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I don't understand

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UnitedInChrist

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Sorry, but I believe you said your homosexuality was sexual addiction where you had "hundreds" of sexual partners. I'd think most would have a hard time defending that hetero OR homo. Standing before the ALmighty, as a man in love with another man, and having a committed, caring, loving, and devouted relationship...I KNOW God would smile down upon you for it is what he had in store for you since before you were born. YOU state the obvious as do I...funny how what is obvious for you has a different meaning as to what is obvious for me. So please, I know of what some of your issues were because you were kind enough to share here..but what you were invovled in EXCEEDED homosexuality twofold. It is entirely no different than many str8 men that have sex every weekend who also end up with hundreds of sexual partners. Society EMBRACES that..but for a gay man, it needs counceling as an addiction. Such is the western world.
 
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UnitedInChrist

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Dear..what you are reading are translations from a different time. What you read when you see "lie with" etc...are what English terms were used to translate from what ancient cultures and ancient rituals did at a time long since gone. God did NOT give rules. God did NEVER said "don't lie with men"..etc...that scripture, long ago taken out of context, represnted the ancients rituals of temple prostitutes, idol worshiping, etc.. Leviticus was nothing more than ancient Israeli customs no different than those that said you needed to be circumcized in order to be give the promise land. If you were not circumcized..you were not of the chosen one. Would one still believe that today? The old testament is entirely old, political, israeli way of doing things..and can't possibly be compared to what is going on today. Literalists will disagree of course...but it doesn't make them right in the least. Again, that is why it is so important not to get hung up on the WORDs..but to read and get the MEANING of the books. When you refer to Leviticus..and if you are so strongly supportive that God wrote that law and that it is what it is, then with that you must also take everything else with that ancient custom. The abomination of eating shellfish. The abomination of men cutting their hair. Of people engaging in ANY sexual activity WITHOUT the purpose of procreating, the wearing of mixed fiber garments, women speaking in churches, etc... On top of this kill the families of those that don't believe, whip the child that sass' their parents, etc... Because gay issues are of hot topic in today's society...people go to the bible to pull anything out about it that they can to justify their hatred towards it. Trust me..you'll never see a fundie nor a literalist say..."i don' think homosexuality is wrong at all..but the bible says so, therefore i must believe it". 99 9/10s% of the time...they hate the homosexual to start with..thus, turn to the bible to get their twisted support. The picture is painted very clear..no one buys it for a minute.
 
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Der Alte

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From the time of Moses, ca. 1200 BC, the Talmudic scholars interpreted the scriptures as condemning ALL homosexuals acts; by ALL persons, male and female; in ALL places, under ALL circumstance, at ALL times, NO exceptions.

The Talmudic scholars did NOT even mention, and did NOT limit the condemnation of homosexual acts to, “homosexual rape,” “temple prostitution,” pagan temples and/or religious activities!
Talmud -- Sanhedrin 54a

MISHNAH. HE WHO COMMITS SODOMY WITH A MALE OR A BEAST, AND A WOMAN THAT COMMITS BESTIALITY ARE STONED. . . . Our Rabbis taught: If a man lieth also with mankind, as the lyings of a woman,29 both of them have committed on abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them,]. . . [Note: All upper case appears in the original]

Sanhedrin 54b

This teaches the punishment: whence do we derive the formal prohibition? — From the verse, Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is an abomination.[sup]1[/sup] . . . whence do we know a formal prohibition for the person who permits himself thus to be abused? — Scripture saith: There shall be no sodomite of the sons of Israel:[sup]2[sup] and it is further said, . . .

Now, he who [actively] commits pederasty, and also [passively] permits himself to be thus abused — R. Abbahu said: On R. Ishmael's view, he is liable to two penalties, one [for the injunction] derived from thou shalt not lie with mankind, and the other for [violating the prohibition,] There shall not be a Sodomite of the sons of Israel. . . .

for there shall be no Sodomite applies to sodomy with mankind. [sup]13[/sup] . . .

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Jewish Encyclopedia - Dog

The shamelessness of the dog in regard to sexual life gave rise to the name ("dog") for the class of priests in the service of Astarte who practised sodomy ("kedeshim," called also by the Greeks &#954;&#965;&#957;&#945;&#943;&#948;&#959;&#953;, Deut. xxiii. 19 [A. V. 18]; compare ib. 18 [17] and Rev. xxii. 15; see Driver ad loc.), . . .(see "C. I. S." i., No. 86).

