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Inferiority based on sex and moral implications.

Beechwell

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I doubt you'll hear anyone in here say that men are superior to women or vice versa.
Rather they'll say that men are born/designed for certain roles, and women are better at certain other roles and should therefore strive to fulfill those.

Some might say that women are naturally subserbient towards men (or a least their hasubands and fathers), but that this doesn't make her inferior, just different.
Of course the result is the same as saying women are inferior and should therefore be subservient to men: They become confined to some prescribed role and dependend on their husbands.
This might even work out for some women, as long as their husbands treat them well and fairly. But there are too many stories of women in the "good old times" who couldn't get away from their abusive husbands because of their econommic dependency; or if they could get away only to lead miserable lives with no own income and a handful of hungry kids to feed.

It is very unfortunate that religion (including Christianity) are so often used to enfore such ways of thinking. But its typical, as it works the same with hostile attitudes against foreigners (especially of another religion), or people with differing sexual preferences.
 
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Wayte

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I've really never gotten the idea of applying a universal rule to an obviously diverse group of people. It just seems utterly at odds with reality.

It's not about reality, it's about power and convenience for one group. If women are subservient, the men never have to actually think in the relationship. Why actually grow as a person when one can skew the system in their favor?
 
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E

Everlasting33

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Some men can "feel" whatever they want about women being inferior. More often than not, these men are unable to tolerate "weakness" in themselves and thus, these women are inferior due to weakness (whether its physical or emotional). They don't like either one and project it onto women.

Their feelings have more to do with themselves than of women.
 
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mpok1519

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I think this sums it up quite well; while people won't consciously admit they feel one sex is superior and the other subservient, their attitudes about different roles and how one sex is designated to be better at specific (non-biological) functions summarizes that they subconsciously have superiority/inferiority complexes related to their perceptions of the different sexes. And often yes this subconscious perception is reinforced by outer influences such as religion.
 
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Jane_the_Bane

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to a feminist, the ideal woman is a worker bee
To the Catholic, the ideal woman is a brood mare (or a queen bee, to stay within the realm of insects. And no, queen bees aren't "royalty" in the human sense; they spend their whole life popping out eggs, and that's about it).

Now, we might argue that this is an oversimplification of the Catholic position, and/or hardly reflects what ALL Catholics think. But then again, neither does your little pronouncement up there.
 
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Jane_the_Bane

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I think what many feminists fail to see to this day is that the patriarchal tradition and the gender roles that come with it are detrimental to BOTH men and women, even if the power dynamic clearly favours males.

Look at how society views "stay at home dads", and then tell me that men are not confined to a very restrictive gender role. In fact, I'd go so far as to argue that males have it MUCH worse than females these days, as masculinity is historically underdefined and has almost always simply consisted of "everything that's not female". So as women break free from the confines that have been placed upon them, men find that there are fewer and fewer "male" areas of life, which must be quite unsettling to those who think in clear-cut gender categories and feel that their masculinity is something that can be lost and must be defended.
 
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Jane_the_Bane

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I think it's not really coincidental that traditional gender roles have been challenged from the 19th century onward:

I think patriarchy and patriarchal mono- or polygamous marriage was (and is) very much tied to the conditions of the agrarian age with its issues of ownership, its reliance upon a clear distribution of labour along the lines of physical capability and so forth.

With the advent of the industrial and (even more importantly) the post-industrial age, society is changing on a fundamental level. It's no longer possible to maintain that women are physically incapable of working most jobs, and the fact that most people earn their own keep these days means that one of the most stabilizing factors in traditional marriage (economic dependency) has been eradicated.

I think things will change even more fundamentally in the next century, and new forms of social life will emerge. For now, marriage is kept alive by the concept of "love-marriage" - in itself a rather recent phenomenon; throughout history, marriage has mostly been an economic or political arrangement, often along clean lines of ownership that regarded women as the exclusive property of her husband, to be bought from her father. (The tradition of asking the bride's father for his daughter's hand still hints at that.)
 
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JadeTigress

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This is such an excellent post.
 
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Cabal

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I've gotta be honest, using the term "patriarchy" to describe the traditional "system" smacks of oversimplification.

There are obviously other factors in play here, like a class system, where not only are women discriminated against but the upper class males manipulate and sometimes outright coerce the lower class males (for the most part) into war.

Ok, maybe the term "patriarchy" has been broadened somewhat over the years, but the gendered language suggests to me that (a) gender is still presumed to be the main issue here and not anything else, and (b) that only in a male-dominated system would these unfair situations arise, neither of which necessarily seem true. I personally prefer the term "kyriarchy", which essentially refers to any form of institutionalised repression - not just sexism, but racism and economic injustice also.
 
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jayem

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Off topic a bit here. Actually I think women are superior to men in many--maybe most-- areas. In such factors as longevity, resistance to infection (estrogen facilitates the immune system), educational attainment (at least in the US, as of now), stress tolerance, emotional maturity, psychological resilience, and social connectivity, women have it all over us. Men still excel in average physical strength, and mathematical ability, I believe.

It's been claimed that women are becoming more attractive. That's obviously a subjective, culture-dependent trait, but natural selection may be working faster in the female population than the male. They're evolving to be hotter, while we ugly mugs are stuck as we are. (Though male preferences in choosing mates is a likely driving force.)

Women getting more beautiful, say scientists - Telegraph
 
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SpiritualAntiseptic

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So what are we to make of the last fifty years versus the last 100,000-2,000,000?

I just have a hard time buying in anything other than the fact that there are gender roles because men and women are different by nature, according to evolution or God.

The bodies are different, the behaviors are different. They both were useful for their roles in hunter gather and agrarian societies. Men can't produce milk naturally like a pregnant woman can. It seems to be that evolution or God is suggesting that women were intended to raise young children.

Men say fewer words than women, useful for hunting. Men have a large body and muscle mass, useful for hunting and farming.

I think the great flaw of modern society seems to be its ability to ignore the obvious in a world of sophisticated technology.
 
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Wayte

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I think it's less a matter of ignoring, and more a mater of overcoming.
What's the point of advancement if silly little instincts(and the limits/roles that come with them) are gonna stop us?
 
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Jane_the_Bane

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I think the great flaw of modern society seems to be its ability to ignore the obvious in a world of sophisticated technology.

It's not a flaw, it's social progress. Technology has enabled BOTH men and women to grow beyond the animal constraints that have greatly reduced our potential throughout most of history and pre-history.

Nature only describes an "is"-state, not an "ought". "Nature" (here used to describe the default-state without human interference, though that's natural, too, of course) hasn't intended for us to survive an inflamed, rupturing appendix, not to mention a myocardian infarction or even some germs that are much more fatal in the absence of antibiotics.

Now, I think progress isn't limited to our physical health and well-being - there's no reason why it shouldn't also extend to our socio-cultural, "spiritual" existence. Quite the contrary: I'd say that it's a great opportunity to grow and mature much further.
 
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