I'm thinking about

"he's very passive"....."oh well, I can't change you"


We really don't have alot of information here, so let me just ask you some things with absolutely nothing but concern.

Was he a "passive" individual in the beginning?
Truthfully, what do you think your past ex's would say about you when describing your personality in decision making or expectations of them or in the relationship?

I keep seeing you state that he is too passive as if it was not his norm in the "better" days, along with the statement you quoted him saying...and it makes me wonder...

Do you think, that you might be a little overbearing/pushy or controlling as in wanting things done your way? Please, don't take this as a bashing. It's not. I'm trying to put myself in his shoes from what you are saying and possibly seeing what his issues with you might be. If he hasn't always been a passive personality, maybe he has succumed to this because he feels he has no other option to keep you from blowing up? Sometimes people can become this way because they have given up on trying to be an equal partner in a relationship. They have not been allowed to, or have not been given the respect as the head of the household and eventually quit caring to even try. Granted, there are times when they don't deserve it or have abused that role......but it doesn't sound that way with him from what your saying. He hasn't cheated. He hasn't been abusive. He is neglecting and not participating. Why? Have you looked at yourself as maybe being a major factor? Do you think some of this could be on your end as in fault? And the fault is alot of times unintentional. Really think on this. What if you went to him in a different manner than what you have been trying. Sometimes we think we have been pretty rational, calm, and caring...but we don't always perceive ourselves the way others do. I read your post and I get the feeling that he feels backed into a corner and has given up, and has for a long time. Do you think you honestly give him the opportunities to feel like the man that he is? Do you think he feels you treat him as someone inferior to you? Do you think you have a tendency to want things your way and get upset when they dont? Do you think he is this nonparticipating partner now because he feels that no matter what he says or thinks, that you will eventually get your way? I may be totally off base, but your'e asking for opinions.

I just posted on another thread that we are responsible for our own actions and that the other spouse is not ultimately the only one to fix the other's problems, but I don't feel it's fair to never look at ourselves at some point to see if we are the problem. It's never one sided. Never. There may be different degrees of fault, but rarely just one sided.

Divorce is a very ugly thing, and it will have effects on everyone involved for years to come. Think long and hard on this decision, and that means looking inwardly as well. Sometimes it takes laying down some of our pride and admitting our own faults to make the other feel comfortable enough to open up as well. Being that there are soo many more damaging things he could be doing, I would think it's still worth a shot for you to try and put yourself in his shoes for a while. It might not work. It might not be you......but down the road you definately dont want to look back and have any regrets or wonder..."what if"

Prayers for you, him, and the family

Why are there only two choices(split or stay)? Sry, I haven't been on here in awhile and I'm not familiar with your recent situation. But, from what I've read on this post...here's what I have to say - GO AHEAD AND BE DRASTIC ! Do something that would make you feel better. Do something toward becoming a confident, independent woman!

I suspect you are home with the kids. Am I right? You need to put yourself on your priority list! Join a bible study, take a weekly girls night out, go to counseling by yourself(don't wait for him). Do something for you.

Tell your husband that he needs to do his part with the kids and you need to do something that takes care of you. If he won't step up, find a friend or relative to "be the dad" and move forward. Do something small like cut/dye your hair, or join a gym(or workout at home, or run down the street). Do something big like get a job, join a group/club, make new friends, start a bible study, go on a mission trip, take a trip anywhere! Make your life what you want it to be. If your husband wants to join you in your new life, great. If not, his loss.

You still might end up divorced someday. But, you need to start living the way you want to before you file for divorce without cause. You will be glad you did, and you will be able to face your children without guilt because you did everything ELSE that you could think of FIRST. You might even seperate/move away from him. But, you don't need to file at that point. What's the hurry to jump right to filing? You need to do the work first.

It took me two and a half years after my husband left us and cheated, without any desire to change his new lifestyle, before I finally filed. When the nasty threats and life-endangering actions were directed toward me - I knew it was time. I had already thought long and hard about it, made a plan, worked the plan, and got my life together (for me) first. And I have zero guilt about filing because I knew that it was all there was left to do.

God Bless,
Kanga

HB, here is a link to a very helpful site. Here is an excerpt from one of their articles:

Why do wives get so very, very bitter?

Why is it that a wife will finally get so fed up, that she is really fed up?

After a wife cries out to God, pleading with Him to touch her husband for 20 years...

We have taught wives that they are to be quiet and just pray for their husbands.

This is an injustice.

God has given every woman a voice and a heart.

She is told to have patience and wait.

She is shamed into staying with this man who has been manipulative, controlling and unresponsive to her heart cries.

When she gets tired of being tired, bitterness sets in.

She shuts down emotionally. She gets angry that this man has stolen years of her life. She files for divorce, moves out, or gets a boyfriend.