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=415&letter=D

Jewish Encyclopedia - Chastity

(e) The unnatural crimes against chastity, sodomy and pederasty, prevalent in heathendom, were strictly prohibited (Lev. xviii. 22, 23; xx. 13, 15, 16; Deut. xxvii. 21).

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=386&letter=C

Jewish Encyclopedia - DIDACHE -

Dependence upon Jewish Custom.

2: "Thou shalt not commit adultery" (Ex. xx. 14). (This includes: "Thou shalt not commit sodomy nor fornication.") "Thou shalt not steal" (Ex. xx. 15). . . .

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=341&letter=D

Jewish Encyclopedia - Crime

In three cases the person on the point of committing a crime may be killed: where he pursues a neighbor in order to kill him; where he pursues a male to commit sodomy;

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=301&letter=L

Jewish Encyclopedia - The 613 Commandments,: 3347-53.

Adultery, sodomy, etc. Lev. Xviii. 7, 14, 20, 22, 23.

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=689&letter=C​

"We Can't Legitimate Homosexuality Halakhically" (USCJ Review, Spring 2004): Joel Roth

The two verses in the book of (Leviticus (18:22 and 20:13) which deal with homosexuality are really quite clear, despite the efforts of some to call their clarity into question. (Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 absolutely forbid homosexual intercourse between males. The Rabbis, in the Sifra (Aharei Mot 9:8), also understand the Torah to forbid lesbianism. The Torah’s prohibitions, let it be clear, are against actions, like male homosexual intercourse, not against fantasies or attractions.

The Torah and the Rabbis do not distinguish between types of homosexuals in any way... The Rabbis were well able to conceive of monogamous and loving relationships between members of the same sex, and I quote in my paper the texts that prove this beyond reasonable question. But their words cannot possibly be read to imply that such monogamous or loving gay relationships are in a different halakhic [Jewish legal] category than any other relationships between members of the same sex. The prohibition is clear and total.”​

http://www.uscj.org/POINTRoth6331.html

Naomi Grossman, freelance journalist, states in her April 2001 article in Moment Magazine, "The Gay Orthodox Undergound":

"The Torah strictly forbids homosexual sex, and rabbis have consistently upheld that prohibition through the ages... The prohibition against homosexual sex comes from Leviticus: 'Do not lie with a male as one lies with a woman; it is an abhorrence' (18:22). In biblical times, the punishment for violating that code was clear. 'If a man lies with a male as one lies with a woman, the two of them have done an abhorrent thing; they shall be put to death -— their bloodguilt is upon them' (Leviticus 20:13). The Talmud extends the prohibition to lesbian sex [Hilchot Issurei Bi'ah 21:8]."

Official Orthodoxy makes no distinction between the sex act, which the Torah flatly prohibits, and homosexuality as a sexual identity. "Homosexuality is not a state of being in traditional Judaism; it's an act," Freundel says. "Desires are … not relevant."​

http://members.aol.com/gayjews/moment.html​
 
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teen4jesus92

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There are verses in the New Testament against homosexuality as well. I just used that one in the Old Testament because it fit my sentence structure.
I do not hate homosexuals. I cannot speak for everyone else who is in agreement with me over this issue, but I am sure that many, if not all, of them do not hate homosexuals. I would much rather hate murderers or rapists or child molesters, not people who have a different sexual preference than I do. However, that does not mean I disagree with them. I can disagree with homosexuality without being a homophobe and without hating homosexuals.

If you (or anyone) who claims to be a Christian but does not believe the Bible is true in one part (like about homosexuality), then how can you believe that the Bible is true in other parts, like the Virgin birth, the miracles of Jesus, or the matter of grace and faith alone for salvation?
The Bible wasn't translated by people who dropped out of high school. These people go to college for a long time. They study hard. And they work together to deliever a complete and thorough Bible in our language. Sure, they might mess up a little. But how can scholars mess up that many times. There are more than 5 references to homosexuality in the NT alone. Every one is negative.

And thanks goes to Der Alter. I couldn't have said it better myself.
 
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Der Alte

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Thank you. One of the quotes I posted above was written by a Lesbian. Of course, the O.T. condemnation of ALL homosexual acts, male and female, is reiterated in the N.T. but virtually all practicing homosexuals reject the N.T., on this point also. There is one thread here that claims 1 Cor 6:9 is mistranslated. Why? Because some anonymous dood over at a homosexuals-&#1103;-us.com® clone said it was.

