I'm not sure how to handle this

ViaCrucis said:

Be a good counselor. Help people with their problems with loving compassion, with mercy, grace, and kindness. That is what a counselor that is a Christian ought to do--be a good counselor. Your job as a counselor wouldn't be to try and convince people to become Christian--because again you, me, nobody can do that. It is not our job as Christians to make other people Christians, to make other people "get saved". Salvation, again, is what Christ has already done for everyone.

So if you become a counselor, be a good counselor.

An excellent (IMO) quote from Martin Luther concerning the issue of Christian vocation is as follows:

"The Christian shoemaker does his duty not by putting little crosses on the shoes, but by making good shoes, because God is interested in good craftsmanship."

So following, a Christian counselor does his or her Christian duty by doing his or her job to the best of his or her ability.

-CryptoLutheran

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Then why would I want to be a Christian Counselor if I cant talk about Christ? Then I should just be a secular counselor. Now Ill learn more about the proper way to be a Christian Counselor through my schools program I hope but I plan to back up all my point of views with scripture. Thats how Im gonna roll because there is no greater moral compass than The Bible.

plummyy said:

My question was asking how I can be in the same room with people who are more-than-in-disagreement with my views on their religion. How might a non-believer and yourself get along? How might that non-believer talk to you, and how might you talk to that non-believer? Think about how your opinion might be useful to me, and then perhaps come to a conclusion for why I am asking religious folk and not someone like myself. I don't understand religious people, as I am not one. I am not religious because because I do not believe in your (any) religion, and doing so by 'giving it a try' would not be genuine. Perhaps the situation would be easier if I was suddenly in full swing of their same beliefs, of if they found themselves out to be a-theists, but that is unrealistic for myself and for my relatives. It's quite impossible to not believe in what you believe in. Doing so would be dishonest to yourself and to those you wanted to convince. And as some other respndants ahve helpfully noted, it is not all a matter of who-believes-what.

I am happy that you are on a path that makes you feel better about yourself, but I don't think that my post was shy in explaining that they are causing the problems. I don't say that out of stubbornness to realize my own faults. I don't fully blame their religion, and I certainly don't blame my lack-there-of. I will have to see them in the company of other people, and as much as I would treat them as a distancing friend (accept the distance and move on) I physically can't do that. I would, however, like advisory on how I might possibly communicate with them---if you are willing to take me seriously, then please feel free to contribute your helpful advice. I have had enough lame (weak, tired, exasperated, ill-thought) conversion therapy from these very relatives, and as I will say time and time again: believing in something is not like trying out a new ice cream flavor, and suggesting that belief is that easy, cheapens yourself and your beliefs to something that can be picked up in the frozen-food isle. I am not at odds with your god or your religion because I simply do not believe in it. I am not lying to myself when I say that I do not believe in or condone religion---I am saying this, because it's what I think is true. And i would ask that you not tell me that I should "return" to something that I have never, ever, understood as being true, because it is impossible to do that. I don't care if you were an 'atheist' who came to an epiphany about your god, and I did not ask for your experience in conversion. This post was not about conversion, not for myself or them. If you think this was an open door for you to throw Mark, Peter, and Paul at my face, I am sorry but you misinterpreted what I was asking. I truly and simply needed a religious person's opinion on what is going on in my life involving these relatives, and how I can understand what is going on a little bit better. Telling me that I can solve these problems by *somehow* changing my beliefs, does not in fact solve any problem, because this about the real world and not the rhetoric.

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Ok first I want you to understand that Im not a professional counselor. I havent even started school yet. But I do have 40 years of experience as a suffering non-believer. I can only share my stories and perceptions of life at this point. You have freedom of religion but I know that there are consequences for sin as stated in The Bible. If you educate yourself with The Bible, you may discover that it is the true word of God.

"You can be sure your sins will find you out." Numbers 32:23.

Frankly, this verse scares the crap out of me! It makes me think about all my suffering in my life because I want to know why. I chose to externalize my whole life, blaming everybody else for my unhappiness. Now, since I converted, Im internalizing instead. Im trying to fix myself according to God's word. And I believe its going to work. No guarantees that life is going to get great, but I feel significantly better already. I recommend you give Christ a whirl like I did and see where it goes.

They are sincere but misguided in their approach. You need more substantial information to some to belief. You will need to work out that relationship, but don't conflate their understanding into reason to reject following Jesus.

John
NZ

They are genuinely concerned for you, but they strive and it ruins it. It does not sound like they understand the teaching of sowing the seed in you, and letting God water it. You cannot pressure someone into the Kingdom. Have patience with them friend.

