I don't know who to listen to

JAL said:

Without infallible prophetic revelation, NONE of us can be sure of having sound doctrine. We are stranded in the quagmire of our own fallible interpretations of Scripture.

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We are already split every which way as Christians, using the revealed word of God and the experience of the church through time for our guides. Therefore, adding "universal prophethood" into the mix can only make the situation less clear.

The Pentecostals that I know use KJV. Spiritual gifts are still relevant, however God doesn't grant the same ones to everyone. As far as the bible goes, I've been using my parallel bible with the AMP and KJV side by side. I also like the NIV. I don't like the Message translation so I avoid that one.

JohnB445 said:

There are 2 Bible teachers I go to.

one is a Baptist and the other is a Pentecostal, and they both are contradicting each other.

1. The Baptist one says use the KJV, the Pentecostal says use the ESV

2. The Baptist says don't go seeking the spiritual gifts since they ceased, the Pentecostal says to seek the spiritual gifts because they are still here for today

3. The Baptist says I am eternally secure, the Pentecostal says that it is possible for me to later on reject Christ and be cut off forever.

Ok how do I know which one is lying to me? Why did God make finding truth so difficult?

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That is why you have a Bible. So you can find out the answer yourself.

JohnB445 said:

Ok how do I know which one is lying to me?

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Why do we need doctrines when Jesus' Gospel of the Kingdom was clear?

JohnB445 said:

There are 2 Bible teachers I go to.

one is a Baptist and the other is a Pentecostal, and they both are contradicting each other.

1. The Baptist one says use the KJV, the Pentecostal says use the ESV

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English Bible translation preferences is neither a Baptist nor a Pentecostal thing, it's not a denominational thing. The subject is a rather long one, and involves the field of Biblical criticism. I could hook you up with a good resource if you desired.

JohnB445 said:

2. The Baptist says don't go seeking the spiritual gifts since they ceased, the Pentecostal says to seek the spiritual gifts because they are still here for today

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Things have really changed on the issue of spiritual gifts. There are baptists like Pastor John Piper who do not believe in the ceasation of spiritual gifts. Baptists like John Piper take a cautiously optimistic approach. Today there are many denominations which were once ceasationists but have groups, congregations, sub-divisions which are cautiously optimistic about spiritual gifts, especially cautious concerning tongues and prophecy.

JohnB445 said:

3. The Baptist says I am eternally secure, the Pentecostal says that it is possible for me to later on reject Christ and be cut off forever.

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I used to be on the Pentecostal side of this, but after many years came to agree with the Baptist position. Both can make a case from Scripture, one problem is people tend to isolate doctrines, without looking at how they overlap and relate to one another.

JohnB445 said:

how do I know which one is lying to me? Why did God make finding truth so difficult?

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We might be easily bored and less understanding of others if everything were spelled out plainly. Remember Jesus spoke in parables for a reason.

HTacianas said:

Honestly, I wouldn't listen to either one of them. As far as bibles go, what would either of them say of a person who uses neither, but uses the original Greek?

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I am inclined to agree, I experienced a bit the tug of war between two sides only it was over the NIV versus KJV. Both were tending to reject me if I didn't pick and stick to the version they favoured.

Now I have four or five versions each of which I consult from time to time: KJV, NIV Study, Amplified, The Message, and Phillips Letters to New Testament churches.

I also like using BibleHub online.

JohnB445 said:

There are 2 Bible teachers I go to.

one is a Baptist and the other is a Pentecostal, and they both are contradicting each other.

1. The Baptist one says use the KJV, the Pentecostal says use the ESV

2. The Baptist says don't go seeking the spiritual gifts since they ceased, the Pentecostal says to seek the spiritual gifts because they are still here for today

3. The Baptist says I am eternally secure, the Pentecostal says that it is possible for me to later on reject Christ and be cut off forever.

Ok how do I know which one is lying to me? Why did God make finding truth so difficult?

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I don't think they are lying they just have different understandings, are coming down on different sides in an age old debate. God didn't make it difficult, but truth can be paradoxical, and sin makes us slow to understand.

I think the Pentecostal lady is correct though in that one cannot know if a new christian will continue in the faith until their faith has been tried.

As regards the Bible why not have a copy of both versions?

JohnB445 said:

There are 2 Bible teachers I go to.

one is a Baptist and the other is a Pentecostal, and they both are contradicting each other.