The early church interpreted &#945;&#961;&#963;&#949;&#957;&#959;&#954;&#959;&#953;&#964;&#951;&#962;/arsenokoités [1 Cor 6:9] variously as,
• “sodomy,”
• “filth of sodomy,”
• ”lawless lust,”
• “lust,”
• “impurity,”
• “works of the flesh,”
• “carnal,”
• “lawless intercourse,”
• “shameless,”
• “burning with insane love for boys,”
• “licentiousness,”
• “co-habitors with males,”
• “lusters after mankind
• “monstrosities,” etc.​
Quoted from;
• Ignatius, 30-107 AD;
• Polycarp 65 - 155 AD;
• Irenaeus, 120-202 AD;
• Theophilus, 115 - 181 AD;
• Clement of Alexandria, 153 - 217 AD;
• Tertullian, 145-220 AD;
• Cyprian, 200-258 AD; and
• Origen, 185-254 AD.​
Note the dates, of these writings, extend from ca. 50 AD through 258 AD, more than 250 years. The early church fathers interpreted the scriptures as condemning ALL homosexuals acts; by ALL persons, male and female; in ALL places, under ALL circumstance, at ALL times, NO exceptions.

The ECF did NOT even mention, and did NOT limit the condemnation of homosexual acts to, “homosexual rape,” “temple prostitution,” pagan temples and/or religious activities!
Epistle Of Ignatius [Disciple of John] To The Ephesians [A.D. 30-107.]

But as to the practice of magic, or the impure love of boys, or murder, it is superfluous to write to you, since such vices are forbidden to be committed even by the Gentiles. I do not issue commands on these points as if I were an apostle; but, as your fellow-servant, I put you in mind of them.

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.v.html

Epistle of Polycarp [Disciple of John] to the Philippians Chapter V.-The Duties of Deacons, Youths, and Virgins. [65 - 155 AD]

In like manner, let the young men also be blameless in all things, being especially careful to preserve purity, and keeping themselves in, as with a bridle, from every kind of evil. For it is well that they should be cut off from the lusts that are in the world, since "every lust warreth against the spirit; " and "neither fornicators, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, shall inherit the kingdom of God, [1 Cor 6:9] " nor those who do things inconsistent and unbecoming.

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.iv.ii.html

Irenaeus [Disciple of Polycarp]Against Heresies Book V [120-202 AD]

So also he who has continued in the aforesaid works of the flesh, being truly reckoned as carnal, because he did not receive the Spirit of God, shall not have power to inherit the kingdom of heaven. As, again, the same apostle [Paul] testifies, saying to the Corinthians, "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not err," he says: "neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor revilers, nor rapacious persons, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And these ye indeed have been; but ye have been washed, but ye have been sanctified, but ye have been justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God." [1 Cor 6:9].

Since, therefore, in that passage [1 Cor 6:9] he [Paul] recounts those works of the flesh which are without the Spirit, which bring death [upon their doers],

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.ix.html


Theophilus to Autolycus Book III [115 - 181 AD]
Chapter VI.-Other Opinions of the Philosophers.

And these things the other laws of the Romans and Greeks also prohibit. Why, then, do Epicurus and the Stoics teach incest and sodomy, with which doctrines they have filled libraries, so that from boyhood this lawless intercourse is learned?

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf02.iv.ii.iii.html

Clement of Alexandria The Instructor. [Paedagogus.] Book III [153 - 217 AD]

The fate of the Sodomites was judgment to those who had done wrong, instruction to those who hear. The Sodomites having, through much luxury, fallen into uncleanness, practicing adultery shamelessly, and burning with insane love for boys; the All-seeing Word, whose notice those who commit impieties cannot escape, cast His eye on them. . . .Accordingly, the just punishment of the Sodomites became to men an image of the salvation which is well calculated for men.

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf02.vi.iii.iii.html

Clement of Alexandria Exhortation To The Heathen

And what are the laws? “Thou shalt not kill; thou shalt not commit adultery; thou shalt not seduce boys; thou shalt not steal; thou shalt not bear false witness; thou shalt love the Lord thy God.” And the complements of these are those laws of reason and words of sanctity which are inscribed on men’s hearts: “Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself; to him who strikes thee on the cheek, present also the other;” “thou shalt not lust, for by lust alone thou hast committed adultery.”