Sometimes she quits church.

Sometimes, after she crashes, the man who so violently defrauded her emotionally, mentally and spiritually SUDDENLY wakes up.

He only needed a wake up call. He was unable to hear her cries of desperation when there were no consequences. Finally, he realizes that he has been a complete and total idiot. The miracle that his wife has prayed for many years is in the process of happening. Her husband is finally open to receiving correction. He realizes that he destroyed his wife. He realizes that he really wants her back. This is what she prayed for, for years.

However, in her mind, it is too late. She hates his guts. She has closed her heart to God.

What would have been better?

It would have been better for her to have been validated by the church, that yes, she has been married to a manipulative and controlling man.

It would have been better, instead of being told to pray and suffer in silence, for her to have been encouraged to expose her husband to church leadership to be dealt with.

It would have been better, if the church had understood that NO Christian man has license to ignore, belittle, disappoint and betray his wife.

He does not own his wife. He is not her boss. He promised to love and cherish this precious woman. He did not warn her that he would instead abuse her.

He has been in violation of his marriage vows for years.

He has ACTED like he wanted out of the marriage.

Recently a man told his wife, "I just want to do what I want to do, when I want to do it, without interference by you." He had fallen into the practice of wearing headphones all evening to listen to music or sporting events. In the mornings, he was spending three hours at a coffee shop visiting with other men. She complained. He let her know that he was not going to be controlled by her. If he wants to wear headphones every night and ignore her, he would do so.

Instead of suffering for ten more years, finally getting bitter, backsliding from God and hating his guts, she simply packed his bags and delivered them elsewhere.

Will he wake up? She hopes so. If he does, she wins. The marriage will be restored. If he does not wake up, she still wins. She wins by not losing her sanity. God did not call a woman to lose her sanity in the name of marriage.

God made arrangements for a Christian woman, who is married to a man who “acts” like he wants out of the marriage. If an unbeliever wants to depart, she is to let him depart. What makes a man a Christian? Is it because he claims to be a Christian? Or is he a Christian because he claims to be a Christian AND acts like a Christian?

If a man acts like an unbeliever, and communicates, by his actions, that he wants out of the marriage, a Christian wife must be given the dignity of freedom to "let" him out of his marriage. The Bible offers this dignity.

A wife in this case can choose to "let" him out of his marriage by deciding to close the door to the home. When she "lets" him out of his marriage, she is being obedient to the Word of God – which commands her to "let" the unbelieving husband depart.

He claims to be a believer? Some will say, "Didn't we do wonderful works in your name?" To some of these, Jesus will reply, "Depart from me, I never knew you."

If Jesus will not let a man's claim to be a Christian stand, in light of his heart actions and attitudes, then a wife does not have to offer what even Jesus himself does not offer.

Why would a wife "let" her husband depart?

She does this "for the purpose" of restoration.

She does not get angry and bitter.

She does not cry and plead with her husband for 20 years until she finally goes crazy, gets irrevocably bitter, gets a boyfriend, or shoots him or herself.

How many precious women believers, whom have walked away from God and their marriages in bitterness, would still be in the faith today, had she been instructed correctly, according to the Word, that the time to "let" her husband depart was early on.

How early in the marriage?

Has she spoke directly to him about her heart felt needs... and he has rejected her heart-cry repeatedly?

Has she begged him to go to counseling, and he has refused?

Has she pleaded with him to read good books on marriage - yet he has declined to do so?

Has he demanded that she shut up and quit telling him what he is or is not doing that is hurting her?

Does he turn everything and everyone against her by his skillful manipulations?

Does he have a girlfriend?

Is he committed to pornography?

Does he spend every waking minute working, refusing to invest any time in his wife and children? (Work is his idol)

Does he ignore her genuine efforts at asking him to change his attitudes and actions?

There are some requirements of a wife in marriage. We outline these in our books also. One of these requirements is that she speak up to her husband, very clearly, and COMMUNICATE to him exactly what he is doing or not doing that is straining the relationship. Has she learned to speak up and REQUIRE that he be a man of God in his marriage by being the husband that he promised to be when he convinced her to marry him?

Another requirement for a wife, is to forgive her husband, IF he hears her heart and begins to change in to the husband that he promised to be when they were dating. She needs to recognize his efforts at change.

Has she forgiven him for failures and recognized efforts at change?

If a wife has NOT been plain spoken, If a wife has NOT called upon her church leadership to speak to her husband and call him to accountability, if she has NOT asked him to read books or go to counseling, then she has to do this first. First things first.

If she has done all of this, and he is still a manipulative, controlling, and abusive husband. Or if he is simply a retreating, non-responsive husband to her needs – who continually ignores her pleas, informing her that she is losing her sanity, then she must act before she becomes embittered.

