Inherent VS External Problems

Steezie · Dec 25, 2009

Is there a reason why so many people seem to confuse these two ideas?

I've been discussing being polyamorous with someone via PM and when I mentioned that my discovering I was poly caused a great deal of upset in my life and peers and sometimes causes problems to this day, that person essentially went "Aha! Polyamory is bad, it's causing this disruption in your life!"

The problems are coming as a result of who I am conflictng with who society thinks I should be, that is a problem caused by external forces.

On the other hand, smashing one's hand with a hammer hurts. That's an inherent problem where no matter what, it's gonna hurt.

I see this get done a lot on here, people say they got a lot of negative attention over being gay or something similar and others will say "X is causing problems in your life because X is bad." But they either don't see or willfully gloss over that X isn't the problem, it's how other people respond to X that's the problem.

If this is an attempt to demonize something that people disagree with, it would seem rather poor because the logic is faulty enough to be transparent to someone who pays attention,

pdudgeon · Dec 25, 2009

Steezie said:
Is there a reason why so many people seem to confuse these two ideas?

I've been discussing being polyamorous with someone via PM and when I mentioned that my discovering I was poly caused a great deal of upset in my life and peers and sometimes causes problems to this day, that person essentially went "Aha! Polyamory is bad, it's causing this disruption in your life!"

The problems are coming as a result of who I am conflictng with who society thinks I should be, that is a problem caused by external forces.

On the other hand, smashing one's hand with a hammer hurts. That's an inherent problem where no matter what, it's gonna hurt.

I see this get done a lot on here, people say they got a lot of negative attention over being gay or something similar and others will say "X is causing problems in your life because X is bad." But they either don't see or willfully gloss over that X isn't the problem, it's how other people respond to X that's the problem.

If this is an attempt to demonize something that people disagree with, it would seem rather poor because the logic is faulty enough to be transparent to someone who pays attention,

the interesting part about this is that your arguement doesn't hold water.

if you were to say:
" I've been discussing being psychosomatic with someone via PM and when I mentioned that my discovering I was psychosomatic caused a great deal of upset in my life and peers and sometimes causes problems to this day, that person essentially went "Aha! psychosomatic is bad, it's causing this disruption in your life!"

The problems are coming as a result of who I am conflictng with who society thinks I should be, that is a problem caused by external forces."

then it would be easier to see where the problem was, because being psychosomatic is recognized as an illness, whereas poly amorism is viewed as a 'lifestyle choice'.

the heart of the arguement here is whether this is an ethical problem or an illness caused by an inbalance in hormones, a chemical reaction in the brain, or a birth defect which happened during pregnancy.

Autumnleaf · Dec 25, 2009

Yeah, saying polyamory is okay so long as you don't get hurt is like saying playing russian roulette is just fine so long as you don't end up eating a bullet.

Especially these days, you get involved with sex with multiple partners and they have multiple partners. Pretty soon you're having sex with more people than you can imagine.

Steezie · Dec 25, 2009

pdudgeon said:
the interesting part about this is that your arguement doesn't hold water.

if you were to say:
" I've been discussing being psychosomatic with someone via PM and when I mentioned that my discovering I was psychosomatic caused a great deal of upset in my life and peers and sometimes causes problems to this day, that person essentially went "Aha! psychosomatic is bad, it's causing this disruption in your life!"

The problems are coming as a result of who I am conflictng with who society thinks I should be, that is a problem caused by external forces."

then it would be easier to see where the problem was, because being psychosomatic is recognized as an illness, whereas poly amorism is viewed as a 'lifestyle choice'.

the heart of the arguement here is whether this is an ethical problem or an illness caused by an inbalance in hormones, a chemical reaction in the brain, or a birth defect which happened during pregnancy.

Except a psychosomatic illness will manifest problems regardless of your surroundings.

Autumnleaf said:
Yeah, saying polyamory is okay so long as you don't get hurt is like saying playing russian roulette is just fine so long as you don't end up eating a bullet.

Especially these days, you get involved with sex with multiple partners and they have multiple partners. Pretty soon you're having sex with more people than you can imagine.

That was as ludicrous as it was off-topic, if you want to start a poly thread, be my guest I'd be happy to contribute. But that isnt the topic of this thread.