Troy Rambo said:

Then why would I want to be a Christian Counselor if I cant talk about Christ? Then I should just be a secular counselor. Now Ill learn more about the proper way to be a Christian Counselor through my schools program I hope but I plan to back up all my point of views with scripture. Thats how Im gonna roll because there is no greater moral compass than The Bible.

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I'm not saying you can't talk about Christ. But the point should be that a "Christian counselor" isn't about being a counselor wearing a crucifix necklace, it should be about doing your best at counseling--because that would fulfill your vocational calling.

Let's put it this way, which is more Christian?

1) A "Christian house painter" that only paints houses if he can mark the corner of the house with a small cross or

2) A painter that is a Christian and so does his job to the best of his abilities, is courteous and kind to his co-workers and the people whose house he is painting.

The answer should be the second. You don't need to affix little crosses to shoes to be a Christian shoe-maker, you just need to try and be a good shoe-maker. That's living out your Christian vocation.

-CryptoLutheran

Troy Rambo said:

I can only share my stories and perceptions of life at this point.

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Share your stories. They are your witness. There you only talk about yourself, and that's what you can talk about, because you know.
Your perceptions are private. No two people are the same, and God is no communist with a one size fits all solution. So what worked for you, your perception of the gospel doesn't necessarily fit for others. Plus: We are all on a journey with different starting points. When you try to make people go your way you might be a bad guide because they might walk into the wrong direction or they might approach you but not come closer to God in their effort to get to your place.
If you tell your story about how you try to get closer to God, they might feel the demand to do so as well. Their way will be different but their destination is the same as yours.

Troy Rambo said:

Frankly, this verse scares the crap out of me! It makes me think about all my suffering in my life because I want to know why.

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See, in my case I've been around that place briefly. Today I wouldn't say the bible is the true word of God, because it is no word. I'm more with Martin Luther now who said the word of God is the living the preached word in the very moment it is preached and speaks to the heart. The mere written letters on a paper are not the word of God per se. If this was the case, God's word could be mastered. I can put a book into my pocket and thus carry God around that way. I can interpret these written words in any way I like. The bible has been used to justify slavery, bigotery, even the Nazis here in Germany abused the bible for their cause. This is why I say the bible is just a book. A good book, an important book, but a book, and without the Holy Ghost it helps us nothing, on the other hand the Holy Ghost can also work without the bible (though the bible can help you distinguish the Holy Ghost from other spirits)

You say you are scared, that is another point. I arrived at what Paul wrote: Nothing can separate me from the love of God which is in Jesus Christ our Lord and saviour.

We Christians have no real reason to fear anything, because we are saved and we know it. I cannot tell you why exactly you had to suffer, but sin might play a role. Now get me right, I don't say sin isn't there or not so big a deal. Sin is hell to those who don't believe, because they have no hope to get away from it. We, as Christians, do know we are sinners, we do know we cannot overcome sin by ourselves, but we can take up he fight and we can rely on the fact that God is for us and that whoever might be against us is not as big as God. So if ever we do sin, we can repent without fearing the consequences (this doesn't mean there were no consequences), we can go on and do our best to do better in the future.

So don't be afraid, neither of sin nor of suffering. For some of your suffering others might be accountable. For some, you yourself might be accountable. I don't know any of this. All I know, it's neither you nor the other sinners who are the enemy. The enemy is sin, and sin won't prevail. Because as Christians we are strong to forgive others, what they did to us, and as Christians we can be assured that God does forgive us our wrongs, so sin won't take us captive any more, sin will not breed more sin as soon as we confess our own sinfulness. Once I can say I am a wicked sinner and for my sin alone people do suffer, I do not need to hide my sinfulness with more sins. The vicious circle is broken, we are free at last.

God bless
De Benny

Back to the topic...

plummyy said:

believing in something is not like trying out a new ice cream flavor, and suggesting that belief is that easy, cheapens yourself and your beliefs to something that can be picked up in the frozen-food isle.

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This... THIS is exactly right. You have hit the nail on the head. I'm not exactly sure how to help you; after all, I'm not your relatives, and the problem lies with their approach. I have a friend who is an athiest, and she is a lovely girl. We usually avoid talking about religion (it's hard; understand that it is hard for your relatives to avoid talking about God because Christians strive to have God in every area of our lives) which usually works. Sometimes the topic comes up, and she either passionately talks about what she believes or stays quiet. Usually I can tell when she's uncomfortable and change the topic, but this probably doesn't happen with your relatives. I would suggest changing the topic, but no doubt you have already tried this.
Maybe approaching them about it (when it is appropriate) is your best option. Be open and sincere when you tell them that this makes you uncomfortable and their efforts to convert you frustrate you. It's difficult if they are invasive with their beliefs, pushing them upon you, so it's hard to know what to do. Again, you've probably tried confronting them about it, so this may not work. If you've seen the Bible verse that has been mentioned a few times in this thread about "with gentleness and respect", maybe you can use this to show them that you do not feel respected when they do this to you. Pulling a Bible verse on a Christian to show us that we are doing something wrong really makes an impact, though again this might make them think that you are "searching".
Sorry if I could not help you much, but these are my suggestions. Hope you can sort this out.

plummyy said:

I'm agnostic/non-theist. I'm going to be visiting relatives soon who are very religious.

