I need an answer for someone else.

babychrist · Apr 4, 2010

Happy Easter To All !!!!!!!!!

Right now, I'm sort of leading a family 'bible class' (God help me!!).

Last night, I was trying to explain to them, that Christ is not a human person and a divine person (multiple personality disorder ???:o), but that he is a divine person with a human nature.

---with a soul.

My sister then asked something along the lines of, "Well isn't our soul our personhood?"

I didn't know how to answer her, since I've always assumed as well, that our soul is the "I"; the thing that says "Me".

Can anyone help me? How do I answer her?

Thanks

BC

Paul1965 · Apr 4, 2010

One interpretation I have learned is: Body + Spirit = Soul

At death our body returns to the dust of the earth, the spirit returns to God. At the time of the resurrection, the body and the spirit are reunited.

Maybe that doesn't really answer your question, but it is one perspective. While living the I is the soul, body and spirit. After our resurrection, we will be soul again!

This is somewhat of a controversial topic. I can't think of the verses off hand that support this, but if you want, I can try to find!

God Bless, Blessed Easter!
Paul

Eucharisted · Apr 6, 2010

Catechism:

466 The Nestorian heresy regarded Christ as a human person joined to the divine person of God's Son. Opposing this heresy, St. Cyril of Alexandria and the third ecumenical council, at Ephesus in 431, confessed "that the Word, uniting to himself in his person the flesh animated by a rational soul, became man."89 Christ's humanity has no other subject than the divine person of the Son of God, who assumed it and made it his own, from his conception. For this reason the Council of Ephesus proclaimed in 431 that Mary truly became the Mother of God by the human conception of the Son of God in her womb: "Mother of God, not that the nature of the Word or his divinity received the beginning of its existence from the holy Virgin, but that, since the holy body, animated by a rational soul, which the Word of God united to himself according to the hypostasis, was born from her, the Word is said to be born according to the flesh."90

babychrist · Apr 8, 2010

Paul,

Thanks for reminding me, that soul includes both the spirit and body, of a person. I need to keep that in mind.

Eucharisted,

What is the difference between a "rational soul" and "personhood"?

Thanks to both

Eucharisted · Apr 8, 2010

babychrist said:
Eucharisted,

What is the difference between a "rational soul" and "personhood"?

About three genes.

Dumb jokes aside, the difference is this regarding Jesus: God the Son became man. So Jesus isn't a human person but a Divine Person. It is because the Divine Person became man that Jesus is a Divine Person and not a human person. God assumed humanity, not vica-versa.

Eucharisted · Apr 15, 2010

Catechism Index

Person(s)
and the common good, 1738, 1905, 1912-13
communication through the media and, 2492, 2494
constitution of, 362
destined for eternal beatitude, 1703
differences between, 1946
as God's image, 1730
identity of, 203, 2158
integrity of, 2338-45
is capable, 1704
respect for, 1907, 1929-33, 2212, 2297-98, 2477, 2479, 2524
and scientific research, 2292-96
and their goods, 2407-18
rights and duties of, 1738, 2070, 2108, 2270, 2273
sexuality and, 2332, 2337
and society, 1878-89, 1929
state and, 2237
as the temple of the Holy Spirit, 364
transcendent nature of the human, 1295, 2245
work and, 2428
See also Man; Society

dignity of the person, 1700-876
artificial insemination and, 2377
attempts to influence the genetic inheritance and, 2275
euthanasia and, 2277, 2324
experiments on the human creature and, 2295
foundation of, 225, 357, 1700, 1730, 1934, 2126
implications of, 1780, 1930, 1938, 1944, 2339, 2467
pornography, prostitution, violation, and, 2354-56
and religious freedom, 1738, 1747, 2106
respect for, 1935, 2158, 2235, 2267, 2297, 2304
sin and, 1487, 2261, 2320, 2353, 2414
and social justice, 1911, 1913, 1926, 1929, 1938, 2213, 2238, 2402

2WhomShallWeGo · May 14, 2010

babychrist said:
Happy Easter To All !!!!!!!!!

---with a soul.

My sister then asked something along the lines of, "Well isn't our soul our personhood?"

