In need of RCC appologetic answers

AeonJ said:

Are Protestants also apart of the one true catholic (universal) church?

If yes I have more questions...

how?

Aren't Protestants illegitament and founded by heretics?

How is it possible for there to be division in the one true catholic (universal) church?

Thx in adv for any answers and I hope it's ok that I asked them in your forum (I didn't want the thread derailed)

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No, they are not part of the one true Church as they deny fundamental truths (we as Catholics view) as essential to true Christianity. We view protestants as seperated brothers who have a valid baptism but are still not fully united to the Church.
It is also important to take note that when I say Church I mean the visible Church, which is the Catholic Church with both its sinners and its saints. The invisible Church can (theoretically) containCatholics, non-Catholic Christians, and even non-Christians (remember, theoretically).
We entrust all those who die outside of the Church to the mercy of God. It is VERY important to note that we do not say that any person is in Hell, because that is not for us to decide. Rather, we can say that certain beliefs are true or untrue.

click here>>http://www.christianforums.com/t5747853-protestantism-at-risk-of-heresy.html

See post #3

AeonJ said:

Are Protestants also apart of the one true catholic (universal) church?

If yes I have more questions...

how?

Aren't Protestants illegitament and founded by heretics?

How is it possible for there to be division in the one true catholic (universal) church?

Thx in adv for any answers and I hope it's ok that I asked them in your forum (I didn't want the thread derailed)

Click to expand...

Only those are members of the one true Church, the Catholic Church, if they have been Baptized and are united in the one faith. Baptism joins one to the Church, and the sins of heresy, schism or apostacy separate one. This would generally exclude Protestants. HOWEVER, if a Baptized non-Catholic person is not culpable for those sins (they aren't united in one faith through no fault of theirs, ie there's no malice, obstinance, calrelessness, reasons of personal gain, pride, etc.) and they love Jesus with their whole heart, mind, and soul we say they have an implicit desire to be united in faith and therefore are truly members of the Church. This communion, however, is imperfect because it lacks that visible unity Christ desires. We tend not to charge non-Catholics with the sins of separation if they have never been Catholic in the first place.

So in sum, a Baptized Protestant is a member of the Church of Christ unless God judges them to be culpable for remaining outside visible communion.

(as an aside, such faith and desire can also cover for a lack of Baptism, if the person is lacking it through no fault of theirs).

I hope that helps!

AeonJ said:

Are Protestants also apart of the one true catholic (universal) church?

If yes I have more questions...

how?

Aren't Protestants illegitament and founded by heretics?

How is it possible for there to be division in the one true catholic (universal) church?

Thx in adv for any answers and I hope it's ok that I asked them in your forum (I didn't want the thread derailed)

Click to expand...

Disclaimer: There are multiple definitions for the word "church". So the answer to your question will depend a great deal on which definition we speak of at a given time.

If you know anything about psychology, you'll appreciate the analogy of the Church currently having multiple personality disorder (now known as dissociative identity disorder).

The non-clinical definition of MPD is someone who has one "core" personality (the "real" them) and multiple "break" or "spin off" personalities. In one sense, all the personalities are that one person. In another, only the core personality is. The rest need healing and reintegration. So, it is with "the Church" today.

Jesus only has one Church. (As the Bible says, "On faith, one hope, one baptism".) In one sense of the word "church", everyone who has His Spirit inside them is a part of it. In another sense, the only "real" members of "the Church" are those who are still in the core: Catholicism. The rest are "imperfectly united" to the core and these rifts, these deep wounds, need healing.

....Probably not the angle you or anyone else was expecting by way of a response to your question, but, if I worded it half way decently, it may help...

???

Greg

Now. For a less "esoteric" response...

AeonJ said:

Are Protestants also apart of the one true catholic (universal) church?

Click to expand...

Generally speaking, yes.

If yes I have more questions...

how?

Aren't Protestants illegitament and founded by heretics?

Click to expand...

Protestant "churches" are illegitimate, yes. Protestant Christians who maintain their faith in Christ to the best of the knowledge they have about him are not, no. It's kind of like illegitimate children. Children conceived out of wedlock have been said to be "illegitimate" (referring to the manner in which they are conceived), but this true fact does not throw the baby out with the bath water and remove their humanity from them at the same time. In spite of their "illegitimacy" in one sense, they remain entitled to "legitimacy" in another.

Not a perfect analogy, but hopefully one that helps. The good news about Christian rifts is that they're not a "done deal". They, unlike the "illegitimacy" of the child above, can be healed and overcome.

Think of a branch that breaks part way off of a tree. It's still part of the tree and will remain alive to the degree that it is still united to the tree and able to receive sustenance. But think of how limited that ability will be when part of the branch is severed from that which holds it together and has generated it to begin with.

How is it possible for there to be division in the one true catholic (universal) church?

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It's possible when one man takes upon himself the authority given by Christ to another.

Greg