When I was younger, I used to spend a lot of time with them and enjoy their company, but now it's just.... every car ride evolves into them asking me how I don't kill people. They say they are interested to hear my opinion, but they will repeat their questions and spend most the time passively smiling at what I say with no response. Every time I tag along to their bible study because I want to spend time with them instead of just waiting for them to get back.... it evolves into me being isolated by the conversation they have about the "non believers" (it is a youth/young adult group, and it's where their friends can vent) when I'm just sitting there, not saying anything. Every time I try and share my music, they won't listen to it for "no reason". Conversations where they include their explicit opinions, end as soon as I offer mine. Every time I went along with them to church, it would end with the speaker looking directly at me as if they had told him to, when they ask for anyone "ready to accept Jesus Christ to come forward"---I'd say it's a coincidence, but it's happened since I was really young.

When we get along, we get along really well. There are moments where we all say the right thing, and the conversation is filled with laughter and no sort of set-backs, but it's gotten very rare. No visit of the late has ended with me wanting to stay longer---when we were younger, I used to beg my parents to let me stay another day, another week. But now? I drove home at 3 in the morning because I didn't want to wait until 8 am. They've stopped talking to me almost altogether and I've made no attempt to speak to them. It's been half a year since I last saw them, and now I'm driving to a family reunion.... at their house. I'm ready to just burn the bridge, let them go, but I used to be so close with them and I know that I'll get hyped up just as much as I used to, and then feel let-down as soon as the repetitious interaction begins.

As I said, it's been a long time since I was really in good terms with any of them. I remember a specific time, at another reunion (of sorts) when I tried to just stay away from them and barely speak to them.... but I felt a compulsion to talk to them, thinking they would act different---and they always do at first! As if they're just as happy to see me as I am to see them (picture: I get out of my car and they run towards me, and I run towards them) but it wears off. And it makes me feel sad about it because it's clear to me that they can't get along with me because of their beliefs, and I can tell that they want to just as much as I do. Truthfully, when we got along, it was because I adopted a "christian" attitude or understanding and closed the door to my own non-theism (and anti-religiousness) and it was such a degrading feeling to do to myself. I stopped doing that, dulling myself, and they vanished. I'll let them stay away from me. But now I have to see them.

What am I doing?

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You are a family member. It ought not to matter a hoot that you are an agnostic. If these people care more for their circle of fellow believers than they do for you then perhaps it would be better to leave them alone. Try and please all of them and you will succeed only in making at least one person very miserable……yourself.

Two comments (given to you by others) need responding to:

First:

That ‘nothing can remedy this situation other than you coming to faith in Christ.’

This is nonsense. No one comes to faith in Christ merely to gratify some other. Faith in Christ comes because one wants it to. It cannot be forced. The remedy lies in the hands of your family. They need only follow the command of he whom they call ‘Lord’: 'So always treat others as you would like them to treat you; that is the Law and the Prophets. (Matthew 7:12).

Second:

‘It sounds like your family problems is the result and consequence of your beliefs.’

Rubbish! Your family problems are the result and consequence of their lack of love and of respect for you as a person and family member.

I hope it all work out for you.

Troy Rambo said:

Then why would I want to be a Christian Counselor if I cant talk about Christ? Then I should just be a secular counselor. Now Ill learn more about the proper way to be a Christian Counselor through my schools program I hope but I plan to back up all my point of views with scripture. Thats how Im gonna roll because there is no greater moral compass than The Bible.

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I'm not arguing with your premise but I just wanted to share a different perspective that you may want to think about.

What I have found is that most counselors do not really accept faith as a valid thing in people's lives. For instance, if one would talk about prayer with a non Christian counselor as a part of the 'cure' to what they are going to do, it's not really seen by the counselor as any help because they are non believers and they do not understand faith and how it affects people's decisions. Some may just want the respect of someone valuing their faith as a real part of their plan to get through the difficulty without specifically talking about Christ or specific beliefs. More just general respect of the value of faith.