1. The Baptist one says use the KJV, the Pentecostal says use the ESV

2. The Baptist says don't go seeking the spiritual gifts since they ceased, the Pentecostal says to seek the spiritual gifts because they are still here for today

3. The Baptist says I am eternally secure, the Pentecostal says that it is possible for me to later on reject Christ and be cut off forever.

Ok how do I know which one is lying to me? Why did God make finding truth so difficult?

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You are going to men to seek your answers when you should be going to the Father directly with the power of His Holy Spirit. In this case both denominations have things wrong but you will need to search out the scriptures yourself!!!

Albion said:

We are already split every which way as Christians, using the revealed word of God and the experience of the church through time for our guides. Therefore, adding "universal prophethood" into the mix can only make the situation less clear.

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So if we all had Paul's gift of inspiration whereby he wrote Romans, we would all have LESS clarity of doctrine? Apparently you don't think very highly of that gift.

That being the case, why read Scripture? If the gift that wrote Scripture isn't reliable, and only creates more fog, why look to its byproduct?

Maria Billingsley said:

You are going to men to seek your answers when you should be going to the Father directly with the power of His Holy Spirit. In this case both denominations have things wrong but you will need to search out the scriptures yourself!!!

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Yes. Man carries on in the tradition of redefining good and evil taken from the Tree of Knowledge to suit their needs by likewise continually taking what is simple and confusing it in order to make themselves important as diviners of truth. Had God wanted this He would have kept Jesus at home and left salvation up to the priests. (made myself laugh)

JohnB445 said:

There are 2 Bible teachers I go to.

one is a Baptist and the other is a Pentecostal, and they both are contradicting each other.

1. The Baptist one says use the KJV, the Pentecostal says use the ESV

2. The Baptist says don't go seeking the spiritual gifts since they ceased, the Pentecostal says to seek the spiritual gifts because they are still here for today

3. The Baptist says I am eternally secure, the Pentecostal says that it is possible for me to later on reject Christ and be cut off forever.

Ok how do I know which one is lying to me? Why did God make finding truth so difficult?

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The Spirit of Christ is a simple Truth that Loves others as you would want to be loved. Scripture is summed up in Love God with all your heart mind and soul and your neighbor as yourself. There's nothing difficult about this Truth, but there are powers of darkness that would seek to obscure and subvert what is actually simple to understand.

JohnB445 said:

...
Ok how do I know which one is lying to me? Why did God make finding truth so difficult?

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But why not follow Jesus directly? I think it would be much better choice to follow Jesus directly and listen to what he teaches in the Bible.

JohnB445 said:

There are 2 Bible teachers I go to.

one is a Baptist and the other is a Pentecostal, and they both are contradicting each other.

1. The Baptist one says use the KJV, the Pentecostal says use the ESV

2. The Baptist says don't go seeking the spiritual gifts since they ceased, the Pentecostal says to seek the spiritual gifts because they are still here for today

3. The Baptist says I am eternally secure, the Pentecostal says that it is possible for me to later on reject Christ and be cut off forever.

Ok how do I know which one is lying to me? Why did God make finding truth so difficult?

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Many years ago when I began to seriously question what it is I believe, what I should believe, why (etc) I became very interested in several different things, two of those things were:

1) Reading and studying the Scriptures for myself, and reflecting on what I was reading with what other wizened voices in the Christian Church have said, not just modern ones, I mean ancient and historic voices. It seemed natural to me that if what I was reading seemed to be saying something, and that something is what was consistently being found throughout the various generations of Christians over the last two millennia, then I was quite probably on the right track.

2) A thorough study of Church history, and reading ancient Christian sources, i.e. the Church fathers. Reading the history gave context to the writings of the fathers and to the historic Creeds of the Church. My understanding of where I came from as a Christian grew exponentially.

I also spent a lot of time discussing (and debating) with Christians from a wide variety of backgrounds. Learning about what other Christians believed (as opposed to what others simply told me what they believed), discovering insights I hadn't considered before, learning to find common ground on many issues, and letting myself be challenged to learn more, dig deeper.

That was a journey that began for me about 16 years ago, and it is still ongoing. I am still being challenged, I am still finding common ground, I am still learning new things, I am still being educated by others. I am still a student.

I won't tell you what to believe, I could tell you what I believe but that wouldn't be helpful for what you are asking here. Instead I want to offer some advice based on my own experiences.

Investigate. What are things which have historically been believed? What are the common beliefs among most Christians? If something is ancient and also accepted by the majority of Christians even today, then that's a good thing. While old and common does not mean something is automatically true, it's certainly a better marker than someone just saying something new which nobody else has ever believed before. Just a little common sense and critical thinking can go a long way.