Autumnleaf · Dec 25, 2009

Steezie said:
That was as ludicrous as it was off-topic, if you want to start a poly thread, be my guest I'd be happy to contribute. But that isnt the topic of this thread.

If you get hammered with AIDS is it an internal or external problem?

Steezie · Dec 25, 2009

Autumnleaf said:
If you get hammered with AIDS is it an internal or external problem?

Since HIV will cause problems no matter the circumstances and with whoever is dealing with it, I wold call that an internal problem.

Autumnleaf · Dec 25, 2009

Steezie said:
Since HIV will cause problems no matter the circumstances and with whoever is dealing with it, I wold call that an internal problem.

I've been told its everyone's problem.

Steezie · Dec 25, 2009

Autumnleaf said:
I've been told its everyone's problem.

I'm not talking on a society wide scale

Autumnleaf · Dec 25, 2009

Steezie said:
I'm not talking on a society wide scale

If you do something which has a chance of harming you and people recognize that as a danger to you and care enough to bring it to your attention isn't it both internal and external?

The thing people seem to forget is that when people express concern over something you are doing it is because they care enough to talk to you about it. If they didn't care for you they wouldn't bother saying anything. They would pass by like people do to drunks in gutters all day long.

brinny · Dec 25, 2009

Steezie said:
Is there a reason why so many people seem to confuse these two ideas?

I've been discussing being polyamorous with someone via PM and when I mentioned that my discovering I was poly caused a great deal of upset in my life and peers and sometimes causes problems to this day, that person essentially went "Aha! Polyamory is bad, it's causing this disruption in your life!"

The problems are coming as a result of who I am conflictng with who society thinks I should be, that is a problem caused by external forces.

On the other hand, smashing one's hand with a hammer hurts. That's an inherent problem where no matter what, it's gonna hurt.

I see this get done a lot on here, people say they got a lot of negative attention over being gay or something similar and others will say "X is causing problems in your life because X is bad." But they either don't see or willfully gloss over that X isn't the problem, it's how other people respond to X that's the problem.

If this is an attempt to demonize something that people disagree with, it would seem rather poor because the logic is faulty enough to be transparent to someone who pays attention,

what does polyamorous mean? sorry

Wedjat · Dec 25, 2009

It means you love multiple people at the same time (as in romantic love, not platonic).

My understanding is that it refers more to the emotional aspect than the physical one.

brinny · Dec 25, 2009

Wedjat said:
It means you love multiple people at the same time (as in romantic love, not platonic).

My understanding is that it refers more to the emotional aspect than the physical one.

thanks fer answering...i had not seen the word before.

ebia · Dec 25, 2009

Just to add something else to the mix:
Here we drive on the left hand side of the road, but that's a purely arbitrary local convention. If an American, say, came here and chose to drive on the right hand side of the road that would, in your definition, be an external problem!

Social conventions can be completely arbitrary and yet it be necessary for everyone to follow them and a very real and unavoidable problem when someone does not.

Steezie · Dec 25, 2009

Autumnleaf said:
If you do something which has a chance of harming you and people recognize that as a danger to you and care enough to bring it to your attention isn't it both internal and external?

Not necessarily. Especially when that harm is only levied by other people as a reflection of social values.

brinny said:
what does polyamorous mean? sorry

Polyamorous is either being in or desiring a relationship involving multiple partners where all participants are aware of and consenting to the other persons involved.

moonkitty · Dec 26, 2009

Meh, as long as everyone involved in said relationships are ok with it, then I don't personally have a problem with it. More power to you. Someone being polyamorous doesn't hurt or threaten me so I don't see this as something I need to worry over. I don't really understand why some people get so upset over what someone else is doing in their own bedrooms.

RocketRed · Dec 27, 2009

I like this perspective a lot, actually. The X that's creating issues is completely subjective in terms of it being a source of bad or good. Obviously things like "eating paint-chips" are pretty objectively bad, but sexuality? Polyamory? If they work for you and make you happy, really give you what you need (without hurting anyone) then I don't see how it could be the source of issues in it of itself. You're right: it's the reaction and reception that's the problem. It doesn't make trouble for you itself. People that feel the need to interject do.

Social conventions change and evolve, some more easily than others. As moonkitty said, I don't understand why people get so pre-occupied with the bedroom activities of others and I think one day, such statements will be met with less consternation.

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Inherent VS External Problems

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