• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Inequality: Should the government be concerned about it?

Creech

Senior Veteran
Apr 7, 2012
3,490
263
New York
✟30,556.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Single
Income inequality isn't much of a problem, as long as the working classes receive fair treatment and are not treated as simple tools by corporate power. I believe the bourgeois classes are the ones initiating tensions among the classes, but the solution certainly is not any form of equality, but an end to corporatism, especially in government.
 
Upvote 0

Ken-1122

Newbie
Jan 30, 2011
13,574
1,792
✟233,210.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private

That makes no sense at all. In reality, the more money the middle income makes; the more the super rich can make because they will have more people buying the products they are invested in. Can you give an example of a billionaire preventing someone from making more money?

Ken
 
Upvote 0

doubtingmerle

I'll think about it.
Site Supporter
Jan 28, 2003
9,969
2,521
Pennsylvania
Visit site
✟534,373.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
When has the Government ever taken positive steps to limit income inequality, and how did they do it?

Social Security--worked very well.
Progressive Income Tax--worked very well.
Minimum wage laws--worked very well.
Support for unions--worked very well.
Food Stamps--worked very well.
Unemployment insurance--worked very well.
Medicare--worked very well.
Medicaid--worked very well.

Do you want me to continue?
 
Upvote 0

Ken-1122

Newbie
Jan 30, 2011
13,574
1,792
✟233,210.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Only if the government is not a responsible steward of public monies. Most often that is indeed the case, but that's not inherent in the tax structure.
Responsible or not, the more money the Government gets from taxes, the more money they can spend on the needy.

Ken
 
Upvote 0

Albion

Facilitator
Dec 8, 2004
111,127
33,263
✟584,002.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married

You got all the approved jargon in there somewhere or other, I see.
 
Upvote 0

doubtingmerle

I'll think about it.
Site Supporter
Jan 28, 2003
9,969
2,521
Pennsylvania
Visit site
✟534,373.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
As I said above, there is a role for government. I'd never deny that. But neither do I subscribe to the naïve idea that if a little government is good, we ought to make it as big and controlling as possible.
Nobody here subscribes to the naïve idea that we ought to make government as big and controlling as possible. Nobody. Nobody! So why bring it up?

Oh yes, we are. While you may point to some changes in the tax brackets, the overall tax burden on most people has gone up, not down, and income inequality has gotten worse. That's a fact.

Actually its not a fact that the overall tax burden has gone up. Last year we paid 16.7% of the GNP as federal taxes, which is quite low by historical standards. And in 2009 and 2010 we were at record lows since WWII. See Historical Source of Revenue as Share of GDP . So say what you will about the economy, you cannot blame it on a tax increase.

And no, I was not merely pointing out "some changes in the tax brackets". I was pointing out that through most of the twentieth century there was a much higher tax burden on the richest Americans then there is now. That is just one instance where we are not doing "the same and more" to address inequality as we did in the past. There are many other examples we could use of how government did more to address inequality in the past then it does now.
 
Upvote 0

Albion

Facilitator
Dec 8, 2004
111,127
33,263
✟584,002.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married

Once again, we have a response that depends upon altering what the other person wrote in order to be able to rebut it. I didn't say "federal" tax burden, but as they say...nice try. You really did work it in almost unnoticed.

The tax burden from all units of government has indeed increased in recent years, whether you will admit it or not.
 
Upvote 0

Ken-1122

Newbie
Jan 30, 2011
13,574
1,792
✟233,210.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private

We live in a different world now where companies are global. It is easy for companies to relocate overseas where labor is cheap than it was years ago; thus the American worker now has to compete against cheap labor in China, Malaysia, and other places. Plus you have so many regulations in place today that were not during the 60’s and 70’s (remember how bad pollution was during that time?) and that makes it more attractive for companies to move overseas where regulations are scarce; so you have less jobs for the american worker.
Then you have the companies who are selling to countries like China, India, and other places where there was not a market during the 60’s and 70’s, so the Corporations are making record profits because of increased sales via business practices that benefit the bottom line instead of the line worker; and the people invested in those companies will share in the profits of those companies, while the American worker has to compete against cheap overseas labor, thus his wages remain low.

Union support was a lot stronger back then but I think that is mostly the fault of the Union. Many union members resent seeing their union dues going to support a political candidate they disagree with.

Schools are different; I believe students of today don’t need to try as hard as they did before. Many schools today won’t even expel a student no matter how destructive he is because studies have shown when he returns he is worse than when he left. Many of the schools in some of the poor neighborhoods allow students to complete school and they can barely speak english.

Social Security is almost bankrupt because we have many of the baby boomers retiring now and the smaller families of today are unable to support them.

