If God loves us, why does he send us to hell?

Armistead14 · Apr 18, 2012

If our sins condemn us to eternal hell, wouldn't the price to pay for our sins for justice sake condemn Christ to eternal hell and simply not death?
If our sins just meant death I could see Christ death as payment, but since
"he paid the price" how can death be enough if humanity is condemned to hell from birth

BriBrit · Apr 18, 2012

I believe that there is two types. 1. Judgment upon individuals and nations while they exist on this earth and 2. Judgment upon indivudals only after death following resurrection.

1 This judgment is literal and physical taking place while on this earth and can take any form and even lead to the loss of health, mind, life, possessions, and land. It can be local or universal. 2. This judgment is supernatural. The Bible does not clearly define what form this takes. For the redeemed there is judgment for rewards (for every work done in this body) whether good or bad leading to gain or loss. It seems there is also judgment by fire (Christ's baptism of supernatural fire) which is temporary. It purifies and refines. For the wicked there is judgment by supernatural fire which is temporary. It purifes and refines. For the wicked the duration is determined by their spiritual condition and capacity to see their condition.

I believe that as in Adam all die even so (in the same way) in Christ all are made alive through Christs sacrifice. Christ by his death, justified all men (Romans 5:18). And Christ Himself forgave all men. Jesus could forgive peoples sins before He had died on the cross, (Matthew 9:2, Luke 5:20, Luke 7:47-48) I don't believe Jesus died on the cross because God had to punish somebody so as to maintain His status of perfect justice, rather Christ died to create a means of deliverance from sin, its consequences, deliverance from slavery to sin, and so that all might have free access to the life of God. Jesus died so that all could die to sin in Him, For he that is dead is freed from sin. (Romans 6:7) Jesus did not die to appease the anger of a wrathful god on our behalf. The death penalty was not merely paid for on our behalf, so we could be pronounced forgiven, Jesus died on the cross so we could die to sin, and be freed from sin.

What I see from the Spirit and much study of the Word is that for unbelievers this is no less true. In their case, as it was in ours, only divine revelation imposed under the constraint of Love can secure that change, since God will not do so by force. God is sovereign God is our Deliverer. Forgiveness has been secured for the wicked by Christ but they must receive it. To receive it they must first see and feel the consequences of their sin through a life review the consequences upon themselves, upon others, upon nature and God Himself. This has to be a process over time and the duration will cause the wicked intense mental pain, anguish, and woe. It will be a veritable hell, but it will be a transforming, corrective, cleansing process which will last only as long as it is needed; until they fully comprehend and repent; and then in desperation cry out to Jesus to deliver them. Immediately Christ will rescue them and they will receive the life that is theirs in Christ, for of a truth, there is only one name under heaven by which man can be saved and that is Christ Jesus. There is coming a time when every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess to the glory of God. When the last sinner has done this, then will the universe be cleansed from the last vestiges of sin and there will be no more pain, tears, death and the grave.

Dale Turenne · Apr 18, 2012

BriBrit said:
I believe that there is two types. 1. Judgment upon individuals and nations while they exist on this earth and 2. Judgment upon indivudals only after death following resurrection.

1 This judgment is literal and physical taking place while on this earth and can take any form and even lead to the loss of health, mind, life, possessions, and land. It can be local or universal. 2. This judgment is supernatural. The Bible does not clearly define what form this takes. For the redeemed there is judgment for rewards (for every work done in this body) whether good or bad leading to gain or loss. It seems there is also judgment by fire (Christ's baptism of supernatural fire) which is temporary. It purifies and refines. For the wicked there is judgment by supernatural fire which is temporary. It purifes and refines. For the wicked the duration is determined by their spiritual condition and capacity to see their condition.

