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This Doctrine is very Old goes back to the beginning of Christianity. It's was never put down as official dogma because it was rarely ever disputted. When the Pope had established this Dogma it was either to silence some heresies or it was that the Pope decided there was enough research done and decided to declare it.
The feast of the Immaculate Conception, celebrated on December 8, was established as a universal feast in 1476 by Pope Sixtus IV.
The Immaculate Conception was solemnly defined as a dogma by Pope Pius IX in his constitution Ineffabilis Deus, on December 8, 1854.
So almost 400 years after the declaration of the Feast did the dogma finaly get defined.
But it goes back further then that....
Eadmer, or Edmer (10601124), was an English historian, theologian, and ecclesiastic. Eadmer's theological works include the "De conceptione Sanctae Mariae", a tract of much importance for the development of the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception
It goes all the way back to the Early Church Fathers after him. As far back as 150 A.D.
Justin Martyr [100-165 A.D.] Dialogue with Trypho Chapters 48
[Jesus] became man by the Virgin so that the course which was taken by disobedience in the beginning through the agency of the serpent might be also the very course by which it would be put down. Eve, a virgin and undefiled, conceivedthe word of the serpent and bore disobedience and death.But the Virgin Mary received faith and joy when the angel Gabriel announced to her the glad tidings that the Spirit of the Lord would come upon her and the power of the Most High would overshadow her, for which reason the Holy Onebeing born of her is the Son of God. And she replied 'Be it done unto me according to your word' [Luke 1:38](Dialogue with Trypho the Jew 100 [A.D. 155])
Yes this letter was written back in 155 A.D. Here Justin Martyr compairs Mary to Eve. Mary by many of the Early Church fathers viewed her as the new Eve. They Compare Mary to Eve before Eve was lead into sin.
Irenaeus of Lyons [120-180 AD] Adversus Haereses Book III
"Consequently, then, Mary the Virgin is found to be obedient,saying, 'Behold, O Lord, your handmaid; be it done to me according to your word.' Eve, however, was disobedient, and, when yet a virgin, she did not obey. Just as she, who wasthen still a virgin although she had Adam for a husband-for in paradise they were both naked but were not ashamed; for,having been created only a short time, they had no understanding of the procreation of children, and it was necessary that they first come to maturity before beginning to multiply; having become disobedient, was made the cause of death for herself and for the whole human race; so also Mary, betrothed to a man but never the less still a virgin, being obedient, was made the cause of salvation for herself and for the whole human race. . . . Thus, the knot of Eve's disobedience was loosed by the
obedience of Mary. What the virgin Eve had bound in unbelief, the Virgin Mary loosed through faith" (Against Heresies 3:22:24 [A.D. 189])
In 189 A.D. we have Irenaeus of Lyons going into further detail on Mary and her obedience to the Lord again compairing her with Eve.
St. Ambrose did some studies on De institutione virginis et sanctae Mariae virginitate perpetua ad Eusebium (On the Birth of the Virgin and the Perpetual Virginity of Mary)
When it comes down to Dogma and Doctrine The church compares every new idea or reworked ideas to scripture and tradition and then after enough research is done on a topic it is deemed as a heresy or dogma. The church has almost 2000 years of history of great theologians that dedicated their entire lives to studing every aspect of the Christian Faith. There is no need to rediscover the wheel only to futher define the truth as it is revealed to us through out the ages.
And I guess it doesn't matter if the popes are Holy Spirit lead or not, sufficient for sound interpretation/insight. Sorry, I can't buy into your 'blind' acceptance of his judgment simply because history is repleat with church corruption straight to the top.
The difference is, IVE NEVER USED THE WORD ARIANRomish
Pronunciation: \ˈrō-mish\ Function:adjective Date:1531 usually disparaging : roman catholic
Romish is not a compliment, certainly, but it is no more or less of a slight than "Arian."
Evidence?
Roman Inquisition??
In 1542, Pope Paul III established a permanent congregation staffed with cardinals and other officials, whose task was to maintain and defend the integrity of the faith and to examine and proscribe errors and false doctrines. This body, the Congregation of the Holy Office, now called the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, part of the Roman Curia, became the supervisory body of local Inquisitions.
The Pope appoints one of the cardinals to preside over the meetings. There are usually ten other cardinals on the Congregation, as well as a prelate and two assistants all chosen from the Dominican Order. The Holy Office also has an international group of consultants, experienced scholars of theology and canon law, who advise it on specific questions.
Arguably the most famous case tried by the Roman Inquisition was that of Galileo Galilei in 1633 . (Galileo died a devout Catholic dispite being tried by the Inquisition.
Because of Rome's power over the Papal States, Roman Inquisition activity continued until the mid-1800s.
In 1908 the Holy Office of the Inquisition was changed to The Sacred Congregation of the Holy Office. In 1965 the name was changed again to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.
