I make peace, and create evil

Guerrier said:

Quoting from KJV Isaiah 45:7 7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."

What I want to ask is that if a person has an illness and feels tormented in some way, this is by the hand of God, because he creates good, or peace and evil. What is one to do with the knowledge that God allows and condones this evil side of one's life? Is it a way for us to rest in the Lord in the way that He has everything under control, and that if He decides to take this torment out of one's life, He will, but not by our will but by His?

What does this mean? (please relate this to the evil side of the subject, but if you want to expose the peace side, please do)

Thanks.

Click to expand...

Blessing and cursing (not in the verbal senses), these are themes throughout the Scriptures, and if we go back to the fall of man, the consequences of sin, we read about how God caused things, He cursed things, even the ground...

Gen 3:17 “Cursed is the ground for your sake; In toil you shall eat of it All the days of your life. 18 Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you, And you shall eat the herb of the field. 19 In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread Till you return to the ground, For out of it you were taken; For dust you are, And to dust you shall return.”

Illness, diseases, disasters, are all part of the "cursing" on Creation from the time of the fall of man. The blessings of restoration and reconciliation come later.

On another note, just imagine if God were not in control, if anything or anyone were out of God's control, that is beyond God's control...if that were possible...God would cease to be God...and something else would have dominion over God. That is by far a scarier thought, at least to me.

Guerrier said:

I don't imply that God condones moral evil, I'm using it in the sense of diseases and mental and emotional turmoil. In that way I beleive God allows it and indeed creates it. For what reason I don't know. As Job was tested, some might be too, but these are just my supositions.

Click to expand...

Job 19:21

Guerrier said:

I don't imply that God condones moral evil, I'm using it in the sense of diseases and mental and emotional turmoil. In that way I beleive God allows it and indeed creates it. For what reason I don't know. As Job was tested, some might be too, but these are just my supositions.

Click to expand...

Job 19:21

MichaelEric said:

What is it, exactly, that you think the word "sovereign" means? It simply refers to a Supreme ruler, or the font of authority. Why would God's sovereignty mean that He condones evil? Perhaps you are also confused about the meaning of the word "condone"?

Click to expand...

For the world, sovereign is just an relatively impotent position, so we get confused about the definition of sovereignty related to God. IF GOD IS REALLY GOD, then nothing can happen without Him allowing it. If that is not true, He is not "The only True and Living GOD", but simply one god of many. If He can't bring to pass what He says will come to pass, then you can't bank on any of His promises; because He doesn't have the power to bring it to pass for you. But, God calls His shots. He always tells us in advance what He is going to do. If God could create everything from nothing, why on earth would you want to believe He can't stop something or make something happen, if He wants? Did He go from omnipotent to weak, in your sight? Think about what you are saying.

If I look at the world and decide what I see is what love or joy or peace is, and then I make that the definition I attribute to God, something isn't right in my thinking.

So how about this definition of Sovereign: "MY WORD will never return void; but, MY WORD shall accomplish that which I please, and MY WORD shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent MY WORD". (Isa 55:11) If Someone can say that and it comes to fruition, without exceptions, that Person is GOD.

Peter says this about scoffers: "For this they willingly are ignorant of, that BY THE WORD OF GOD the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water; whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished; But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the SAME WORD are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men." (2 Pet 3:5-7) Jesus said it like this: "As it was in the days of Noah, so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark and knew not until the flood came and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be." (Matt 24:37) We could talk about "If you love Me, you will obey My commands" and "If you keep My commands, you will remain in My love" and compare that with the human definition of love. And remember, "God is Love."

God's ways are always higher and often uncomprehendible by man--at least until we are looking in the rearview mirror and then we understand a bit better.

1213 said:

I think it is important to understand first what evil means. Evil is lack of good, it is like emptiness, it is really nothing. When evil is present, it means there is no good. So, when evil is created, it means good, God’s protection is not there. God creates evil, by allowing people be without God. When people are without God, all kind of evil things become possible.

The reason why I think evil is possible, is that people wanted to know evil, and therefore were expelled to this first death where we can learn what evil truly means.

Good thing is that this lesson doesn’t last forever and that noting of this world can destroy our soul and body can be replaced. Therefore, even if things feel bad, I hope disciples of Jesus (“Christians”) understand to keep the focus on higher matters than temporary material things.

Click to expand...

Interesting thoughts.

So, (1) if I understand your second paragraph then, in your understanding, Jesus was born into the first death, right? (2) If evil is lack of good, what do you call it when someone who has the Spirit doesn't walk in the Spirit, but walks in the flesh in a particular instance. Are sin and evil not the same thing?

he-man said:

Job 19:21

Click to expand...

We have to be careful to know who is saying what in Scripture. Job didn't really know that God was touching him in Job 19:21. And while God called satan's attention to Job (Job 1:8, Job 2:3), and allowed with limits (Job 1:12, Job 2:6) it was satan who did so (Job 1:14-21, Job 2:7). And this is written: "In all this, Job sinned not, nor charged/accused God foolishly." (Job 1:22)

In Job, a bunch of people, including Job speak about what they think they know. God charges Job (Job 38:1-3, 40:1-2, 6-14--but the whole of Job 38-41 where God is speaking is God talking about Himself and His power and sovereignty). Job responded appropriately in God's sight (Job 42:1-6). Then, God went to those three friends and said "you have not spoken of Me what is right, as my servant Job has. (Job 42:7-9) "The LORD accepted Job. And the LORD turned away the captivity of Job, when he prayed for his friends; also the LORD gave Job twice as much as he had before." (Job 42:10). And about this man, Job, God calls him righteous again in Ezekiel 14:13-20.

I highlighted that part, because again, God demonstrates His sovereignty. God stopped allowing the attacks on Job. He allowed them for a purpose--to bring Job to a real understanding of who God is. And, when the purpose was accomplished, Job was restored with extra blessing.

Johnny4ChristJesus said:

….(1) if I understand your second paragraph then, in your understanding, Jesus was born into the first death, right?

Click to expand...

Yes, I have understood that Bible calls this life first death and Jesus was born into this.

Johnny4ChristJesus said:

(2) If evil is lack of good, what do you call it when someone who has the Spirit doesn't walk in the Spirit, but walks in the flesh in a particular instance. Are sin and evil not the same thing?

Click to expand...

I don’t see it possible that person has the Spirit, but doesn’t walk in the Spirit.

I have understood that sin is to reject God. And that makes all evil things possible. I don’t think they are necessary the same thing, but that sin is required to happen, before evil things happen.