I believe that as in Adam all die even so (in the same way) in Christ all are made alive through Christs sacrifice. Christ by his death, justified all men (Romans 5:18). And Christ Himself forgave all men. Jesus could forgive peoples sins before He had died on the cross, (Matthew 9:2, Luke 5:20, Luke 7:47-48) I don't believe Jesus died on the cross because God had to punish somebody so as to maintain His status of perfect justice, rather Christ died to create a means of deliverance from sin, its consequences, deliverance from slavery to sin, and so that all might have free access to the life of God. Jesus died so that all could die to sin in Him, For he that is dead is freed from sin. (Romans 6:7) Jesus did not die to appease the anger of a wrathful god on our behalf. The death penalty was not merely paid for on our behalf, so we could be pronounced forgiven, Jesus died on the cross so we could die to sin, and be freed from sin.

What I see from the Spirit and much study of the Word is that for unbelievers this is no less true. In their case, as it was in ours, only divine revelation imposed under the constraint of Love can secure that change, since God will not do so by force. God is sovereign God is our Deliverer. Forgiveness has been secured for the wicked by Christ but they must receive it. To receive it they must first see and feel the consequences of their sin through a life review the consequences upon themselves, upon others, upon nature and God Himself. This has to be a process over time and the duration will cause the wicked intense mental pain, anguish, and woe. It will be a veritable hell, but it will be a transforming, corrective, cleansing process which will last only as long as it is needed; until they fully comprehend and repent; and then in desperation cry out to Jesus to deliver them. Immediately Christ will rescue them and they will receive the life that is theirs in Christ, for of a truth, there is only one name under heaven by which man can be saved and that is Christ Jesus. There is coming a time when every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess to the glory of God. When the last sinner has done this, then will the universe be cleansed from the last vestiges of sin and there will be no more pain, tears, death and the grave.

DUDE!!!!!!! Where is all that in the bible. you poped off a couple scriptures out of context and gave a whole system of opinion with not one speck of biblical proof. The word of God is my only authority so if you plan to try and feed me that opinion please break it down with biblical proof. Also can you use scriptures that are in context.

Thanks and God bless.

brohammer26 · Apr 19, 2012

Armistead14 said:
If our sins condemn us to eternal hell, wouldn't the price to pay for our sins for justice sake condemn Christ to eternal hell and simply not death?
If our sins just meant death I could see Christ death as payment, but since
"he paid the price" how can death be enough if humanity is condemned to hell from birth

This is a good question. I have heard some pastors like Mark Driscol say that Jesus created and controls hell. It bugs me a bit to hear this...that the same person who saves us sends us to hell that was created by the same person....it makes no sense. I think there is more to it sometimes than what the king james bible says and what has been passed from roman teachings. I am not being speaking against god..but that we have so many translations of the bible and interperations of what it means why does it hurt to ask questions?

bricklayer · Apr 20, 2012

God does not love us because of what makes us unique individuals;
God loves us for what we have in common with Him.

God's love does not change; God cannot change.
God's love is what it is; it does not increase or decrease with human existence, being or activity. To the degree that man is like God, God loves man. To the degree that man is contrary to God, God hates us.

God's glory is the inviolate balance of God's infinite perfections. God's creation is the revelation of His glory. The revelation of what God loves and not what God hates would violate that balance. The bible does not hold out any of God's attributes, His infinite perfections, as His glory. The bible holds out the inviolate balance of those infinite perfections as His glory.

Remember, this creation is not about us; it's about Him.

Armistead14 · Apr 20, 2012

brohammer26 said:
This is a good question. I have heard some pastors like Mark Driscol say that Jesus created and controls hell. It bugs me a bit to hear this...that the same person who saves us sends us to hell that was created by the same person....it makes no sense. I think there is more to it sometimes than what the king james bible says and what has been passed from roman teachings. I am not being speaking against god..but that we have so many translations of the bible and interperations of what it means why does it hurt to ask questions?

Well, sadly, like most traditions, this forum doesn't allow much discussion here on hell, other than a place of endless torture.

Infinite punishment for finite crimes just doesn't seem just

If the wages of sin is eternal punishment in Hell, then Jesus would have to be eternally punished if in fact He died for my sins. But the Bible says the wages of sin is death which is exactly what Jesus did--died. So how can you say people will be eternally tortured in Hell? Is Jesus presently being eternally tortured in place of those who accepted Him as Lord? Again, if Christ took our sins and our place, if our punishment was eternal torture, then he clearly didn't pay that price.

dollarsbill · Apr 20, 2012

Armistead14 said:
If our sins condemn us to eternal hell, wouldn't the price to pay for our sins for justice sake condemn Christ to eternal hell and simply not death?
If our sins just meant death I could see Christ death as payment, but since
"he paid the price" how can death be enough if humanity is condemned to hell from birth

God determined the price. It was Jesus' Blood.

