I may get in trouble for this, but it's baaaack...

Studeclunker · May 15, 2008

Yes, well... judging upon what's going on with the LCMS, we're not far behind them. It's sad, really. But there it is... It seems that these people aren't satisfied when they've polluted the theology, doxology and teachings of one church, they just keep hammering at all of them. The really frightening thing is people like our own Synodical president are right in there with them. As for you WELS members, don't think you're immune. Most of us at LCMS thought so too. Now we're dealing with the same problems, the same early symptoms of the disease that ELCA suffers from.

As to same sex marriage in California:

http://home.peoplepc.com/psp/newsst...080515/482bb540_3ca6_1552620080515-2113445533

I have to agree with McCain's campaign manager. The courts have no business making these decisions. Unfortuneately, our legislature doesn't have the spine to impeach these people when they pull this kind of shennanigans. The court has overstepped their venue by legislating in their decisions. They had no precident to base a decision on. There was no legal grounds upon which California law provided for same sex marriage. Therefore the court created their own precidents and forced upon the people of California a legal creation of the court's.

I seriously doubt that the constitutional ammendment would be able to be carried off. Since the extreme left holds such sway here and throws obscene amounts of money behind their agendas, an ammendment has little hope of passing. Then again, the Lord has pulled off greater miracles than this...

Pray for us, please.

My appologies. This whole situation with the ELCA, the tug-of-war going on in the LCMS... sometimes it gets just a bit... overwhelming. sigh #

Rechtgläubig · May 15, 2008

Studeclunker said:
As for you WELS members, don't think you're immune. Most of us at LCMS thought so too. Now we're dealing with the same problems, the same early symptoms of the disease that ELCA suffers from.

I agree totally!

filosofer · May 15, 2008

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Howdy. Keep in mind that there still are faithful Lutherans in the ELCA. While the denomination has most definitely strayed, we can and should reach out with encouragement to those who are struggling against the tide.

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MarkRohfrietsch · May 16, 2008

filosofer said:
[FONT="Franklin Gothic Medium"]
Howdy. Keep in mind that there still are faithful Lutherans in the ELCA. While the denomination has most definitely strayed, we can and should reach out with encouragement to those who are struggling against the tide.

[/FONT]

It is very difficult to reach these people. There are strong emotional ties to their edifice, and as much as they dispise the doctrinal shift, they find it dificult to leave. Also, congregations for the most part do not own their Church, the Synod does, again making it dificult for a Congregation to leave.

The friends that I know in ELCIC for the most part have just stopped going. There still seems to be a stigma attached to LCC and LCMS as a bunch of strict, pregediced, hard a**s. I think they want to be "liberal", but not too "liberal"

synger · May 16, 2008

seajoy said:
When I came across the prayer "Our Mother who is within us...." I about fainted dead away! Where do they get this crap? Thanks for the link, except I wanna now.

Whenever we bring up herchurch, I am reminded of the late 90's upset in the PCUSA (before I converted to Lutheranism) about the "Reimagining Conference". It had much of the same stuff, and purported to "re-imagine" God in both feminine and masculine terms.

Now I don't have problems with including "feminine" attributes to the Godhead, when they are Scriptural. God is neither male nor female. But I really have a problem with how far to the feminine they take it. When they begin calling the Spirit "Sophia" (divine wisdom), and serving milk and honey instead of wine and bread... *shudders*

I just add this to let you know that the struggle is not new, and is not denomination-specific. We are not alone in our fight to stick to conservative, confessional doctrines. It is from the aftermath of and backlash against the ReImagining conference that the PCUSA put the famous "fidelity and chastity" clause for ordained church workers (pastors, elders, deacons, etc.) into their Book of Order: "fidelity within the covenant of marriage between a man and a woman or chastity in singleness." It was just upheld this past February, too.

Now, like in the Lutheran churches, it is not so much a matter of whether it is allowed by the rules or not, but rather whether folks are subject to church discipline if they go outside the rules.

Studeclunker · May 16, 2008

synger said:
<snip> When they begin calling the Spirit "Sophia" (divine wisdom), and serving milk and honey instead of wine and bread... *shudders*
<snip>
Now, like in the Lutheran churches, it is not so much a matter of whether it is allowed by the rules or not, but rather whether folks are subject to church discipline if they go outside the rules.

That first bit about the goddess Sophia as well as the milk and honey service is just... scary.:o It's a slippery slope when one begins to tinker with doctrine and theology...

The thing that frightens me the most about the LCMS is it's our synodical LEADERS who are straying. Thankfully, they don't own the congregation properties, still... I'm sure they have their own ways of attacking congregations who cause trouble with their (the President's and his cronies') agendas.

Flipper · Jun 29, 2008

Sorry, I just now saw this.

