And you know he was speaking metaphorically, not that he was instructing the Corinthians to call him by that title.
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And you know he was speaking metaphorically, not that he was instructing the Corinthians to call him by that title.what about this one.....
1Co 4:15 Even if you have ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers; for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel.
Thanks very much for sharing, and alerting me as well.@CoreyD
Here is one direct contradiction that Paul had with the teachings of Jesus Christ in the Gospel:
Jesus says in Matthew 23:9
"And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven."
But Paul says in 1 Timothy 5:1
"Do not rebuke an older man harshly, but exhort him as if he were your father."
This is a direct contradiction against the command of Christ to call no one on earth a father, which is also broken in many Christian traditions.
Now in the church at Antioch there were prophets and teachers: Barnabas, Simeon called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen (who had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch), and Saul.
Not many of you should be teachers my brothers, knowing that we will receive greater judgment.
He wasn't the only father.what about this one.....
1Co 4:15 Even if you have ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers; for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel.
Yes, he actually did. This is evident in Matthew 10:34-35"...As if he were your father" is not instruction to call anyone "Father." Christ had not obliterated the existence of natural fathers, nor was Christ abolishing the commandment to honor one's father and mother.
Acts was written by Luke, a meticulous Greek scholar who also wrote a well researched Gospel, without which we would be lacking many detailed narratives not found in the other Gospels. I would prefer his account over any other as a theophilus.I have a problem with Paul and his version of events.
What we know of Saul/Paul, comes from Paul. Christians today accepts his version of events, and make this person of small (Acts 9 commentary) stature (Paulus) a Giant in the religion he has invented, Pauline Christianity we have today. My issue with Paul is his disinformation, according to the ancient authors--Christian, Jewish, and Pagan. According to St. Jerome (347-420), there was a tradition among Christians in the Holy Land that Paul's parents were immigrants to Tarsus from the Judean (Galilean) city of Gischala: “they say that the parents of the apostle Paul were from Gischala, a region of Judea* and that, when the whole province was devastated by the hand of Rome and the Jews scattered throughout the world, they were moved to Tarsus a town of Cilicia; the boy Paul inherited the lot of his parents” **(St. Jerome, Commentary on Philemon, vs. 23-24). Yet, Paul claims that he is from the tribe of Benjamin, and he like his father before him are Pharisees. See Acts 23:6.
Sue for Jero.
*Jerome was first and foremost a religious author. However, geography was not his best subject, he mistook Galilee of the Gentiles/Galilee of the Nations, as being in Judea.
**Translated: by Thomas P. Scheck (2010), St Jerome’s commentaries on Galatians, Titus, and Philemon, pp. 378/9, University of Notre Dame Press, Indiana.
No, it doesn't answer the two questions I posed.Yes, he actually did. This is evident in Matthew 10:34-35
34 “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn
“‘a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
36 a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’[c]
37 “Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it.
This also answers your question @CoreyD
I've never heard this before.Jesus also denounces Mary, his birth mother, in Mark 3:34-35. He denounces her and his brothers and says that everyone who does the will of God is his mother, brother, and sister. Interestingly, he leaves father out of this. This is because Christ did not have a biological father, Joseph was not his father God was, and to be like Jesus we must also deny earthly fathers.
Where did you get the idea from, that Jesus was angry at his mother and brothers because in Mark 3:21 he was being accused of being insane by them, may I ask?When Christ denied Mary he was breaking the Ten Commandments. He was angry at his mother and brothers because in Mark 3:21 he was being accused of being insane by them. The teachers of the law were accusing him of being possessed by Beezlebub. Jesus fulfilled the law and he did die the death which is the penalty of that commandment Matthew 15:4 when he was crucified.
Why in so many churches denominations are the priests expecting people to call them father or in the case of the pope Holy father?And you know he was speaking metaphorically, not that he was instructing the Corinthians to call him by that title.
ADMIN HAT ON
It is probably a good time to remind everyone of the following SITE WIDE rule:
Challenging Paul's position as an Apostle of Jesus Christ who (although not one of the original twelve) was sent forth by Christ after his conversion [Acts 9:15-16], or arguing against the inclusion of Paul's writings in the New Testament canon, is not allowed in any "Christians Only" forums (including the Controversial Christian Theology forum). You may disagree on the interpretation and application of his writings, but not their place as canon or Paul as an inspired author of Scripture.
ADMIN HAT OFF
And you know he was speaking metaphorically, not that he was instructing the Corinthians to call him by that title.
Thanks very much for sharing, and alerting me as well.
Good of you to take note of Jesus words regarding this.
The question we can ask here, is, was Jesus (A) discouraging persons using father, in reference to fathers who are such biologically, or spiritually, or was he (B) discouraging giving persons titles of prominence and superiority?
Whe we read the context, the answer becomes obvious.
Matthew 23:6-12
6 They love the [b]best places at feasts, the best seats in the synagogues, 7 greetings in the marketplaces, and to be called by men, ‘Rabbi, Rabbi.’ 8 But you, do not be called ‘Rabbi’; for One is your [c]Teacher, [d]the Christ, and you are all brethren. 9 Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. 10 And do not be called teachers; for One is your Teacher, the Christ. 11 But he who is greatest among you shall be your servant. 12 And whoever exalts himself will be [e]humbled, and he who humbles himself will be [f]exalted.
