Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my names sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.
But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.
Or...are you the one to only see those passages that support your skewed view?Any others want to deny the crystal clear teaching of scripture and pretend that they're more spiritual than everyone else..?
Or is ebedmelech the only self professed spiritual elite one here?
All superior spiritual insights welcome..
Or...are you the one to only see those passages that support your skewed view?
Notice Old Timer didn't address one passage. Why? He simply can't deal with passages that present a problem to his view...he passes it by.
Don't forget he also resorts to insults instead of reasoned, logical arguments.
He pretends to be so exactingly following scripture, while proposing the ridiculous; that when Jesus comes he will reign for a 1000 years in Israel with billions of immortal saints while the rest of the world continues on as presently.
And he pokes fun at our ideas?
ebedmelech said in post 73:
Jesus said in John 4:21-24
21 Jesus *said to her, “Woman, believe Me, an hour is coming when neither in this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father.
22 You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews.
23 But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.
24 God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”
ebedmelech said in post 73:
As we read Jesus in the gospels we see him repeatedly speaking in spiritual terms and those who were the "wooden literal" hearers missed what he was saying.
A classic example is in the "breado of life" discourse of John 6 where Jesus said:
John 6:51:
51 I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread also which I will give for the life of the world is My flesh.”
ebedmelech said in post 74:
You can keep saying that, however once again Jesus said it very clearly in Matthew 25 both grups are there for separation...the sheep and the goats.
ebedmelech said in post 76:
As I speak of spiritual things, they are the things that the apostles taught in scripture, being filled with the Spirit, walking in the Spirit, and comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
Yes it was. What Jesus was perfectly saying is it's not about a mountain or a temple. Jesus was telling the woman it was about having a spiritual connection to God. How you could miss Jesus is speaking of the Holy Spirit being in His people which would happen at Pentecost?John 4:21-24 wasn't contradicting the fact Christians could worship God in spirit and truth in the 2nd temple building in Jerusalem (Luke 24:53, Acts 2:46, Acts 22:17), but meant that under the New Covenant, up until Jesus' 2nd coming, people wouldn't be required to go to a temple building in Jerusalem to worship God like they had been required to do at least 3 times a year under the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Deuteronomy 16:16; 2 Chronicles 8:12-16). Only after Jesus' 2nd coming (Zechariah 14:3-4), during his millennial reign (Zechariah 14:9, Revelation 20:4-6), will people be required to go once a year to worship the returned Jesus in a temple building in Jerusalem (Zechariah 14:16-21).
No it doesn't. That would be the nonsense of the Eucharist and "real presence" doctrine. That's not what Jesus is relating to at all. This entire discourse is figurative language of receiving Christ. Jesus is showing Himself to be the Passover Lamb. The Lord's supper is not instituted here...this is salvation Bible2. It's very clear in what Jesus tells the disciples at John 6:63:John 6:51-57 shows that all believers for their ultimate salvation need to eat the bread of communion (Matthew 26:26) and drink the wine of communion (Matthew 26:27-29), which actually become the body and blood of Jesus (1 Corinthians 11:27-30) in some spiritual manner (John 6:63).
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Nope. This is really bad reading of scripture. ALL THE NATIONS...but then Jesus you're separating the sheep from the goats??? Jesus said "My sheep hear my voice"...can you get that?Matthew 25:31 doesn't mean that Matthew 25:32-46 (just as 2 Peter 3:10a doesn't mean that 2 Peter 3:10b) will happen immediately at Jesus' 2nd coming, only that it will happen sometime subsequent to his 2nd coming, at the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11-15), after the future millennium and subsequent events (Revelation 20:7-15).
Matthew 25:32-46 refers to when the "nations" will be judged by their works at the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:12-13), whereas at the 2nd coming, Jesus will judge only those in the church (Psalms 50:3-5, cf. Mark 13:27; Matthew 25:19-30). Also, Matthew 25:41,46 refers to when the unsaved of all times, whether Jews or Gentiles, will be sent into the everlasting punishment of the lake of fire and brimstone at the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:15), whereas at the 2nd coming only the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") and his False Prophet will be cast into the lake of fire (Revelation 19:20). The saved "sheep" at the sheep/goat judgment will include those, whether Jews or Gentiles, who will become believers during the millennium (Isaiah 66:19-21). Matthew 25:34 refers to obedient believers inheriting the kingdom of the Father on the new earth in New Jerusalem, the Father's house (Revelation 21:1-7, John 14:2).
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Once again you've missed the boat Bible2. The whole idea here is understanding God's word by the Holy Spirit. The apostle makes the point...watch this:1 Corinthians 2:13 doesn't mean Spirit-inspired prophecy can't refer to physical things, just as, for example, John 6:63b doesn't mean Jesus' Spiritual words can't refer to physical things. For example, his words in Mark 10:33-34 were fulfilled physically.
Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my names sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.
But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.
It's really not real hard Old Timer. You see you have to follow scripture line upon line (something you're apparently negligent to do).Ok, maybe they're right. It's at least worth a listen..
Let's let them explain what this really means.. At least then everyone will be getting both views.
So here goes.. From Matthew 19..
So again, for the benefit of anyone following and who might be interested in both views.. Let's let any view come forth and people can think on it for themselves.
It's really not real hard Old Timer. You see you have to follow scripture line upon line (something you're apparently negligent to do).
Paul affirms this in Ephesians 2:20:
20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone,
This is again affirmed in Revelation 21:
14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundation stones, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
This is why one must SEARCH the scriptures to see HOW the application is to be made!
The apostles are the fondation of the church! This is why Jesus made the statement of Matthew 19:27, 28.
No one is denying what Christ has said, but as He revealed through His apostles in the writng of scripture, THEY reveal to us how this applies.
In 1 Corinthians 4:9 Paul said this:
9 For, I think, God has exhibited us apostles last of all, as men condemned to death; because we have become a spectacle to the world, both to angels and to men.
Again, Jesus hand selected these men and appointed them to build His church, wrought miricles through them by the Holy Spirit, to affirm them as His. Gave revelation to them by the Holy Spirit to write the scriptures. All of them but John were martyred...Jesus is simply telling Peter His reward and theirs...and no one has denied it.
So your argument is with yourself, and mainly because you don't have a true grasp of the totality of scripture.
Perhaps one day you will... when you "get a grip...
Try reading what I say instead of intentionally being arbitrary...and you might get a clue.So you're saying that you do believe that The Lord shall sit upon the throne of his glory when he comes in his glory along with the twelve Apostles sitting upon thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel?
Or not?
Try reading what I say instead of intentionally being arbitrary...and you might get a clue.
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
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