Goddess Rosary?

Reicht!!!! Still playing silly video games?

PreachersWife2004 · Jun 29, 2008

The WELS is treading lightly these days. We got a new president and hopefully we'll see some light from that soon. What we are dealing with mostly is financial burdens and mistakes. We've been blessed that the doctrinal issues that have come forth have been handled correctly and in a timely manner.

I really do believe that our synod knows what's at stake here and so they are proceeding with caution on everything they do. For awhile, there seemed to be a split in the WELS, and there might still be, I don't know. The Michigan District has quite the reputation in the WELS (which is good in my mind because we got that rep for upholding doctrine over decisions).

We pray daily for our synod, as well as the LCMS and ELCA and other synods. We face tough times as it is...it sure would be nice to face them together as one big Lutheran synod, but I think that is a pipe dream.

DaRev · Jun 29, 2008

What the LCMS needs is another Jack Preus (who was an ELS transplant).

PreachersWife2004 · Jun 29, 2008

DaRev said:
What the LCMS needs is another Jack Preus (who was an ELS transplant).

I just recently overheard part of a conversation where two pastors were talking about Jack Preus. I don't know him personally but what I've heard seems to be very favorable.

See, we were having difficulties with our president...some mistakes were made, and he was humble enough to step down. He merely put out a statement that said despite a couple of districts lobbying for him, he wasn't going to put his name in the hat for re-election. This was the best move he could've ever made. It is really too bad that Kieschnik (I'm sure I spelled that wrong) couldn't have done the same thing, but I think that God will see the LCMS through this time. HOW He sees it through might get interesting, though!

filosofer · Jun 29, 2008

PreachersWife2004 said:
I just recently overheard part of a conversation where two pastors were talking about Jack Preus. I don't know him personally but what I've heard seems to be very favorable.

For the sake of clarity: J. A. O. Preus, II (known as "JAO" or also "Jack") was LCMS President 1969-1981; He was the ELS transplant in the 1950's, but he died in 1994. His brother was Robert Preus, formerly President of Concordia Theological Seminary, Fort Wayne (died in 1995), and father of Daniel, Rolf, Klemet, and a few others.

His son, J. A. O. Preus, III (known as "Jack"), his son, is currently President of Concordia, Irvine.

So, you have to clarify which "Jack" you mean.

PreachersWife2004 · Jun 29, 2008

Philo, I suppose I can't, since it was only a partial conversation I heard.

I do know that some of the good stuff I can definitely attribute to the older guy because it was in the context that he was president at some point in time.

I didn't realize the guy was dead, though. Oops.

Studeclunker · Jun 29, 2008

PreachersWife2004 said:
I just recently overheard part of a conversation where two pastors were talking about Jack Preus. I don't know him personally but what I've heard seems to be very favorable.

See, we were having difficulties with our president...some mistakes were made, and he was humble enough to step down. He merely put out a statement that said despite a couple of districts lobbying for him, he wasn't going to put his name in the hat for re-election. This was the best move he could've ever made. It is really too bad that Kieschnik (I'm sure I spelled that wrong) couldn't have done the same thing, but I think that God will see the LCMS through this time. HOW He sees it through might get interesting, though!

The how is the scary part. It seems that the conservative Christian Church (of all denominations) is under attack by old Scratch himself! He's attacking through the Liberal Agenda. It all even sounds so reasonable till one examines it closely and finds that these people believe in nothing, nothing at all.

I wonder if Dr. Rosenbladt is still teaching at Concordia Irvine. He was a wonderful teacher to learn from and gave much direction in finding out the whys and wherefores of our belief system. Last I heard though, his health (mental and physical) was failing. A sad, sad, loss to the LCMS.

PreachersWife2004 · Jun 29, 2008

You know the saying "the bigger they are the harder they fall"? Well, I attribute that to alzheimer's as well. We have two guys in our church now that were fantastically brilliant professors in their time. One of them was a very good friend of mine, even though he was 20 years my senior. He is 56 years and doesn't recognize his wife, but he recognizes me. He will forget how to dress himself. It is so sad to watch this brilliant mind go dim.

Studeclunker · Jun 30, 2008

You know, PW. I've heard that said before. Still, in holding the line against the corrupters, we need all the help we can get. The loss of Dr. Rosenbladt will be a heavy blow.

Gee... if the brilliant burn out quickly with Alsheimers and such, does that mean the dim-whitted and doofy like me will continue consistantly to the end (LOL)? Then again, 'use it or lose it,' would probably be my luck.

Rechtgläubig · Aug 12, 2008

Flipper said:
Reicht!!!! Still playing silly video games?

Flipper!!!!

Define "silly". lol

I may get in trouble for this, but it's baaaack...

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