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf02.vi.ii.html

Clement of Alexandria The Instructor [Paedagogus] Book 1

But life has reached this pitch of licentiousness through the wantonness of wickedness, and lasciviousness is diffused over the cities, having become law. Beside them women stand in the stews, offering their own flesh for hire for lewd pleasure, and boys, taught to deny their sex, act the part of women. Luxury has deranged all things; it has disgraced man. A luxurious niceness seeks everything, attempts everything, forces everything, coerces nature. Men play the part of women, and women that of men, contrary to nature; women are at once wives and husbands: no passage is closed against libidinousness; [i.e. every possible body orifice is used for “lechery”/“libidinousness.”] and their promiscuous lechery is a public institution, and luxury is domesticated.

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf02.vi.iii.i.html

Clement of Alexandria The Instructor - Pedagogos Book 3
Chapter 3
Against Men Who Embellish Themselves

Such was predicted of old, and the result is notorious: the whole earth has now become full of fornication and wickedness. I admire the ancient legislators of the Romans: these detested effeminacy of conduct; and the giving of the body to feminine purposes, contrary to the law of nature, they judged worthy of the extremest penalty, according to the righteousness of the law.

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf02.vi.iii.iii.html

Tertullian On Modesty [145-220 AD]
Chapter XVI.-General Consistency of the Apostle.

Just as, again, among all other crimes-nay, even before all others-when affirming that "adulterers, and fornicators, and effeminates, and co-habitors with males, will not attain the kingdom of God, [1 Cor 6:9]" he premised, "Do not err" -to wit, if you think they will attain it. But to them from whom "the kingdom" is taken away, of course the life which exists in the kingdom is not permitted either. Moreover, by superadding, "But such indeed ye have been; but ye have received ablution, but ye have been sanctified, in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God;" [1 Cor 6:9]

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf04.iii.viii.html

Tertullian The Chaplet, or De Corona. Chapter VI.

Demanding then a law of God, you have that common one [law] prevailing all over the world, engraven on the natural tables to which the apostle too is wont to appeal, as when in respect. of the woman's veil he says, "Does not even Nature teach you? " -as when to the Romans, affirming that the heathen do by nature those things which the law requires, he suggests both natural law and a law-revealing nature. Yes, and also in the first chapter of the epistle [Rom 1.] he authenticates nature, when he asserts that males and females changed among themselves the natural use of the creature into that which is unnatural, by way of penal retribution for their error. [Rom 1:27]

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf03.iv.vi.html

Tertullian VII. On Modesty.[sup]1[/sup] Chapter IV.-Adultery and Fornication Synonymous.

Accordingly, among us, secret connections as well-connections, that is, not first professed in presence of the Church-run risk of being judged akin to adultery and fornication; nor must we let them, if thereafter woven together by the covering of marriage, elude the charge. But all the other frenzies of passions-impious both toward the bodies and toward the sexes-beyond the laws of nature, we banish not only from the threshold, but from all shelter of the Church, because they are not sins, but monstrosities.

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf04.iii.viii.html

Cyprian Treatise XII Three Books of Testimonies Against the Jews [200-258 AD]

65. That all sins are put away in baptism.

In the first Epistle of Paul to the Corinthians: "Neither fornicators, nor those who serve idols, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor the lusters after mankind, nor thieves, nor cheaters, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers, shall obtain the kingdom of God. And these things indeed ye were: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God." [1 Cor 6:9].

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf05.iv.v.xii.html

Origen Against Celsus Book 8 [185-254 AD] [student of Clement of Alexandria]

and that they often exhibit in their character a high degree of gravity, of purity, and
integrity; while those who call themselves wise have despised these virtues, and have wallowed in the filth of sodomy, in lawless lust, “men with men working that which is unseemly.” [Rom 1:27]

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf04.vi.ix.viii.html​
 
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*Starlight*

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Personally, I don't believe in the parts of the Bible which contradict reality.... for example, even though the Bible says in a few places negative things about homosexuality (if the conservative Christian interpretation is right), people at that time didn't know very much about human psychology, so they assumed that having a different sexual orientation than majority must be something wrong and harmful. Now, after lots of research done on the topic of homosexuality. nothing wrong and inherently harmful has been found about it (if you want to read more, look here).

So, for me, the statement "homosexuality is wrong" is an equivalent of "Earth is flat". Both are things that people once believed, but have been proven wrong.....
 
