and "heretics".

This verse does not withstand the test of logic and reading comprehension, however.

It should be understood that Bible scholars agree on three things about references to "The Kingdom of God":

1. The Kingdom of Heaven and the Kingdom of God are the same thing.

2. The Kingdom of God is not heaven.

3. The kingdom of God is not even in heaven.

Now, I know this may upset a few Christians who insist that the Kingdom of God is, in fact, heaven. I am certain I will be accused of not understanding the Scriptures since I am not a Christian; however, it should be known that I was a devout Christian for many years and have read the Bible, in its entirety, at least three times and participate in inter-denominational Bible studies.

The Kingdom of God will be the Millennial Kingdom from which the righteous will rule the earth after God's restoration after satan is defeated. If you read passages in Matthew & Mark you will notice that Jesus refers to The Kingdom in future-tense, as if the Kingdom has yet to be established. Jesus mostly spoke of the Kingdom of God/Heaven in the form of parables, so that the people could better understand the concept. You will also notice that in the Old Testament, heaven is always referred to as "heaven", not "the kingdom of heaven" or "the kingdom of God".

In the book of Daniel it is prophesied:

Daniel 2:44 said:
And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

It is also believed that people who are within the Kingdom will be judged and given a specific status based upon their faithfulness:

Matthew 5:19-20 said:
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

It is never stated in the Bible that one will either be a joint heir in the Kingdom of God or they will be cast into hell. If this were the case, there are many devout Christians in this world who will be sorely disappointed on the day of judgment. The Bible says in Matthew 10:23-25:

Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, "How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God!" 24The disciples were amazed at his words. But Jesus said again, "Children, how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God! 25It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

Does this passage mean that the wealthy will automatically be cast into the Lake of Fire for being prosperous while on earth? If not, then you cannot use the passage in 1 Corinthians to claim that Christian gays and lesbians will be sent to hell.

Texas Lynn · Jun 16, 2008

KatAutumn said:
Does this passage mean that the wealthy will automatically be cast into the Lake of Fire for being prosperous while on earth? If not, then you cannot use the passage in 1 Corinthians to claim that Christian gays and lesbians will be sent to hell.

That's certainly one of the many ways the passage is misused.

Joykins · Jun 16, 2008

I like the way Romans 1 reads if you keep going past the end of the chapter:

For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.

Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. Now we know that God's judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. So when you, a mere man, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God's judgment? Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness leads you toward repentance?

savedandhappy1 · Jun 16, 2008

KatAutumn said:
Now, I know this may upset a few Christians who insist that the Kingdom of God is, in fact, heaven. I am certain I will be accused of not understanding the Scriptures since I am not a Christian; however, it should be known that I was a devout Christian for many years and have read the Bible, in its entirety, at least three times and participate in inter-denominational Bible studies.

Since you have read the Bible all the way through at least three times then I'm sure you notice how the righteous/true Christian does not depart from the God. So could I ask what your definition of a devout Christian is?

Psalms 37:16-24
16 A little that a righteous man has
Is better than the riches of many wicked.
17 For the arms of the wicked shall be broken,
But the LORD upholds the righteous.
18 The LORD knows the days of the upright,
And their inheritance shall be forever.
19 They shall not be ashamed in the evil time,
And in the days of famine they shall be satisfied.
20 But the wicked shall perish;
And the enemies of the LORD,
Like the splendor of the meadows, shall vanish.
Into smoke they shall vanish away.
21 The wicked borrows and does not repay,
But the righteous shows mercy and gives.
22 For those blessed by Him shall inherit the earth,
But those cursed by Him shall be cut off.
23 The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD,
And He delights in his way.
24 Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down;
For the LORD upholds him with His hand.

Jer. 32:38-40
38 They shall be My people, and I will be their God;
39 then I will give them one heart and one way, that they may fear Me forever, for the good of them and their children after them.
40 And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from doing them good; but I will put My fear in their hearts so that they will not depart from Me.

1 John 2:18-19
18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the[c] Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

savedandhappy1 · Jun 17, 2008

KatAutumn said:
Does this passage mean that the wealthy will automatically be cast into the Lake of Fire for being prosperous while on earth? If not, then you cannot use the passage in 1 Corinthians to claim that Christian gays and lesbians will be sent to hell.