I didn't know how to answer her, since I've always assumed as well, that our soul is the "I"; the thing that says "Me".

Can anyone help me? How do I answer her?

Thanks

BC

The Soul is not body + spirit. Nor is it the I. Your entire being is the I. and your soul is your spirit.

Although sometimes spirit and soul are used to mean will and intellect respectively. Hebrews 4:12 "For the word of God is living and effectual and more piercing than any two edged sword; and reaching unto the division of the soul and the spirit,of the joints and also the marrow and is discerner of the thought and intents of the heart."

He is a divine person with a divine nature and a human nature with a human soul and a human Body. He is not a ghost in a human shell nor are you or I. I am not just a soul. I am a Man. I am a particular Man. My soul is the spiritual non corporal part of me, My body is the Corporal part of me. The fact that my soul is meant to animate a particular body is makes it unique. Either one of them by itself is NOT entirely me. That is part of why death of the body is so awful and why the
Final resurrection so important.

Saint Augustine took a lot of time to refute heretics who thought the body was not part of I, as you put it and although I haven't read that particular book I understand he crushed them.
JMJ

babychrist · Aug 25, 2010

Thanks everyone for pointing me in the right direction

Berndt Totterman · Nov 13, 2010

Jesus,our Lords peace be with You.
Dear friend. The question about our soul is hard to explain,but when we talk about it,we mean what we are. The soul makes us "us" and God gives us the soul at the very moment we become human. What we then do with our soul is up to us. I hope this answer give You something to answer. You should also read the Catheshism,there You find many good things to know.
I wish You all the best with my blessings.

LOCO · Jul 2, 2011

babychrist said:
Happy Easter To All !!!!!!!!!

Right now, I'm sort of leading a family 'bible class' (God help me!!).

Last night, I was trying to explain to them, that Christ is not a human person and a divine person (multiple personality disorder ???:o), but that he is a divine person with a human nature.

---with a soul.

My sister then asked something along the lines of, "Well isn't our soul our personhood?"

I didn't know how to answer her, since I've always assumed as well, that our soul is the "I"; the thing that says "Me".

Can anyone help me? How do I answer her?

Thanks

BC

Hello and good luck with the Bible class

Christ was fully human and fully divine. He had to experience the frailty of being human and temptations etc. in order to fulfil his divine purpose. Like a coin which has two sides/two different sides of the same being.

The soul may be defined as the ultimate internal principle by which we think, feel, and will, and by which our bodies are animated. The term 'mind' usually denotes this principle as the subject of our conscious states, while "soul" denotes the source of our vegetative activities as well.

P.S. The Catechism is an excellent teaching tool

363 In Sacred Scripture the term "soul" often refers to human life or the entire human person.230 But "soul" also refers to the innermost aspect of man, that which is of greatest value in him,231 that by which he is most especially in God's image: "soul" signifies the spiritual principle in man.

364 The human body shares in the dignity of "the image of God": it is a human body precisely because it is animated by a spiritual soul, and it is the whole human person that is intended to become, in the body of Christ, a temple of the Spirit:232

Man, though made of body and soul, is a unity. Through his very bodily condition he sums up in himself the elements of the material world. Through him they are thus brought to their highest perfection and can raise their voice in praise freely given to the Creator. For this reason man may not despise his bodily life. Rather he is obliged to regard his body as good and to hold it in honor since God has created it and will raise it up on the last day.

365 The unity of soul and body is so profound that one has to consider the soul to be the "form" of the body:234 i.e., it is because of its spiritual soul that the body made of matter becomes a living, human body; spirit and matter, in man, are not two natures united, but rather their union forms a single nature.