1 Peter 1:18-19 (NASB)
18 knowing that you were not redeemed with perishable things like silver or gold from your futile way of life inherited from your forefathers, 19 but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and spotless, the blood of Christ.

BriBrit · Apr 20, 2012

Armistead14 said:
Well, sadly, like most traditions, this forum doesn't allow much discussion here on hell, other than a place of endless torture.

Infinite punishment for finite crimes just doesn't seem just

If the wages of sin is eternal punishment in Hell, then Jesus would have to be eternally punished if in fact He died for my sins. But the Bible says the wages of sin is death which is exactly what Jesus did--died. So how can you say people will be eternally tortured in Hell? Is Jesus presently being eternally tortured in place of those who accepted Him as Lord? Again, if Christ took our sins and our place, if our punishment was eternal torture, then he clearly didn't pay that price.

At last, the voice of reason.

Thank you and God bless

Armistead14 · Apr 20, 2012

dollarsbill said:
God determined the price. It was Jesus' Blood.

1 Peter 1:18-19 (NASB)
18 knowing that you were not redeemed with perishable things like silver or gold from your futile way of life inherited from your forefathers, 19 but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and spotless, the blood of Christ.

So all he had to do was bleed, not die to save all mankind?

dollarsbill · Apr 20, 2012

Armistead14 said:
So all he had to do was bleed, not die to save all mankind?

He died and rose again. I have no doubt. Emphasis is placed on the Blood. His Blood, death and resurrection are certainly all part of redemption.

BriBrit · Apr 20, 2012

Dale Turenne said:
DUDE!!!!!!! Where is all that in the bible. you poped off a couple scriptures out of context and gave a whole system of opinion with not one speck of biblical proof. The word of God is my only authority so if you plan to try and feed me that opinion please break it down with biblical proof. Also can you use scriptures that are in context.

Thanks and God bless.

Hello. No I didnt quote scripture because I originally posted that outline on a Christian philosophy blog where it wasnt appropriate. But fair comment, I should have and I am working on doing that for you right now. Presumably you believe in eternal torment (ET)?

What I have personally found after intensive study is that ET has absolutely no basis in scripture despite its claim to fame, I am ashamed to say, as the most popular among Christians. A correct interpretation from the Bible, one that uses the orginal languages, shows me that the typical hell texts used by ET supporters, actually mean something completely different. Thats not to say that there isn't going to be a place like hell where the wicked will suffer the terror of God's wrath. Some I believe will be there for a very very long long time indeed. Certainly a place to avoid at all cost, hence the dire warnings in scripture of judgment to come upon the wicked.

Now, did you know that every incident of the word translated "hell" in the OT means Sheol or simply the grave? And did you know that very word translated "hell" in the NT means Hades or simply the grave? That is with the exception of Tartarus and Gehenna. Gehenna should have remained Gehenna because it is a literal place and therefore a proper noun. . Tartarus is also a place; a mythical place supposedly deep in the bowels of the earth where demonic spirits are imprisoned pending judgment day.

Check it out. Its true as any Hebrew and Greek scholar worth his salt will tell you.

I have more to share but I don't want to hog this blog and perhaps you may be relieved at that so I will leave it there, except to say this. Why is it that God has taught us Christians to love our enemies and do good to them if He doesn't do the same? Why does God have one set of rules for us and another set of rules for Himself. And tell me when Jesus was dying of the Cross and asked His Father to "forgive them for they know not what they do" did the Father ignore that prayer.

These are just two of the many contradictions of ET. It doesn;t make sense to me, but then I am just a dude!

Btw, as a Brit I am not familiar with the word "dude" - I sense it is used by ye Yanks in a derogatory sense but not necessarily offensively. Am I right?