Nobody is infallible, neither are you--so if you come to different views than someone else that's fine. It's okay to disagree, it's okay to argue, it's okay to even get into heated debates on these subjects. But always be willing to challenge your own beliefs, and look into these things. Find the confidence and verity of your beliefs through diligence, prayer, and a willingness to be wrong. No one gets everything right, all of us are wrong about some things, that is inevitably going to be the case because we are only human.

Be curious. Stay inquisitive. Let yourself learn. And remember it's okay to be wrong.

-CryptoLutheran

JohnB445 said:

Doesn't God speak through people?

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Sometimes. But you are going to have to work out some of this yourself. You probably have a preference in which translation you use, which do you find clearest?

I have several versions including the KJV. I don't feel I need an ESV myself, as I already have three or four modern versions. Older versions sometimes lack the verve they had for readers back in earlier centuries. Presuming you have had some conversations with the Pentecostal pastor, maybe she recommended that version on the basis of what you have told her about yourself? Its best to follow a bible reading in the version the Pastor is using.

1. I use both the KJV and ESV, as I believe them to be accurate to the original texts.
2. I don't know enough about this to say one way or another.
3. Whether or not you are truly saved is between you and God. If you fall away, you were never saved to begin with.

JohnB445 said:

There are 2 Bible teachers I go to.

one is a Baptist and the other is a Pentecostal, and they both are contradicting each other.

1. The Baptist one says use the KJV, the Pentecostal says use the ESV

2. The Baptist says don't go seeking the spiritual gifts since they ceased, the Pentecostal says to seek the spiritual gifts because they are still here for today

3. The Baptist says I am eternally secure, the Pentecostal says that it is possible for me to later on reject Christ and be cut off forever.

Ok how do I know which one is lying to me? Why did God make finding truth so difficult?

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And when you study the Bible closely you'll see they neither mirror the Bible.
Study the Bible and then find a church that follows the Bible. Everything else doesn't matter.
In Him

JohnB445 said:

There are 2 Bible teachers I go to.

one is a Baptist and the other is a Pentecostal, and they both are contradicting each other.

1. The Baptist one says use the KJV, the Pentecostal says use the ESV

2. The Baptist says don't go seeking the spiritual gifts since they ceased, the Pentecostal says to seek the spiritual gifts because they are still here for today

3. The Baptist says I am eternally secure, the Pentecostal says that it is possible for me to later on reject Christ and be cut off forever.

Ok how do I know which one is lying to me? Why did God make finding truth so difficult?

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I'm sorry you've mostly got advice on which one of these is the right one, because I think those issues are peripheral to the question at the bottom.

I think you're a fairly new Christian, right? From this and your other threads it sounds like you're getting caught up in a lot of the debates on side issues among Christians and not focusing on learning the truths about salvation and building your relationship with your Savior? Did you become a Christian because of a perfect doctrine, or a perfect Person? I'm not saying these things aren't important, but if they're causing you so much turmoil, then maybe that's a sign you're not in a place to be dealing with it right now. If you're still building your Biblical knowledge, then maybe that should be your focus. I would choose the one teacher that seems the most accurate to you, based on your knowledge of Scripture and where you feel the Holy Spirit leading, and stop learning from both if it's causing you this much turmoil.

Christ said "Peace I leave with you; my peace I give to you. Not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your hearts be troubled, neither let them be afraid. (John 14:27)." If you don't have that peace, you need to examine yourself and ask why.

JohnB445 said:

If I had to flip a coin I think I would go with the Pentecostal, because she claims she had been divinely healed and has the miracle of speaking in tongues.

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If you're not sure about either of them, look for another teacher to consult instead of/as well as them.

JohnB445 said:

But if I am deceived then I am damned, and I don't want to bear the cost.

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Why do you think you'll be damned for not believing in, or having experienced, the gift of tongues and healing?

JohnB445 said:

But if the Baptist is wrong, then I am damned at the same time.

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You won't be damned because of your preference for a certain translation of Scripture.
You won't be damned for not speaking in tongues.
If you are born again and in Christ, NOTHING can snatch you from the Father's hands, John 10:29, and NOTHING can separate you from his love, Romans 8:38-39.

LoveofTruth said:

The KJV is the bible you should use

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A Christian may use any translation of Scripture that they choose - or even a mixture of translations.

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