I'm not an atheist anymore...

Did you really get bullied out of the term atheist? Well as long as you know what it is and what you are that's okay then.

nonbeliever314 said:

I've come to the decision that I'm no longer going to call myself an atheist. People attach too many negative things to the term. I'm now simply a person who thinks it's highly unlikely there's a God, and doesn't follow any religion. And uses science to understand the world. As for the meaning of it all, I'm an existential nihilist. So the reason I even get up in the morning is just to learn more about the universe of which I'm a part of. I guess understanding is my life's goal.

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I am curious as to why you would care so much about negative things others might attach to the term atheist that you would abandon it as descriptive of yourself because of that? I do not understand that position. As both a christian and a conservative, I know how many negative things others attach to those labels yet I also know what I mean when I say I am those things. I would not discard the labels due to someone else's ignorant or purposely skewed characterization of them as something other than what they are. If you do not believe in a god, then I would encourage you to refer to your position as that of an atheist and if others see that as indicative of something more sinister than simple lack of belief despite your innocence of anything other than simple lack of belief that is their problem not yours. Further, you now run the risk of people thinking you are devious and disingenuous because you refuse to call yourself what you are in order to "pull the wool over their eyes". Since that practice, i.e. of to mis label or redefine oneself or one's position in order to deceive others, has become very popular in political circles, people are naturally suspicious of how people use words. What you are doing may well be seen, by those same people you are trying to placate, as being even worse than being "an atheist".

double post

grasping the after wind said:

I am curious as to why you would care so much about negative things others might attach to the term atheist that you would abandon it as descriptive of yourself because of that? I do not understand that position. As both a christian and a conservative, I know how many negative things others attach to those labels yet I also know what I mean when I say I am those things. I would not discard the labels due to someone else's ignorant or purposely skewed characterization of them as something other than what they are. If you do not believe in a god, then I would encourage you to refer to your position as that of an atheist and if others see that as indicative of something more sinister than simple lack of belief despite your innocence of anything other than simple lack of belief that is their problem not yours. Further, you now run the risk of people thinking you are devious and disingenuous because you refuse to call yourself what you are in order to "pull the wool over their eyes". Since that practice, i.e. of to mis label or redefine oneself or one's position in order to deceive others, has become very popular in political circles, people are naturally suspicious of how people use words. What you are doing may well be seen, by those same people you are trying to placate, as being even worse than being "an atheist".

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I do not necessarily agree.
However, once you´ve learned that using a label is causing confusion more often than not, I think it´s legitimate (in the interest of having meaningful conversations) to let go of the label, and instead use a few more words to describe those notions you hold that are relevant to the issue at hand.
e.g. "I don´t believe a God exists" might take two more seconds of my precious time than "I am an atheist", but on the long run it is likely to save me hours of clarifying misunderstandings.

grasping the after wind said:

I am curious as to why you would care so much about negative things others might attach to the term atheist that you would abandon it as descriptive of yourself because of that? I do not understand that position. As both a christian and a conservative, I know how many negative things others attach to those labels yet I also know what I mean when I say I am those things. I would not discard the labels due to someone else's ignorant or purposely skewed characterization of them as something other than what they are. If you do not believe in a god, then I would encourage you to refer to your position as that of an atheist and if others see that as indicative of something more sinister than simple lack of belief despite your innocence of anything other than simple lack of belief that is their problem not yours. Further, you now run the risk of people thinking you are devious and disingenuous because you refuse to call yourself what you are in order to "pull the wool over their eyes". Since that practice, i.e. of to mis label or redefine oneself or one's position in order to deceive others, has become very popular in political circles, people are naturally suspicious of how people use words. What you are doing may well be seen, by those same people you are trying to placate, as being even worse than being "an atheist".

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Tania Lombrozo raises a good point:

Tania Lombrozo said:

As Galef suggests on the podcast, however, there can also be value to appropriating a label when one doesn't fit the stereotypical mold. If a person belongs to a category by definition but doesn't like the cultural associations, why not take an activist stance and help bring about a change in those associations? Why shouldn't atheists enjoy Jesus Christ Superstar? Why shouldn't grandmothers be associated with number theory? Cultural associations are unlikely to change if only those who fit the mold adopt the corresponding label.

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nonbeliever314 said:

I've come to the decision that I'm no longer going to call myself an atheist. People attach too many negative things to the term. I'm now simply a person who thinks it's highly unlikely there's a God, and doesn't follow any religion. And uses science to understand the world. As for the meaning of it all, I'm an existential nihilist. So the reason I even get up in the morning is just to learn more about the universe of which I'm a part of. I guess understanding is my life's goal.

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Sounds like you are more agnostic, not really sure, willing to go where the truth takes you as opposed to neutral, don't care, wouldn't join a Christian forum to promote godless ideals. Some Atheist promote their Godless ideals of a Godless world wherein they envision a secular totalitarian state in the future after religion has been silenced.

Colter said:

Sounds like you are more agnostic, not really sure, willing to go where the truth takes you as opposed to neutral, don't care, wouldn't join a Christian forum to promote godless ideals.

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Agnostic and atheist are not mutually exclusive categories.

Some Atheist promote their Godless ideals of a Godless world wherein they envision a secular totalitarian state in the future after religion has been silenced.

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According to you, I apparently promote "godless ideals," and yet I don't envision a secular totalitarian state.

Archaeopteryx said:

Agnostic and atheist are not mutually exclusive categories.


According to you, I apparently promote "godless ideals," and yet I don't envision a secular totalitarian state.

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To me one sounds like "I'm not sure" and the other sounds like "I'm sure".

People like Penn Gillette seem to be in the later camp:

Colter said:

To me one sounds like "I'm not sure" and the other sounds like "I'm sure".

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You have been here long enough to know better.