366 The Church teaches that every spiritual soul is created immediately by God - it is not "produced" by the parents - and also that it is immortal: it does not perish when it separates from the body at death, and it will be reunited with the body at the final Resurrection.235

367 Sometimes the soul is distinguished from the spirit: St. Paul for instance prays that God may sanctify his people "wholly", with "spirit and soul and body" kept sound and blameless at the Lord's coming.236 The Church teaches that this distinction does not introduce a duality into the soul.237 "Spirit" signifies that from creation man is ordered to a supernatural end and that his soul can gratuitously be raised beyond all it deserves to communion with God.238

368 The spiritual tradition of the Church also emphasizes the heart, in the biblical sense of the depths of one's being, where the person decides for or against God.239

GOOD LUCK

fire1 · Jul 3, 2011

Well. That is a hard question. What is our soul,and where is it? Still we use to think that the soul is in our heart,but it is not. Our soul is what we are. God gave us our soul and gave us a body to carry the soul. "Our body is a temple" is not far from the truth,reckon it is the truth. But how to explain that to someone else.
We are the soul and the soul is we. The soul is our body and talks to other souls not only in words but in deeds and thoughts as well,therefor it is impossible to "point" to a place where it is.
As said,God gave us life and with life also our soul,so I guess the best way to explain it is by simply say that "we are the soul".
I don't know if this helps you,or if you understand what I wrote,I am not sure if I did understand it,but all I know is that "I" as a human,flesh and blood,did answer the question,but my soul gave me the words.
God bless you.

seeking_perfection · Mar 14, 2012

Genuine question if you do not mind me asking. If we have a body and soul, the body that is the physical shell and the soul that is the prime mover of the body, what do animals have? From experience with animals, they are most definitely distinctive and have their own 'being' beyond their physical nature. How does it differ and should it be called something other than soul? I understand that while humanity is created in God's image, e.g. with the extensive faculties and the ability to choose right and wrong, animals do not have this ability and things are more instinctual (or so the idea goes) but what is the difference between the physical and non-physical aspect of the being?

Foghorn · May 18, 2012

babychrist said:
Last night, I was trying to explain to them, that Christ is not a human person and a divine person (multiple personality disorder ???:o), but that he is a divine person with a human nature.

---with a soul.

Jesus is both human and divine.

zippy2006 · Nov 9, 2013

babychrist said:
My sister then asked something along the lines of, "Well isn't our soul our personhood?"

I didn't know how to answer her, since I've always assumed as well, that our soul is the "I"; the thing that says "Me".

The person is a unity of body and soul.[sup]1[/sup] The soul is the animating principle of the body, it is what gives it life.[sup]2[/sup] Every human being has a human body and a human soul. If there were no human soul, there would be no animating principle and the body would be inert, i.e. a corpse. To say that Jesus had a human soul means that he had a soul similar to our own: a soul with vegetative, sensitive, and intellectual powers. So he had organic living skin, a central nervous system, a faculty of reasoning, a faculty of will, etc., all by way of his human soul.

[sup]1[/sup] CCC 362-368
[sup]2[/sup] See Aristotle's De Anima and Thomas Aquinas' commentary

seeking_perfection said:
Genuine question if you do not mind me asking. If we have a body and soul, the body that is the physical shell and the soul that is the prime mover of the body, what do animals have? From experience with animals, they are most definitely distinctive and have their own 'being' beyond their physical nature. How does it differ and should it be called something other than soul?

Good question. In a technical philosophical context drawing from the ancients and medievals, soul means the animating principle of something that is alive. Therefore plants, animals, and humans all have souls, technically speaking. The soul of a plant is merely vegetative, the soul of an animal is vegetative and sensitive, and the soul of a human being is vegetative, sensitive, and intellectual. Today we generally understand "soul" in the way that the medievals understood "intellectual soul," although they sometimes left off the adjective when the context made the referent clear.

I understand that while humanity is created in God's image, e.g. with the extensive faculties and the ability to choose right and wrong, animals do not have this ability and things are more instinctual (or so the idea goes) but what is the difference between the physical and non-physical aspect of the being?

I don't understand this question. Are you asking what the difference between the physical and the non-physical in animals is?

twinc · Aug 15, 2014

because of the Fall we have fallen into physicality and materiality whereas we were and are created in the image and likeness of God viz mental and spiritual - we have to ask ourselves exactly where heart, soul, mind, spirit are located or may be found - more later - meanwhile any comments - twinc

chrismarklee · Sep 3, 2014

Look at the Trinity. From a human perspective, it makes no sense. The trinity is part of God's reality. We cannot understand this. We are humans

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