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"If we had confidence that Trump did not commit a crime, we would have said so"

rjs330

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Evidence is only facts. Evidence in the justice system is often interpreted during the process. What does the evidence mean? Particularly when it comes to the actions of an individual or what they say. That's why we have a justice system. The evidence does not always determine a person's guilt or innocence. Evidence must be interpreted.

Trump is INNOCENT until proven guilty. That is our justice system. He may very well have committed crimes, bit just because you believe he did, doesn't mean he did.
 
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Allandavid

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I would like both parties to stand up for the Constitution. I'm not sure what you are specifically referring to in this case. What part of the Constitution aren't the Republicans standing up for?

The part that requires a president to fulfil his oath of office and for Congress to oversee him in that regard. There were several Republicans of integrity who put their own careers on the line during Watergate because they felt compelled to call a corrupt president to account, even though he was one of their ‘own’.

I see only one, so far, in the current era...
 
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bhsmte

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All true.

With that said, when clinton was impeached, they didnt convict in the senate. In fact, not one democrat voted to convict clinton, on either the perjury or obstruction charges.

IMO, trump likely obstructed, but with watergate, the evidence was over the top with nixon and on tape.
 
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Albion

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That's edifying but my post, to which you responded, was not focusing upon "collusion" or a lack of "collusion."
...which, however, was the express purpose of the Mueller investigation.

There having been none, the backup plan is to find something, anything, to take its place...and that is clearly to engage in a fishing expedition never approved by the Congress.
 
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RocksInMyHead

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I don't know what you're getting at here. It is within the purview of an investigation to look into efforts to obstruct the investigation.
 
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Albion

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I don't know what you're getting at here. It is within the purview of an investigation to look into efforts to obstruct the investigation.
But no evidence of that was turned up either! And yet Nadler et al are acting as though it was.

They might as well start investigating Senator Graham or Congressman Gaetz for obstruction since there is no evidence of them doing any obstructing. That's all it takes for the people who are still fighting the 2016 election campaign to subpoena anybody, isn't it?
 
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RocksInMyHead

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But no evidence of that was turned up either!
Um, have you read Volume II of the Mueller Report? Literally all of it is evidence for obstruction of justice.
 
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bhsmte

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No evidence??????????????
 
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Albion

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Um, have you read Volume II of the Mueller Report? Literally all of it is evidence for obstruction of justice.
If so, Mueller would not have concluded that he couldn't charge the president with obstruction.
 
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Arcangl86

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If so, Mueller would not have concluded that he couldn't charge the president with obstruction.
He didn't conclude that he couldn't charge the president based on DoJ policies, not the strength of the evidence.
 
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RocksInMyHead

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If so, Mueller would not have concluded that he couldn't charge the president with obstruction.
1. What leads you to that conclusion? Mueller has stated his reasoning for not charging the President, and lack of evidence doesn't figure into it.

2. If it isn't evidence of obstruction, what is it?
 
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Albion

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1. What leads you to that conclusion? Mueller has stated his reasoning for not charging the President, and lack of evidence doesn't figure into it.
It certainly does. You appear to have concluded that he has the goods on Trump but lied by saying he does not. Further, he then simply chooses not to pursue it or even properly inform the Congress of his findings. Really?
 
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RocksInMyHead

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It certainly does. You are apparently saying that he has the goods on Trump but lied by saying he does not.
He did not say that he doesn't have the goods on Trump. He said that DOJ policy prevents him from presenting charges against the President.
Further, he then simply chooses not to pursue it or even properly inform the Congress of his findings. Really?
He was bound by DOJ policy to not pursue charges - it wasn't a "choice". And what else is the report besides informing Congress of his findings?

I ask again, have you read the Mueller Report? It lays out all of the evidence that Mueller found very clearly.
 
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stevil

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Did you believe those same experts when they said Hillary committed crimes? Or is it only because it's Trump? Or do you believe the experts on both counts? Maybe you don't believe the experts in either case. Which is it?
Why are you going back to Hilary? This is deflection again.
I believe it is a crime to put classified email/documents onto a private server. Yes.
I also think it is a crime to drive faster than the speed limit.
I wouldn't classify a person driving too fast as a criminal. I wouldn't be chanting to lock them up.

Can you please address my points rather than chanting "what about Hillary?"
 
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stevil

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I don't, but it does seem weird that he'd need to. Can anyone identify something in what he wrote that needs to be clarified?
Personally, I'd like him to testify about his discussions with Barr, pre Barr's congressional testimony. If he can show that Barr lied then Barr ought to be charged on that.
 
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stevil

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I think Mueller needs to testify under oath to clarify what he said to Barr, as Barr's responses under oath indicate that Mueller didn't have a problem with Barr's summary, which seems to contradict Mueller's letter to Barr.
Totally agree


I also think he should give his opinion as to whether the evidence compiled constitutes a crime, although I think that question is less consequential.
This is unneccessary. Mueller is just one of many, many, many people qualified to assess the evidence against US law.
Mueller will state that he deems it unfair to accuse someone of a crime if they don't have the means of going through a trial.

Now, if Trump is removed from office, then I am sure Mueller will offer his professional opinion.
But many people can offer a qualified legal opinion. What is special about Mueller?
 
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