God's blessings

Dale Turenne · Apr 28, 2012

BriBrit said:
Hello. No I didnt quote scripture because I originally posted that outline on a Christian philosophy blog where it wasnt appropriate. But fair comment, I should have and I am working on doing that for you right now. Presumably you believe in eternal torment (ET)?

What I have personally found after intensive study is that ET has absolutely no basis in scripture despite its claim to fame, I am ashamed to say, as the most popular among Christians. A correct interpretation from the Bible, one that uses the orginal languages, shows me that the typical hell texts used by ET supporters, actually mean something completely different. Thats not to say that there isn't going to be a place like hell where the wicked will suffer the terror of God's wrath. Some I believe will be there for a very very long long time indeed. Certainly a place to avoid at all cost, hence the dire warnings in scripture of judgment to come upon the wicked.

Now, did you know that every incident of the word translated "hell" in the OT means Sheol or simply the grave? And did you know that very word translated "hell" in the NT means Hades or simply the grave? That is with the exception of Tartarus and Gehenna. Gehenna should have remained Gehenna because it is a literal place and therefore a proper noun. . Tartarus is also a place; a mythical place supposedly deep in the bowels of the earth where demonic spirits are imprisoned pending judgment day.

Check it out. Its true as any Hebrew and Greek scholar worth his salt will tell you.

I have more to share but I don't want to hog this blog and perhaps you may be relieved at that so I will leave it there, except to say this. Why is it that God has taught us Christians to love our enemies and do good to them if He doesn't do the same? Why does God have one set of rules for us and another set of rules for Himself. And tell me when Jesus was dying of the Cross and asked His Father to "forgive them for they know not what they do" did the Father ignore that prayer.

These are just two of the many contradictions of ET. It doesn;t make sense to me, but then I am just a dude!

Btw, as a Brit I am not familiar with the word "dude" - I sense it is used by ye Yanks in a derogatory sense but not necessarily offensively. Am I right?

God's blessings

1st think I do not know how to quote only parts. Second thing is Dude here in canada refers word's like buddy, friend, kinda like the word Mate.

Second. Again you gave opinions and not scripture. If you are going to tell me that the greek word for hell really means grave, then you need to show me in the greek and the context of the greek. I can look up words in the strong's concordance and pick any word that suits what I believe. No offense meant in any way as I know many people who do this but I am in no way accusing you of doing this as I do not know you.

I have heard this debate by many and studied it. And I know there is no convincing you either way. So there is no point. Just like debating with one who believes all go to heaven and not one goes to hell ( weather it is ET or it is annihilation.)

Also there is no contradiction between God telling us to love our enemies and Himself punishing. Or Jesus asking the father to forgive those who crucified Him. I can explain it if you wish, but as once being an ashiest and trying to disprove the bible through contradictions came to the believe the bible is true.

lastly I am not a Yank. And I do not talk derogatory to my brothers or sisters in Christ even if I strongly disagree with them. The love of Christ compels me to respect all people even if I disagree. So have a great day my friend ( hence, have a great day dude.)

Emmy · Apr 29, 2012

Dear krnbrasha. May I give it you straightforward? God loves us, and Christ died that we might live. God also gave us His Commandments: 1) Love God with all our hearts, with all our souls, and with all our minds. 2) Love our neighbour as ourselves.
If we love God and our neighbour, Jesus will lead us back to God. If we decide not to love God and our neighbour, and God will not force us, what now? We do not want to return to God, there is only one alternative: we will end up in Outer Darkness, without God`s Love or Light. And may I state now? anywhere without God or His Love, is HELL.
What does that tell us? We refuse to return to God, whatelse is there? There is only God and God`s adversary: Satan, and Satan cannot stand to be near Love or Compassion, he flees from it. What else can God do, but allow you to go your own way: God will not force us, God wants our Love, freely given and No conditions made. I say this with love, krnbrasha. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