She must act before she indeed does lose her mind.

She must decisively give him what he wants: out of the marriage. What does he want? He wants OUT!

In this case, it is time for him to get exactly what he wants, and that is to be put out of the home.

mkgal1 said:

HB, here is a link to a very helpful site. Here is an excerpt from one of their articles:

Click to expand...

Do you know if that site has a doctrinal statement or anything ? I cant find one.
If its as good as it looks so far Im very definitely interested in linking them to my Homepage.
My concern is that they honor ALL current lawful marriages between a man and a woman...ie if they teach that a second marriage must be torn apart to 'stand' for a previous one then Im not interested.
Barring that, however, that seems like a fantastic site so far.

I haven't come across any posts that say for a couple to separate or divorce to honor a first marriage. I don't get the impression that is something they would ever suggest. I did find a vision statement:

This is our goal:

1. To help couples find gladness in proportion to their current and former misery! Marriage is designed by God to be greatest source of happiness, joy and contentment in this earth realm, second only to our relationship with Him and the joy of our salvation. Marriage is meant to make you holy, yes, AND happy! Outrageously happy! *1

2. To enable a couple to get into the position where God can replace the evil years with GREAT years! *2

3. To help a couple see God's miracles in their life: *3
A. The miracle of transformation in character and a restored marriage.
B. The miracle of restoration for all children and others who have been harmed by the marriage dysfunctions. *4

4. To let children experience what it is like to have God's glory and favor in their home because their parents are so wonderfully in love and outrageously happily married. This brings healing to the wounds that the children have been subjected to through the years of marriage misery in the home. *4

5. To get God's favor on every home that receives this message. A great marriage ATTRACTS God's favor and Glory. A great marriage IS the greatest representation of the Glory of God in the earth. *5

6. We pray that our efforts, and the efforts of our helpers in this forum will be successful. *6

7. We pray that your efforts at entering into an outrageously happy marriage will be successful. *6

Also, there is a section titled "When it Isn't God's Will for you to Stand for your Marriage". Mostly what I am getting from that is when the "unbeliever" departs, they are to be let go.

HB...maybe you can start with this letter. This is from a former husband who would not listen to his wife; and failed to be faithful in his journey of working to win her heart back. Print this and give it to men who are not treating their wives right. Perhaps it can be used to WAKE THEM UP.

I would like to write this to all of the women on here whose husbands have either left them or are in an affair. I am an ex-husband. It’s nearing 4 years that we have been split up and our family disintegrated.

I won’t go into the details of what happened and how it happened or all of the things that happened during my time with Joel and Kathy, but I’m sure that all of you who have the privilege of knowing my ex-wife would know. And for those of you who don’t, you can read chapter 8 in book two.

What I really want to do is to tell the “offending” husbands something through their wives.

I work in a hospital and I see a lot of sick people, but, it wasn’t until this last week that I realized there are people, myself included that are sick or wounded, and don’t even know it.

The department I work in is very small and close knit, and I work with a woman who has always been a friend to me, and she would talk with me when I was going through my divorce.

She had been living with a man for the last 13 years, they have an 8 year old daughter together, and just about a month ago, she came home to find him gone with his stuff and even some of hers.

After the shock of what happened wore off of her, and the emotional trauma set in she began to open up to me about how she was feeling.
The disbelief, the denial, the hurt, everything came pouring out of her.

The other night as I lay in bed, she called me and it was in that phone call, that I realized all of the things that I myself had done to my ex.

As I listened to her crying and telling me how sad she was, I knew that she went through the very same thing. When I heard her sobs and pleas of “why?”, I could hear her trying to make sense of it all, and again I knew my wife experienced all of that.

When she told me the things that he was doing and how it was hurting her, I thought of my ex, and then I thought of myself, and how I had been, and how repulsed I was at the thought of how devastating I had been, almost without actually knowing it.

I became ashamed and filled with grief and remorse over my “selfishness”. Yes, that’s exactly what it is and was. Absolute selfishness.

And I realized after nearly 4 years, to my own horror, the things that I had done to my wife and family. I had not only broken and mutilated my wife’s heart, but I had murdered the most beautiful woman that God ever considered putting on the face of this earth.

How could I have done those things? How could I have been so malicious and callous toward the woman who once loved me so much? Her outbursts at me during that time left me confused, but, I see now that they were her way of telling me how she felt, instead of things to create friction or an argument. And behind the outbursts were the pleas to get her family back. And I was just too stupid to know it.

Men, husbands, boyfriends, do yourself a favor, but, most importantly do the woman in your life a favor. You have the power to totally destroy her, and if you’re having troubles now, you are already doing it.