Regarding 'teacher', consider please,
Acts 13:1
James 3:1
Regarding 'father', please read Matthew 10:35-37; Matthew 15:4-6; Matthew 19:5, 19, 29; John 8:56
What did Jesus men by what he said at Mark 10:29, 30?
Why did Jesus use the expression "my brother and sister and mother" Matthew 12:47-50?
Why did Paul use the expression "brothers and fathers, at Acts 22:1?
Why did James refer to Abraham as "our father", at James 2:21?
What about John... If Paul contradicted Jesus, would that not mean that John also contradict Jesus?
1 John 2:12-14
12 I write to you, little children,Because your sins are forgiven you for His name’s sake.13 I write to you, fathers,Because you have known Him who is from the beginning.I write to you, young men,Because you have overcome the wicked one.I write to you, little children,Because you have known the Father.14 I have written to you, fathers,Because you have known Him who is from the beginning.I have written to you, young men,Because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you,And you have overcome the wicked one.
Why did they uses these expression, "brother", "fathers", "sisters", "mothers", "children"?
After considering the scriptures, and answering the questions, how would you answer the question was Jesus (A) discouraging persons using father, in reference to fathers who are such biologically, or spiritually, or was he (B) discouraging giving persons titles of prominence and superiority?
Was Paul doing A, or B?
Please feel free to mention any other texts of Paul, you think are contradicting Jesus. thank you.
This is a good question JFF. Thank you for asking.Why in so many churches denominations are the priests expecting people to call them father or in the case of the pope Holy father?
1 Do not rebuke an older man, but exhort him as a father; younger men as brothers;
2 older women as mothers, and younger women as sisters, with absolute purity.
4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children are walking in the truth.
@CoreyD
Here is one direct contradiction that Paul had with the teachings of Jesus Christ in the Gospel:
Jesus says in Matthew 23:9
"And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven."
But Paul says in 1 Timothy 5:1
"Do not rebuke an older man harshly, but exhort him as if he were your father."
This is a direct contradiction against the command of Christ to call no one on earth a father, which is also broken in many Christian traditions.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this.It's not something self-claimed. Pharisee is a very strict term under strict supervisory. You don't randomly call yourself a Pharisee. You may call yourself a rabbi though. Paul is a strict Pharisee with his teacher representing a whole Pharisaic school of thought. Even more strict is that Paul took commands directly from the Great Sanhedrin in Jerusalem. Only a potential candiate of the Great Sanhedrin, such as a renowned elite Pharisee can do so.
Paul is not under law - the Mosaic Law - Romans 6:14, 15. Though under the law of Christ - 1 Corinthians 9:21circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of the Hebrews; concerning the law, a Pharisee;
According to the catholic website Catholic Faith, Beliefs, & Prayers | Catholic AnswersWhat our Lord was doing was discouraging people from presuming prominence and superiority, by using a figurative rhetorical device. @prodromos and @dzheremi have addressed this, if I recall.
Sounds more like you have a problem with the extra biblical writings from hundreds of years after Paul.I have a problem with Paul and his version of events.
What we know of Saul/Paul, comes from Paul. Christians today accepts his version of events, and make this person of small (Acts 9 commentary) stature (Paulus) a Giant in the religion he has invented, Pauline Christianity we have today. My issue with Paul is his disinformation, according to the ancient authors--Christian, Jewish, and Pagan. According to St. Jerome (347-420), there was a tradition among Christians in the Holy Land that Paul's parents were immigrants to Tarsus from the Judean (Galilean) city of Gischala: “they say that the parents of the apostle Paul were from Gischala, a region of Judea* and that, when the whole province was devastated by the hand of Rome and the Jews scattered throughout the world, they were moved to Tarsus a town of Cilicia; the boy Paul inherited the lot of his parents” **(St. Jerome, Commentary on Philemon, vs. 23-24). Yet, Paul claims that he is from the tribe of Benjamin, and he like his father before him are Pharisees. See Acts 23:6.
Sue for Jero.
*Jerome was first and foremost a religious author. However, geography was not his best subject, he mistook Galilee of the Gentiles/Galilee of the Nations, as being in Judea.
**Translated: by Thomas P. Scheck (2010), St Jerome’s commentaries on Galatians, Titus, and Philemon, pp. 378/9, University of Notre Dame Press, Indiana.
According to the catholic website Catholic Faith, Beliefs, & Prayers | Catholic Answers
Why Do Catholics Call the Pope the “Holy Father”?
Since we are his holy people, and his people are the Church, it is fitting that the head of his holy people be called Holy Father—not because of his own merit, but because Christ died for him and for the Church that he leads on earth.
This takes it another level.
Is there not one head of the holy people - the Saints - the body of Christ?
Pardon me, please. I was not saying you are defending anyone. just that you think the practice is right.I am not defending Roman Catholic practices, other than referring to priests as Father, since almost all liturgical churches, including all Orthodox churches and the Anglicans, do that.
If we don't think things through, that can happen to us. That's why I wanted to know if it was something passed on by others.Sure, if we just ignore what Jesus is saying and why He is saying it. Funny how it's only modern people who interpret Jesus this way, and it's not at all how the earliest Christians understood Jesus.
-CryptoLutheran
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