In the year 2000, Pope John Paul II called for an "Inquisition Symposium", and opened the Vatican to 30 external historians. What they found discounted many exaggerated facts previously believed. It was learned that more women accused of witchcraft died in the Protestant countries than under the Inquisition. For example,the Inquisition burned 59 women in Spain, 36 in Italy and 4 in Portugal, while in Europe civil justice put to trial close to 100,000 women; 50,000 of them were burned, 25,000 in Germany, during the XVI century by the followers of Martin Luther.
England originated with the English Reformation under Henry VIII. The Act of Supremacy of 1534 declared the English crown to be 'the only supreme head on earth of the Church in England' in place of the pope. Any act of allegiance to the latter was considered treason because the papacy claimed both spiritual and political power over its followers. It was under this Act that saints Thomas More and John Fisher were executed and became martyrs to the Roman Catholic faith.
KKK
Indiana's Klansmen represented a wide cross section of society: they were not disproportionately urban or rural, nor were they significantly more or less likely than other members of society to be from the working class, middle class, or professional ranks. Klansmen were Protestants, of course, but they cannot be described exclusively or even predominantly as fundamentalists. In reality, their religious affiliations mirrored the whole of white Protestant society, including those who did not belong to any church.
The Woman's Christian Temperance Union (WCTU) is the oldest continuing non-sectarian women's organization in the U.S. and worldwide. Founded by Frances Willard in Fredonia, New York in 1874, the group spearheaded the crusade for prohibition.
Point is some popes may have been money hungry but so are alot of people... some Popes may have been sinners but so are a lot of other people. No Pope has or ever will be able to do anything to effect church dogma or doctrine because it is protected by God (and there is to many things that have to be done inorder to invoke the papal power that would make it impossible. Unless God willing.)
This thread is about Mary the mother of our Lord and savior.... I was just showing things that pre bible chrisitians were researching and developing the doctrine to show Mary's immaculate conception from at least 100 years after Christ's ressurection. So unless the church fell into err from the death of the last apostle... Would just go to prove that Christianity is false making Islam or even Mormonism right.
The church's authority is actually at the base of the church not at the top.
Just like a good shepard the Pope walks behind his heard and makes sure they are pointed in the right direction to salvation. Any pope or man who trys to be the First shall be last and the Last shall be first.
.The church's authority is actually at the base of the church not at the top
BLASPHEMY..."God, Who made the sun, also made the moon. The moon does not take away from the brilliance of he sun. The moon would only be a burnt-out cinder floating in the immensity of space were it not for the sun. All its light is reflected from the sun. The Blessed Mother reflects her Divine Son; without Him, she is nothing. With Him, she is the Mother of Men."
"On dark nights we are grateful for the moon; when we see it shining, we know there must be a sun. So in this dark night of the world when men turn their backs on Him Who is the Light of the World, we look to Mary to guide their feet while we await the sunrise." - Bishop Fulton J. Sheen
BLASPHEMY...
Psa 105:4
Seek the LORD and His strength; Seek His face continually.
blasphemy is believing the (work of the) Holy Spirit is evilBLASPHEMY...
Psa 105:4
Seek the LORD and His strength; Seek His face continually.
I don't think blasphemy is limited to that.blasphemy is believing the (work of the) Holy Spirit is evil
blasphemy is believing the (work of the) Holy Spirit is evil
BLASPHEMY...
Psa 105:4
Seek the LORD and His strength; Seek His face continually.
Mary's assistance is not needed.
Read it again
"On dark nights we are grateful for the moon; when we see it shining, we know there must be a sun. So in this dark night of the world when men turn their backs on Him Who is the Light of the World, we look to Mary to guide their feet while we await the sunrise." - Bishop Fulton J. Sheen
This is talking about men who have turned their back on Jesus. They are not seeking His face continually. They are not seeking His strength.
we look to Mary to guide their feet while we await the sunrise
We look to Mary to guide their feet. This is speaking of Mary interceding for those men who have turned their back on Jesus. She is praying for them. We are looking to Mary to guide their feet because she is praying with us and for us to Jesus on behalf of those men who have tuned their backs on Jesus.
We wait for the sunrise because we are looking for the Lord continually.
Peace
blasphemy is believing the (work of the) Holy Spirit is evil
I don't think blasphemy is limited to that.
What would call attributing His work and authority to a person?
The reliance on Mary is the part that is blasphemy.
Are you praying to me too? You sure do cover all the bases!
What you who pray to saints seem to ignore is that there is a distinct difference between saints on earth praying with and for each other and what you claim to do between saints on earth and saints in Heaven.Rememeber that next time you ask someone else to pray with you and asks you to pray with them and tell them the samething.
Say to them "your reliance on me is not needed pray to Jesus yourself." And next you ask someone to pray with and for you remember that their reliance is not needed and pray to Jesus yourself.
Because otherwise you would be commiting blaphemy.
Peace
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