Don’t wait for nearly 4 years to come to your senses after it’s too late. Safeguard her heart and her emotions! Realize that the love that you see coming from her eyes can be gone in a heartbeat and replaced with the look of indifference.

The smile that greets you and the child like exuberance gone completely and replaced with a look that is so totally void of emotion, it cuts through you every time you see it. Then, if you have children involved, “the wave”. The arms that once reached for you so lovingly now signal a courteous hello, just as you would get from someone who didn’t know you at all.

STOP IT!!! I Implore you, for your wife’s sake, for your children’s sake, and for yours.

You can’t say you’re sorry, there is NOTHING you can say to take back all of the things that you are doing and have done. When you realize it, you will also realize, that there are no words to convey your sorrow over your once shocking behavior.

But, that’s all I can say to my ex, is I’m so totally sorry,
A word that is nothing more than a band-aid on a hemorrhage, a hemorrhage, that YOU caused!
then there is the children, what do you say to them?

I truly, truly hope that you husbands come around before it's too late.

Thanks
Ive been spending time reading over there and so far Im amazed at the soundness of their views in what Ive seen so far.
They definitely seem to have a very firm grasp of the WHOLE picture from scripture where marriage is concerned.
Im always skeptical because most of the time I find some hidden point that ruins it, but based on what Ive read so far Id definitely love to send folks having marital problems from our site over to there.

mkgal1 said:

I haven't come across any posts that say for a couple to separate or divorce to honor a first marriage. I don't get the impression that is something they would ever suggest. I did find a vision statement:

This is our goal:

1. To help couples find gladness in proportion to their current and former misery! Marriage is designed by God to be greatest source of happiness, joy and contentment in this earth realm, second only to our relationship with Him and the joy of our salvation. Marriage is meant to make you holy, yes, AND happy! Outrageously happy! *1

2. To enable a couple to get into the position where God can replace the evil years with GREAT years! *2

3. To help a couple see God's miracles in their life: *3
A. The miracle of transformation in character and a restored marriage.
B. The miracle of restoration for all children and others who have been harmed by the marriage dysfunctions. *4

4. To let children experience what it is like to have God's glory and favor in their home because their parents are so wonderfully in love and outrageously happily married. This brings healing to the wounds that the children have been subjected to through the years of marriage misery in the home. *4

5. To get God's favor on every home that receives this message. A great marriage ATTRACTS God's favor and Glory. A great marriage IS the greatest representation of the Glory of God in the earth. *5

6. We pray that our efforts, and the efforts of our helpers in this forum will be successful. *6

7. We pray that your efforts at entering into an outrageously happy marriage will be successful. *6

Also, there is a section titled "When it Isn't God's Will for you to Stand for your Marriage". Mostly what I am getting from that is when the "unbeliever" departs, they are to be let go.

Click to expand...

HuntingMan said:

Thanks
Ive been spending time reading over there and so far Im amazed at the soundness of their views in what Ive seen so far.
They definitely seem to have a very firm grasp of the WHOLE picture from scripture where marriage is concerned.
Im always skeptical because most of the time I find some hidden point that ruins it, but based on what Ive read so far Id definitely love to send folks having marital problems from our site over to there.

Click to expand...

I was amazed and grateful to have been directed to the site. I want to tell everyone about it.

HB, that site I linked earlier offers help, real help, to turn your marriage around. They offer male mentoring where your husband can talk on the phone three times a week to keep him accountable. I am really impressed. I haven't really gotten started, but I am hopeful.

One of the main things they talk about is that marriage was designed by God to glorify HIM. We are to grow in our Christian faith because of our marriages. As wives, we play a significant part in our husband's faith. We are our husband's helper...that means more that we are to encourage him in his walk of faith. There is so much to learn from that site and their books that I haven't come across anywhere else. The key is the accountability they offer. They don't allow for people to be just getting by in their lives...they really cause people to grow, which in turn, causes the marriage to grow. I really encourage you to check it out. I still pray for you.

www.godsavemymarriage.com get the book, open it to chapter 20 and leave it in the bathroom.. he has got to read from chapter 1 till the end ..

it is possible to repair your marriage..

we are getting that book, cause to be honest i want to read chapter 20.. heard a lot about it.. its got me interested.. and we want to make our marriage better..

Hisblood,

Are you married to my first husband??? Sounds just like him! He was controlling and really didn't care much to try and fix anything. Of course, everything was always my fault and he was a very selfish person. I married him when I was 18 and was married to him for 20 years. So after the dissolution, I was terrified of living on my own. I had never done that. I didn't have children so that's a big difference, but I know where you are coming from! Just to let you know ... I survived and lived on my own for 4 years before getting married again! I learned a lot about myself in that time also.

all good advice everyone...