All I am trying to say is; I think the problems we have today is a little more complicated than income inequality.

Ken
 
Upvote 0

Ken-1122

Newbie
Jan 30, 2011
13,574
1,792
✟233,210.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
But all of those things goes on today! He was talking about steps the Government was taking before, that limits income inequality; that they don't do anymore.

Also how does Social Security, Unemployment Insurance, Medicare and Medicaid make income more equal? This stuff is taken from the workers paychecks, making them smaller.

Ken
 
Upvote 0

doubtingmerle

I'll think about it.
Site Supporter
Jan 28, 2003
9,969
2,521
Pennsylvania
Visit site
✟534,373.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat

What is your source for that claim?

The federal tax is the highest tax people pay, and it is now relatively low compared with previous years. So there would need to be a significant increase in state and local taxes to make today's total tax be significantly higher than past tax rates. Please give me your source.

And also, please give me your source that half the land in the west belongs to the Federal government. I dispute that claim also.
 
Upvote 0

doubtingmerle

I'll think about it.
Site Supporter
Jan 28, 2003
9,969
2,521
Pennsylvania
Visit site
✟534,373.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat

I was addressing a specific question: "When has the Government ever taken positive steps to limit income inequality". I answered that question.

Social Security, Unemployment Insurance, Medicare and Medicaid involve more than deductions from paychecks. They involve real help to real people in need.
 
Upvote 0

doubtingmerle

I'll think about it.
Site Supporter
Jan 28, 2003
9,969
2,521
Pennsylvania
Visit site
✟534,373.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
All I am trying to say is; I think the problems we have today is a little more complicated than income inequality.

I agree. We have a lot of problems today. Income inequality is just one of them.

But I still think we should address that problem.
 
Upvote 0

KarateCowboy

Classical liberal
Site Supporter
Aug 6, 2004
13,390
2,109
✟140,932.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private

Social security, medicare, medicaid, unfair income tax, and food stamps do not work well at all. Food stamps are rife with fraud. Unfair income taxes are, well, unfair. Social security is a waste of money for those putting in to it. Medicare and Medicaid are huge messes.
 
Upvote 0

MachZer0

Caught Between Barack and a Hard Place
Mar 9, 2005
61,058
2,302
✟94,109.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
I said nothing about you whatsoever
 
Upvote 0

MachZer0

Caught Between Barack and a Hard Place
Mar 9, 2005
61,058
2,302
✟94,109.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
It makes them dependent on government forcing others to meet their wants and needs.
 
Upvote 0

MachZer0

Caught Between Barack and a Hard Place
Mar 9, 2005
61,058
2,302
✟94,109.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Responsible or not, the more money the Government gets from taxes, the more money they can spend on the needy.

Ken
In other words, it's all about income redistribution. Forcibly taking money from the person who earned it and giving it to the person who didn't earn it
 
Upvote 0

Albion

Facilitator
Dec 8, 2004
111,127
33,263
✟584,002.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
What is your source for that claim?
If you aren't aware of that, you shouldn't be involved in this discussion. Almost every state has upped its income tax rate (not progressive) in r34recent years. Various excise taxes have been imposed and old ones, some dating to "temporary" taxes imposed during WWII not repealed. Cities across the country that never had a local income tax now have one. And on it goes. As the federal rate has been reduced in recent years, a number of tax breaks, deductions and exemptions have also been eliminated as a part of "tax simplification" while state and local taxes, and federal excise taxes have been raised, along with various fees placed upon businesses. California, Illinois, and New York are notorious for such taxing that hundreds of thousands of residents have left for this reason. No, the balance has NOT been to reduce the tax burden.

The federal tax is the highest tax people pay, and it is now relatively low compared with previous years. So there would need to be a significant increase in state and local taxes to make today's total tax be significantly higher than past tax rates.
You are guessing, I see.

And also, please give me your source that half the land in the west belongs to the Federal government. I dispute that claim also.
Oh brother. You're disputing it although it's news to you? Hmmm. This is NOT obscure information! This was reported widely as recently as that incident involving the Nevada rancher who got into trouble for pasturing his cattle on federal land but was resisting paying the fee. I'm sure you recall that.
 
Upvote 0

Ken-1122

Newbie
Jan 30, 2011
13,574
1,792
✟233,210.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
But they take a larger percentage from the middle class than the super rich! So how does this lessen income inequality? Seems to me of anything it adds to it.

Ken
 
Upvote 0

Ken-1122

Newbie
Jan 30, 2011
13,574
1,792
✟233,210.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
I agree. We have a lot of problems today. Income inequality is just one of them.

But I still think we should address that problem.
Again; I don't see how income inequality is a problem. Seems to me, low, or lack of wages is the problem.

Ken
 
Upvote 0