Not wanting to call one self an atheist anymore -- I can only assume you've gotten a lot of crap from 'Christians' and that that's the reason why. If so, I'm truly sorry.

Yesterday I prayed for an old man who doesn't/didn't believe in God either. Why would he, he have never experienced God, never felt like God have helped him in any way; he haven't seen any proof of God at all, and the Christians he have met have probably/typically been religious and unloving. I've heard that story before. Or maybe he have just gotten through life without ever meeting a Christian. Who knows. Anyway, I've been at his house several times since I do home visits with my computer company, and this guy uses profanity in almost every single sentence. A few of his sencentes are swearing only; after a while it almost gets fascinating.

He didn't have any money to pay me with, so I told him whattaheck, let me pray for you and bless you and we'll call it even. With a surprised look on his face he agreed. Turned out the God he did not believe in and did not believe existed still were able to let the guy feel something happen to his body, and after praying for his diabetes (not sure if anything happened there, we'll see on his next checkup), he wanted me to pray for his skin problems as well. 80 years as a non-believer, and after 1 minute he wanted me to pray for something else as well. Kinda funny.

Oh, and I don't blame anyone for not believing a word of it - it's still true. Pointless story? Well, no - the point is that the guy have gone through his entire life without ever meeting someone that could help him experience God ("how do you know it was God?" I know, I know. Nice coincidence though.. ) but it took less than a minute for him to actually begin to question everything he believed/believes in.

Don't believe in God? Challenge a Christian to let you experience him. Get in their face, with an open heart. Words don't count, theories, "repent or you'll burn" - no, challenge them to let you experience God. The love of God is what leads to repentance, so ask them to experience the love of God. Is the Christian you meet unable to do so? Well, then I would question their Christianity. Go find someone else. Visit a church. How do you know which church to go to? The bible says that those who say they are in him (Christ) should live their lives like him. I.e. - if you do not find the love of Christ in their church, go elsewhere. Do you not feel like you're talking to a Jesus-like person? Go elsewhere. Even better, ask God to show you the people you should talk to. No one needs to know anyway, right? There's your chance to prove God wrong.

True nihilists stay in bed until they die. Well done for getting up, I am glad you can focus on your instinct for being.

Archaeopteryx said:

Agnostic and atheist are not mutually exclusive categories.

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I swear I have also went through great pains to explain this too before.

nonbeliever314 said:

I've come to the decision that I'm no longer going to call myself an atheist. People attach too many negative things to the term. I'm now simply a person who thinks it's highly unlikely there's a God, and doesn't follow any religion. And uses science to understand the world. As for the meaning of it all, I'm an existential nihilist. So the reason I even get up in the morning is just to learn more about the universe of which I'm a part of. I guess understanding is my life's goal.

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I never really saw the point in labeling oneself atheist/agnostic/Christian/etc in the context of someone taking it seriously on a personal level. I get some of it ... identity being important to people, as well as taking stances on things I suppose ... or belonging to groups/clubs/affiliations/etc. But when a person takes such labels and classifications so seriously that they actually base their identity on them or some such, or use them to stereotype others and compare them to caricatures in their mind ... it's a bit beyond me. Hard for me to relate.

I'm typically of the mindset that I leave the classifying up to others if it's that important to them. I also find it more interesting to drop such labels, because the response from others can be fascinating to me. I've also noticed that it may prompt someone to actually get to know you, find out what you believe or don't believe, who you are and who you aren't, as opposed to participating in the boxing of people in for them by ascribing some label to yourself in advance.

As far as I know, concerning this site in particular, you can hide your faith status from public view. Personally, I think it would be interesting if everyone on this site would do this

Colter said:

To me one sounds like "I'm not sure" and the other sounds like "I'm sure".

People like Penn Gillette seem to be in the later camp:

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There are several possible positions one might take for example,

1. I'm sure that there is a god.
2. I believe that there is a god.
3. I'm not sure but I suspect that there is a god.
4. I'm not sure but I suspect there is no god
5. I do not believe there is a god
6. I'm sure that there is no god.

No.5 is how many atheists define the atheist position. In my youth, it was almost universally if not universally( I had never heard any dissent to the following so I do not know if there was any) accepted and common to lump 1and 2 together as theism, 3and 4 together as agnosticism, and 5 an6 together as atheism.In recent years , however, it has been my experience that those I have talked to that label themselves atheist do not agree with that classification system and would rather commit to a two word system where 1 and 2 are theistic while 3, 4, 5 and 6 are atheistic as in 1 and two the definition of thiem as belief in a god would apply while in 3,4,and 6 the definition of atheism as lack of belief in a god would apply . Since suspecting a god may exist is not belief in a god it then is considered atheism which is lack of a belief or not believing in a god. Since grammatically and semantically either system could be a valid way of differentiating views, and since no one that I know labeling themselves agnostic has made a stink about their being considered atheist, I see no reason not to accomodate the atheist sensibilities on the subject.

GrimKingGrim said:

Did you really get bullied out of the term atheist? Well as long as you know what it is and what you are that's okay then.

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I do not self-identify with the term, as it describes what I am not; it feels as awkward as introducing myself as someone that does not collect stamps.

I'd say you should stand for your worldview. But perhaps that's easy to say from Britain.

I'd like to be label as a liberal humanist, but I'm happy to say I'm atheist.

Colter said:

Sounds like you are more agnostic, not really sure, willing to go where the truth takes you as opposed to neutral, don't care, wouldn't join a Christian forum to promote godless ideals.

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What is a "godless ideal"?

Colter said:

Some Atheist promote their Godless ideals of a Godless world wherein they envision a secular totalitarian state in the future after religion has been silenced.

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Do you have any names for these individuals?

Cold be the hands and the heart of the man who is away from God.