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teen4jesus92

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Rising from the dead, getting pregnant without ever having sex, and water turning into fermented grape juice contradict reality. Could we also say that a place completely free of sin, hurt, pain, and distress contradicts reality? But you believe in the resurrection, the virgin birth, Jesus's miracles, and heaven, right?

2 Timothy 3:16 - "All Scripture is God-breathed." God-breathed means "from the very mouth of God".

If one part of Scripture is not true (not "God-breathed"), can any of it be reliable?
 
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*Starlight*

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The difference is that you're taking about things which happened a long time ago. These things can't be proven or disproven, so it's not against reality to believe them. But when it comes to homosexuality, it's now proven not to be harmful, so there's nothing wrong with it.
 
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teen4jesus92

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Scientifically, miracles are impossible, that should be obvious. (Thankfully, we love and serve a God who exists outside of space, time, and science, but that's not the issue. )
But, you're still missing my point. Personally, I see nothing wrong with working on Sundays and not going to church. It's not proven to be harmful, but according to ten commandments, it's wrong. There are many things that are not proven harmful that are still wrong.
But then again, why take your own/my own opinion? The matter is: Is the Bible true or not? Am I/you/he/she going to obey what the Bible says? Or we going to rely on our opinions? Are we just going to accept the studies that haven't proven much? Are we just going to ignore the scholars and theologists and church fathers who are against homosexuality?

I don't see why we just can't accept the Bible. Without accepting the entire Bible as true - can we be Christians?
 
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*Starlight*

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Well, I don't believe in everything in the Bible, because some things in it are wrong.

Can you give me any reason, apart from "the Bible says so", why homosexuality would be wrong? I mean, if something's wrong, then there must be a reason.
 
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teen4jesus92

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StarJewel said:
Well, I don't believe in everything in the Bible, because some things in it are wrong.

Can you give me any reason, apart from "the Bible says so", why homosexuality would be wrong? I mean, if something's wrong, then there must be a reason.
Click to expand...

Again, if some things are wrong, can any of it matter? Can any of it be true? Is the whole book just a fake?
It's all Bible or no Bible. All God or no God. All Christianity or no Christianity. You cannot pick and choose.

I feel sad, StarJewel, because there's nothing I can do, except argue and debate with you, (which probabaly won't do much). But I hope and pray you would realize, like I did, that you cannot pick and choose. I'm not being cheesy (I know it's hard to tell over the internet). I really feel for you...

It's like a car. Without one part (like the steering wheel, the brakes, the gasoline, the... you name it!) it won't work right. Christianity is not an all-you-can-eat buffet. It's all or nothing.
"I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth." - Revelation 3:15-16 (That's God talking)

You wanted a reason as to why homosexuality is wrong, apart from the Bible. My honest answer: I don't know. (Perhaps some of those in agreement with me have a reason? *hint**hint* LOL)
Anyway, in Isaiah it says, "'For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,' declares the LORD. 'As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts...'"
I know that God has a reason for saying that homosexuality is wrong. Right now I don't know. I hope to find that reason out, either in this life or my soul's life in heaven.
I bet that answer's not good enough for you, and I bet that now you're adding more verses to your "These are the ones I don't believe" list. But I gave it shot. And gave you what I got.

It's all or nothing, my friend. Pick one.
 
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Der Alte

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If "The Bible says so" was good enough for Jesus and the apostles why isn't it good enough for you? Jesus said the equivalent of "The Bible says so, " at least 37 times, and the writers of the NT more than 100.

I can't find the place where Jesus says toss out the Bible if you don't think something is wrong.
Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Matthew 4:7, Matthew 4:10, Matthew 11:10, Matthew 21:13, Matthew 26:24, Matthew 26:31, Matthew 12:3, Matthew 12:5, Matthew 19:4, Matthew 22:31 (10X) Mark 1:2, Mark 7:6, Mark 9:12, Mark 9:13, Mark 11:17, Mark 14:21, Mark 14:27, Mark 12:10, Mark 12:26, (9X) Luke 3:4, Luke 4:4, Luke 4:8, Luke 6:3, Luke 7:27, Luke 10:20, Luke 18:31, Luke 19:46, Luke 20:17, Luke 21:22, Luke 22:37, Luke 24:44, Luke 24:46, (13X) John 6:31, John 6:45, John 8:17, John 10:34, John 15:25 (5X)​
 
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TheFathersDaughter

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Better go give your sacrifice then Der Alter. Because the Bible never LITERALLY says to stop giving sacrifices so they must still be required. Then you better go stone some homosexuals or else you'll be guilty of not giving out God's punishment.