Matt. 19:23-24 (NKJV)
23 Then Jesus said to His disciples, Assuredly, I say to you that it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.
24 And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.

Where does it say the rich will automatically go to Hell or be cast into the Lake of Fire?

Let's look at the whole passage so we can see the full meaning.

Matt. 19:23-26 (KJV)
23Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.

24And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
25When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? 26But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

If we look at the whole of the scriptures we see that it is hard and impossible with men, but with God all things are possible.

The reason it is hard for a rich man to get into the Kingdom of God is because to so many the riches become their God.(idolatry)

Guess if we can use 1 Corinthians after all?

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BreadAlone · Jun 17, 2008

savedandhappy1 said:
KatAutumn said:

Does this passage mean that the wealthy will automatically be cast into the Lake of Fire for being prosperous while on earth? If not, then you cannot use the passage in 1 Corinthians to claim that Christian gays and lesbians will be sent to hell.

Matt. 19:23-24 (NKJV)
23 Then Jesus said to His disciples, Assuredly, I say to you that it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.
24 And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.

Where does it say the rich will automatically go to Hell or be cast into the Lake of Fire?

Let's look at the whole passage so we can see the full meaning.

Matt. 19:23-26 (KJV)
23Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.

24And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
25When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? 26But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

If we look at the whole of the scriptures we see that it is hard and impossible with men, but with God all things are possible.

The reason it is hard for a rich man to get into the Kingdom of God is because to so many the riches become their God.(idolatry)

Guess if we can use 1 Corinthians after all?

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katautumn · Jun 17, 2008

Savedandhappy said:
Since you have read the Bible all the way through at least three times then I'm sure you notice how the righteous/true Christian does not depart from the God.

Precisely, hence why it's futile to try and argue that gays and lesbians will be sent to hell for all eternity. Who is to say if they have made a profession of faith that they are not "true Christians"?

So could I ask what your definition of a devout Christian is?

Someone who believes that Jesus died on the cross for the atonement of man's sins and was raised from the dead and ascended to heaven. Isn't that what the Bible says a Christian is? Well, actually, the Bible never mentions the word "Christian" so that is a man-made concept; however, nowhere in the Bible does it say that in order for a person to avoid being cast into hell that they must fulfill a prescribed set of good works while on earth.

Where does it say the rich will automatically go to Hell or be cast into the Lake of Fire?

And where does it say that gays and lesbians will automatically go to hell, since we know heaven and the Kingdom of God are not the same thing?

We all know that it is virtually impossible to pass a camel through the eye of a needle. Wouldn't it stand to reason that Jesus was not saying that a rich man could not be a Christian and go to heaven when he dies, rather he will not inherit the Kingdom of God?

Guess if we can use 1 Corinthians after all?

No, really you can't. If you want to argue that gays, lesbians, adulterers, alcoholics, people involved in a relationship and engage in premarital sex, people who are jealous and those with problems controlling their anger won't inherit the Kingdom of God, fine; however, you cannot use that passage to claim that gays and lesbians will be sent to hell because of their homosexuality.

savedandhappy1 · Jun 17, 2008

KatAutumn said:
It is never stated in the Bible that one will either be a joint heir in the Kingdom of God or they will be cast into hell. If this were the case, there are many devout Christians in this world who will be sorely disappointed on the day of judgment. The Bible says in Matthew 10:23-25:

Romans 8:13-17
13For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Matt 7:21-23
21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Matt. 13:36-42
36Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.

37He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

I have to disagree with what you believe the Bible does and doesn't say, because if we look at the scriptures above, and I can get more if you like, we do see that we will be joint heirs with Christ, and that those who are not children of God will be cast into the lake of fire.

savedandhappy1 · Jun 17, 2008

KatAutumn said:
Precisely, hence why it's futile to try and argue that gays and lesbians will be sent to hell for all eternity. Who is to say if they have made a profession of faith that they are not "true Christians"?

I don't believe you understood what I was pointing out....you said you were once a devout Christian, and so I posted the scriptures that show how a Christian will not depart/leave God. It tells us how if they do depart they were never really Christians.

Because the Bible says that a "true Christian" will not willfully practice sin. The Bible says that certain people will not inherit the Kingdom of God, and that those who are not children of God are children of the devil. We are also told in the word that the devil and his children will be cast into the Lake of Fire.

