If world history repeated itself...

cairaiii · Apr 18, 2007

God were somehow to make a completely new earth, an exact replica of our current one, with a moon and equadistant from a sun-sized star, with the same land mass and oceans, etc. would everything happen the same way over again?

Would life begin? Would it evolve in the same way? Would humans again become the dominant planet?

And most importantly, would every human make the same choices that they made in the other world?

DailyBlessings · Apr 18, 2007

cairaiii said:
And most importantly, would every human make the same choices that they made in the other world?

I should think so: Choices are willful, not random. Or if they are not willful in nature, then I'd suggest they are probably determined by physical conditions, and thus would repeat anyway. For choices to be genuinely random in nature I think is a rather unlikely possibility, inconsistent with reality. People do, for instance, tend to make similar kinds of choices over the course of their lives, or choices that one might predict if one knew something of their background.

Norseman · Apr 18, 2007

Without some different variables, or different rules, you're going to get the same results. For example, if there is true randomity, and not seeming randomity due to limits of observation, then things wouldn't happen the same way the second time. If there isn't anything like that, and God has same involvement in both cases, then the same results would follow.

ExistencePrecedesEssence · Apr 18, 2007

Absurdity is the way of existence.

Tormac · Apr 18, 2007

I think things would be generaly the same (i.e. dna evolves and we get life), but specifics would certainly not be the same.

There is no reason, for example, that humans are a necesary outcome of evolution, for example. Eveolution has no goals, and it constantly tinkering with things.

Maybe, if God hit the "do over" button, the Dinosours would still rule the earth, or we might get critters that have never exsisted.

cairaiii · Apr 18, 2007

Suppose two parallel universes existed. I am using a calculator to generate random numbers. In the other universe I am also using that calculator to generate these random numbers, will they be the same?

DailyBlessings · Apr 18, 2007

cairaiii said:
Suppose two parallel universes existed. I am using a calculator to generate random numbers. In the other universe I am also using that calculator to generate these random numbers, will they be the same?

Yes. Random number calculators are not actually random- they just have the appearance of randomness.

cairaiii · Apr 18, 2007

...so nothing is random?

ExistencePrecedesEssence · Apr 18, 2007

Theres no proof that its not, and no proof it is. Daily is bringing up a prospect that you are what you will to do...with god overlooking your actions. Absurdity is something comparible with random luck....but not quite. The absurdists bring a very odd way at looking at the world....everything is pointless but the pointless is a point created by us.

Norseman · Apr 18, 2007

cairaiii said:
...so nothing is random?

We don't know. We aren't capable of observing how random things get at a quantum level.

AdalWulf · Apr 18, 2007

dsafdsaf

m9lc · Apr 18, 2007

I assume that if the universe were to start over again with the exact same circumstances, history would play out the exact same way. The workings of the world are all, in the end, traced back to the laws of physics, which don't change.

elman · Apr 19, 2007

cairaiii said:
God were somehow to make a completely new earth, an exact replica of our current one, with a moon and equadistant from a sun-sized star, with the same land mass and oceans, etc. would everything happen the same way over again?

Would life begin? Would it evolve in the same way? Would humans again become the dominant planet?

And most importantly, would every human make the same choices that they made in the other world?

I don't think so.

elman · Apr 19, 2007

m9lc said:
I assume that if the universe were to start over again with the exact same circumstances, history would play out the exact same way. The workings of the world are all, in the end, traced back to the laws of physics, which don't change.

It does not seem reasonable to me that my decision on when I will have lunch is traced back to the laws of physics and may change from one day to the next based on a number of factor most of which are also not completly tracable back to the laws of physics.

elman · Apr 19, 2007

Tormac said:
I think things would be generaly the same (i.e. dna evolves and we get life), but specifics would certainly not be the same.

There is no reason, for example, that humans are a necesary outcome of evolution, for example. Eveolution has no goals, and it constantly tinkering with things.

Maybe, if God hit the "do over" button, the Dinosours would still rule the earth, or we might get critters that have never exsisted.

I tend to agree with that.

TheDreadedAtheist · Apr 19, 2007

It is my understanding that nothing is genuinely random. Quantum particles are genuinely uncertain. I believe there is a physics graduate around here someone that can confirm this.

elman · Apr 19, 2007

TheDreadedAtheist said:
It is my understanding that nothing is genuinely random. Quantum particles are genuinely uncertain. I believe there is a physics graduate around here someone that can confirm this.

I don't see how physics controls my thoughts or my actions. They are not random to me because some of them I control, but to someone else they are not absolutly predictable.

TheDreadedAtheist · Apr 19, 2007

elman said:
I don't see how physics controls my thoughts or my actions. They are not random to me because some of them I control, but to someone else they are not absolutly predictable.

If that person had the ability to compute every physical event that will affect you (much as your God can), knew the physics and workings of your brain (much as your God can), and could do these computations at incredible speed (much as your God can), he could effectively un-randomize your reactions to things.

Oh and by the way, physics controls your thoughts because your thoughts are determined by physical processes.

ExistencePrecedesEssence · Apr 19, 2007

TheDreadedAtheist said:
If that person had the ability to compute every physical event that will affect you (much as your God can), knew the physics and workings of your brain (much as your God can), and could do these computations at incredible speed (much as your God can), he could effectively un-randomize your reactions to things.

Oh and by the way, physics controls your thoughts because your thoughts are determined by physical processes.

But your thoughts are capable of existing purely upon the existent of the consciousess...which consisting of nothing physical defies all deterministic rules that apply to physical phenomena. Since existence is judged through action and phenomena, that concept fits perfectly into the situation.

Our mind is what creates us, and our consciousness,which holds the nothingness of possiblity for our mind to assert itself, is thus the basis for our "self" as existing as a "self" aware of it "self". If the consciousness did not exist we would be subjected to purely instinctive animal conceptions. We would be just like a monkey, or cat.

An example of this is when you sit infront of a cat who is trying to descend from the stairs and when it tries and goes around you it will go one way, and when you block it, it will go the other way, and when you block it again it will try the other way again...and it will repeat these two attempts without ever discovering another. The cat thinks about getting around us, but it does not think of a new way to get around us. It does not realize that those two choices are not the only ones it has but it chooses them none the less because it is incapable of becoming aware of new chioces...this reason is because the cat holds no consciousness that allows it to think of new conceptions.

elman · Apr 20, 2007

TheDreadedAtheist said:
If that person had the ability to compute every physical event that will affect you (much as your God can), knew the physics and workings of your brain (much as your God can), and could do these computations at incredible speed (much as your God can), he could effectively un-randomize your reactions to things.

Oh and by the way, physics controls your thoughts because your thoughts are determined by physical processes.

No my thoughts are not determined by physical processes. I may use physcial processes in conveying and analysing my thoughts. My reaction to things does not totally control what I chose to do about them. I can react to something with fear and still choose to be corageous.

If world history repeated itself...

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