• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

If God asks....

Jump to latest Follow Reply
Sort by date Sort by votes
E

Elioenai26

Guest
Paradoxum said:
He wouldn't in my understanding of a perfect God, but if He did then He would be immoral. Might doesn't make right.
Click to expand...

Your understanding is built on certain faulty presuppositions.

One of them is that moral perfection precludes the taking of life. This is false. You no doubt associate the crime of murder which only humans are capable of with God taking life. But if God is the Author of life, then He can take life. The Lord gives, and the Lord takes away, said Job.

The burden of proof therefore lies with you to make a case as to why the Author of Life would be wrong in taking life.
 
Upvote 0

Skavau

Ode to the Forgotten Few
Sep 6, 2007
5,823
665
England
✟57,397.00
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
Single
Okay, so I take it from this that if God asked you to kill anyone you'd do it?
 
Upvote 0
E

Elioenai26

Guest
Skavau said:
Don't play games. I want you to answer some questions for once.

In your world-view (if that makes it clearer) if God was to order the killing of some group of people, would it be wrong?
Click to expand...

You speak about wrong.

In order for you to ask a question about what is wrong, you have to have an idea about what is right, correct?

In order for you to distinguish between right and wrong, you have to have some type of standard of some sort that you look at in order to say, (A) is closer to the standard than (B).

Where (A) would be loving your neighbor and (B) would be spitting in your neighbor's face, you would no doubt say that action (A) is closer to the standard of right than (B).

What standard are you appealing to? What are you using to judge between actions (A) and (B)?
 
Upvote 0

Skavau

Ode to the Forgotten Few
Sep 6, 2007
5,823
665
England
✟57,397.00
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
Single
You asked for this thread. I made it. You're now spending as much time as possible avoiding giving a straight answer. Why should I answer anything you ask when you all but outright refuse to answer any question of mine? Even when you request this thread.

Elioenai26 said:
You speak about wrong.

In order for you to ask a question about what is wrong, you have to have an idea about what is right, correct?
Click to expand...
Yes, I would but this is not about me. This is about you.

You presumably have an idea about what is right and what is wrong. I am asking you, according to your standards and according to your understanding whether or not you would be okay with God killing a group of people.

Would you or would you not?

I'm not doing the judging at all, I'm asking you to make the judgement. I'm asking you to make the value call.

If God was to order the killing of some group of people, would it be wrong?
 
Upvote 0

Skavau

Ode to the Forgotten Few
Sep 6, 2007
5,823
665
England
✟57,397.00
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
Single
eckhart said:
No I wouldn't even if I had a visitation from an angel. It goes against the first and second commandments
what would you do skavau if you had to kill someone?
Click to expand...
Well I'd say no without hesitation concerning the hypothetical in the op.

I'm glad you would as well.
 
Upvote 0

Paradoxum

Liberty, Equality, Solidarity!
Sep 16, 2011
10,712
654
✟43,188.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
UK-Liberal-Democrats

I say God can't, because I understand why murder is wrong, and it applies to God too. God being the author of life doesn't mean He can take life, any more than a parent can kill their 10 year old child. It is murder all the same, even if you were the initial source of that life.

The burden of proof therefore lies with you to make a case as to why the Author of Life would be wrong in taking life.
Click to expand...

I have no need to, any more than I need to prove it would have been wrong for Jesus to rape someone.

But, I countered your point above with the parent comparison.
 
Upvote 0
E

Elioenai26

Guest

Your comparison fails. God is not a man or a woman who gives birth to a child. God is the locus and source of all life. ALL life.
 
Upvote 0

Archaeopteryx

Wanderer
Jul 1, 2007
22,229
2,608
✟78,240.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private

Morality 2: Not-so-good books - YouTube
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Paradoxum

Liberty, Equality, Solidarity!
Sep 16, 2011
10,712
654
✟43,188.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Humanist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
UK-Liberal-Democrats
Elioenai26 said:
Your comparison fails. God is not a man or a woman who gives birth to a child. God is the locus and source of all life. ALL life.
Click to expand...

Don't you think I know that? You do nothing to refute what I said.
 
Upvote 0
E

Elioenai26

Guest
Paradoxum said:
Don't you think I know that? You do nothing to refute what I said.
Click to expand...

I refute your argument by pointing out that it is based upon a category mistake. You place God in the category of a man and then say that God, if He takes a life, commits murder.

You are also basing your fallacious comparison on a misconstrual of the word "author". God is the author of life meaning He is the locus and source of all life. Men and women are not the locus or source of life of the child that is conceived between them. For life is already existent within them via the sperm of the man and the egg of the woman. Life is already there. The man and woman do not "create" life in the sense that God creates life. Therefore you are equivocating on the term "author". Men and women are not the author of life of a child in the same sense that God is said to be the Author of all life.
 
Upvote 0

Archaeopteryx

Wanderer
Jul 1, 2007
22,229
2,608
✟78,240.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Elioenai26 said:
Animals are not moral or ethical creatures. According to you, we are just cousins of our primate relatives and primates don't murder each other. So you have no justifiable basis for asking about what is wrong or right.
Click to expand...

We are animals and we are moral creatures. You keep forgetting (or perhaps ignoring) the fact that we are not just cousins of our primate relatives. We are not just apes, anymore than we are just mammals or just chordates. We are human beings.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Gadarene

-______-
Apr 16, 2012
11,461
2,507
London
✟90,247.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
UK-Labour
Elioenai26 said:
Animals are not moral or ethical creatures. According to you, we are just cousins of our primate relatives and primates don't murder each other. So you have no justifiable basis for asking about what is wrong or right.
Click to expand...

Primates have rudimentary moral and social structures (concepts of fairness, value, reciprocity etc). They're not the only animals that do.

Other animals do not.

As Illuminaughty pointed out, you're engaging in a particularly hasty generalisation here. Ditch the pseudointellectual Thomistic nonsense of Craig, and you may get somewhere.
 
Upvote 0
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

L
Discernment or dominance?
Replies
17
Views
458
Christian Philosophy & Ethics
com7fy8
Why vegetarian? - please move or remove if not appropriate
Replies
10
Views
374
Traditional Adventists
ChubbyCherub
51 senators ask FDA to rescind approval of new ‘generic’ abortion pill
Replies
0
Views
73
OBOB General Politics Forum
Michie
Losing friendships and Matt 24:12
Replies
11
Views
539
Christian Philosophy & Ethics
timechangers
We Speak God's Wisdom
Replies
0
Views
300
Deeper Fellowship
Christsfreeservant
Menu
Log in
Register