KatAutumn said:

Someone who believes that Jesus died on the cross for the atonement of man's sins and was raised from the dead and ascended to heaven. Isn't that what the Bible says a Christian is? Well, actually, the Bible never mentions the word "Christian" so that is a man-made concept; however, nowhere in the Bible does it say that in order for a person to avoid being cast into hell that they must fulfill a prescribed set of good works while on earth.

Click to expand...

Thats not all of it, as we see in James 2:18-20, even the demons believe but that doesn't make them a Christian, and you are right good works can't get us into heaven.

Isaiah 59:2
2 But your sinful acts have alienated you from your God; your sins have caused him to reject you and not listen to your prayers.

Because of our sins we are separated from God, but because He loves us so much that He sent His son to died for us.

Romans 5:8
8 But God demonstrates his own love for us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Scripture also teaches that no amount of human goodness, human works, human morality, or religious activity can gain acceptance with God or get anyone into heaven. The moral man, the religious man, and the immoral and non-religious are all in the same boat. They all fall short of God’s perfect righteousness. After discussing the immoral man, the moral man, and the religious man in Romans 1:18-3:8, the Apostle Paul declares that both Jews and Greeks are under sin, that “there is no one righteous, not even one” (Rom. 3:9-10). Added to this are the declarations of the following verses of Scripture:

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9 it is not of works, so that no one can boast.

Titus 3:5-7
5 he saved us, not by works of righteousness that we have done but on the basis of his mercy, through the washing of the new birth and the renewing of the Holy Spirit,
6 whom he poured out on us in full measure through Jesus Christ our Savior.
7 And so, since we have been justified by his grace, we become heirs with the confident expectation of eternal life.

Romans 4:1-5
1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our ancestor according to the flesh, has discovered regarding this matter?
2 For if Abraham was declared righteous by the works of the law, he has something to boast about (but not before God).
3 For what does the scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”
4 Now to the one who works, his pay is not credited due to grace but due to obligation.
5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous, his faith is credited as righteousness.

We must profess and confess that we are sinners and repent of those sins/turn from our sins.

I listed the scriptures below that use the term Chrisitan in them and where the word came from.

Acts 11:26
26And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

Acts 26:26-28
26For the king knoweth of these things, before whom also I speak freely: for I am persuaded that none of these things are hidden from him; for this thing was not done in a corner.

27King Agrippa, believest thou the prophets? I know that thou believest. 28Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.

1Peter 4:16
16Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.

KatAutumn said:

And where does it say that gays and lesbians will automatically go to hell, since we know heaven and the Kingdom of God are not the same thing?

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Again, those who are not children of God are children of the devil, and we are told where those will be cast.

I could list all the so called "clobber passages" but I am sure you have already read them so there is no reason to post them again.

KatAutumn said:

We all know that it is virtually impossible to pass a camel through the eye of a needle. Wouldn't it stand to reason that Jesus was not saying that a rich man could not be a Christian and go to heaven when he dies, rather he will not inherit the Kingdom of God?

No what Jesus said was all things are possible to God, even the salvation of a rich man.

Where do you think Christians go if they do not inherit the Kingdom of God, and/or what do you think the Kingdom of God is?

KatAutumn said:

No, really you can't. If you want to argue that gays, lesbians, adulterers, alcoholics, people involved in a relationship and engage in premarital sex, people who are jealous and those with problems controlling their anger won't inherit the Kingdom of God, fine; however, you cannot use that passage to claim that gays and lesbians will be sent to hell because of their homosexuality.

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So I will guess that you are speaking of people who have SSA but do not act upon those feelings?

Are you trying to claim that those who profess to be Christians, but who continue to practice their sinful lifes will stay in heaven but will not be in the Kingdom of God?

Maybe you need to let me know what you believe heaven, hell, Kingdom of God and Lake of Fire are, so I can better understand what you are saying, sorry.

Also, we are told in Revelation that hell and those in it will be cast into the Lake of Fire after the white throne judgements are done.

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Inheriting the Kingdom of Heaven/God

katautumn

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Texas Lynn

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Joykins

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savedandhappy1

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BreadAlone

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katautumn

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savedandhappy1

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Inheriting the Kingdom of Heaven/God

Prodigal Daughter

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free Crazy Liz!

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