Tucansam93 · Apr 29, 2012

First, you have to describe what Hell is. Hell is the complete absence of God. God does not send us there, we choose to go there (as you have been told). God forgives all sins so even when we do sin we still have Heaven because of forgiveness. C.S Lewis says that the worst sin of all is pride. People who go Hell have too much pride, self pity, and blame God for not influencing their lives enough rather than trying to change themselves. They could have just asked for forgiveness but instead their pride got in the way. God influences us through the Bible which in turn will lead us away from sin. This is just my opinion on Hell. I don't know the truth, but hopefully this helped put things into perspective for you.

episkopos · May 1, 2012

Hello, brothers and sisters.
Firstly , God is a god of love and mercy. He did not create hell for the humans that He loves and created. He created it for Satan and his fallen angels, who rebelled against God (Rev 20:10). God does not want anybody to go to hell and does not wish that anybody should spend an eternity in hell (2Pe 3:9). But God cannot tolerate sin, and we are sinful by nature (Rom 3:23). So God created a way for us to be washed of our sinful nature and made holy, and that was through the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, His Son. It is up to us to accept this gift of salvation and escape from an eternal destiny of hell. If we go to hell it is not Gods fault, He gives us free will to choose life or death. Hell is a place of eternal suffering for those who have rejected God (Matt 25:46).
Bishop Dag Heward-Mills book-They went to Hell @ daghewardmillsbooks.org/shop/index.php?productID=443, explains clearly and concisely about this topic. I would highly recommend it. Stay blessed

daghewardmills.org

StAleisterCrowley · Jul 7, 2012

God doesn't send anyone to hell. The soul uses its free will to make that decision. Try not to humanize god.

njw2137 · Jul 8, 2012

Tucansam93 said:
First, you have to describe what Hell is. Hell is the complete absence of God. God does not send us there, we choose to go there (as you have been told). God forgives all sins so even when we do sin we still have Heaven because of forgiveness. C.S Lewis says that the worst sin of all is pride. People who go Hell have too much pride, self pity, and blame God for not influencing their lives enough rather than trying to change themselves. They could have just asked for forgiveness but instead their pride got in the way. God influences us through the Bible which in turn will lead us away from sin. This is just my opinion on Hell. I don't know the truth, but hopefully this helped put things into perspective for you.

No one who actually believes in hell is going to not ask for forgiveness because of pride. People who go to hell dont blame god for anything because they dont believe that he is even real

Armistead14 · Jul 11, 2012

episkopos said:
Hello, brothers and sisters.
Firstly , God is a god of love and mercy. He did not create hell for the humans that He loves and created. He created it for Satan and his fallen angels, who rebelled against God (Rev 20:10). God does not want anybody to go to hell and does not wish that anybody should spend an eternity in hell (2Pe 3:9). But God cannot tolerate sin, and we are sinful by nature (Rom 3:23). So God created a way for us to be washed of our sinful nature and made holy, and that was through the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, His Son. It is up to us to accept this gift of salvation and escape from an eternal destiny of hell. If we go to hell it is not Gods fault, He gives us free will to choose life or death. Hell is a place of eternal suffering for those who have rejected God (Matt 25:46).
Bishop Dag Heward-Mills book-They went to Hell @ daghewardmillsbooks.org/shop/index.php?productID=443, explains clearly and concisely about this topic. I would highly recommend it. Stay blessed

daghewardmills.org

The majority of mankind died without hearing the gospel, heck, it took 400 years until it reached Europe, another 1000 until it reached the Americas.
How's it their fault..?

jpcedotal · Jul 11, 2012

God doesn't send us to hell.

God allows us the free will to choose Him or ourselves. If we choose Him, we choose eternal life. If we choose ourselves, God allows us to die to ourselves...without Him in Hell.

We choose Hell, God does not send us there.

jpcedotal · Jul 11, 2012

Armistead14 said:
The majority of mankind died without hearing the gospel, heck, it took 400 years until it reached Europe, another 1000 until it reached the Americas.
How's it their fault..?

You are thinking of Godly things in a humanly manner. God tells us NO ONE goes to Hell that does not deserve (choose) to be there. That is one of those faith things.

No one is accidentally in Hell or in Hell because of simple lack of communication. My God is everywhere, even where the places where the Gospel has not reached yet.

If God loves us, why does he send us to hell?

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