Der Alter, you can't say "DON'T PICK AND CHOOSE" and then say certain things "aren't necessary" or are "just Jewish tradition". That's called picking and choosing. Hypocrisy, as far as I'm concerned, is a greater sin than homosexuality.
 
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IamRedeemed

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One of the things the Word of God teaches us is to have respect for those that are older than us. Why? Well, for one, they just might know more than us. Spiritually speaking, elders can be of various ages. But at age 16, I can imagine there has to be a few of us who are over 40 and have known the Lord for at least 30, and have been studying His Word and walking with Him, just might possess a little more knowledge and spiritual wisdom and understanding.

We are to counsel the whole Word of God. It isn't hypocrisy, nor is it pick and choose when you understand that JESUS FULFILLED the Jewish Laws, which were written anyway as symbols of what the coming Messiah would accomplish and give to us. (this does not mean that God's moral laws have changed)

So, before dogmatically blasting someone, like Der Alter for instance and labeling them a hypocrite, please open your Bible and begin and IN DEPTH study, lest you cause yourself to have reason to be embarrassed.


 
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TheFathersDaughter

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Right, so Christ fulfilled every law except for homosexuality. It was somehow exempt? I can tell you're rather new around here because this is the normal argument and it's the only argument ever presented. I've seen Der Alter in play, and he'll claim both ways. Anything to blame the other person and not have to admit to anything.

I'd suggest practicing what you preach and not assuming so quickly. 16 or not, I've been into the Bible and I've been a Christian as long as many of the adults here.
 
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IamRedeemed

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Oh, is homosexuality the only issue of morality? I wasn't aware of that. Being new around here has no bearing on anything. Human nature hasn't changed. There is nothing new under the sun, only the names and faces change.

By your own admission, you do not even believe the Bible is what you need to be reading in order to come to know Christ, so how much of it could you have read and studied to any benefit in whatever amount of time it has been since you have repented and received Christ? In addition, at only 16 there is no way you could have been born again and studying the Word for 30 years or more, so let's be honest and realistic.



 
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TheFathersDaughter

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I would not admit the Bible to not be the key point in Christianity without reading it love. Just because I don't believe it doesn't mean I haven't read it and it's a fallacy to believe that. Age, as I've said, is just a number. Recall that Mary wasn't even my age and she had wisdom beyond her years when she found out she would be the mother of Christ.

And no, human nature never changes. Yet when I try to point out attitudes so similar to the Pharisees I'm told I'm wrong or that the attitude doesn't exist anymore. There's no such thing as taking advantage of your religion and there's no such thing as a bad use of the Bible. Slavery of the 19th century, the Crusades and the imbalance of gender and race related rights never happened or had no religious imput whatsoever. The Bible is not always a good tool which is why I don't trust it. I put all my trust in God. I let HIM lead me. The Bible is a guild to inspire you as it was inspired, not as a "here's the rules on how to live" literal rulebook. If that were the case God wouldn't even need to exist.
 
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IamRedeemed

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This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
1 Timothy 3:1-5



Jesus is the Word of God
No Bible= No Jesus



 
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MercyBurst

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savedandhappy1 said:
I'm not sure if that's a good idea because I don't believe that the death card really means that. I believe that they didn't understand death as we understand it today, so they couldn't have a card that really goes with the culture of today.
Click to expand...

How about a loving ho-monogamous nurturing relationship card? That should make a good spritual death card.
 
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MercyBurst

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Pampered christianity is not really christianity at all. When I say "pampered christianity", I mean it's all about love and feeling good, and nothing about commitment through a change of heart.

Remember the parable of the sower in Luke 8:
Here is the same thing in Matthew:

The good news of God's free gift brings joy to the pampered so-called christian, but when temptation comes along, or when it actually costs them something, they cop out. They are spiritual cheap skates.

They claim they have God's love, but they have no root in themselves. If the word really took root, then sinful lifestyles would be a big issue, but they yield to temptation without even calling it sin. They're just kidding themselves.

Christians shouldn't argue about what sin is, we should ALL know and agree. Otherwise our Father is no good. Do you think He gives us rules to make us miserable? He gives us rules like any good parent that wants the best for us.
 
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