Hurt

Observer · Sep 4, 2006

I need to talk to someone who won't attack me... well, it's not like it's a conversation to type a post on here, but sometimes it gives people comfort to type into a box knowing that someone will read it and maybe understand them, so that's why I'm here. I just need someone to understand me... my fiance always says that he understands me when we're arguing, but if he really understood me, he wouldn't be against me and everything I say... I don't think he really understands what "understanding" truly is. I wish I didn't feel the need to be understood by him and be treated well by him... because it hurts so bad to crave acceptance, understanding and compassion from someone who can be so selfish and so hurtful and who you know almost every time, they're going to throw you back and reject everything you say and just keep attacking you no matter what you say or how you feel or how much you cry in front of them. Not long ago he said that the reason I start crying is just a manipulative tool I use to try and get sympathy from him... he's just so... I can't explain him... he just hurts me so much... more than anyone has hurt me before. There are SO many unresolved things that he's done to me that I still feel pain over, and they can never be resolved because he won't acknowledge that it happened at all and he always feels he's innocent in almost every situation. I can be too loud in an argument because I get so stressed and upset, and I can say mean things, I'm not some innocent angel but I fele like I work harder in our relationship than he does. I feel like I put so much more effort into us being connected and happy together, and I feel like he just floats along waiting to feel connected, and is always ready to attack me or be rude to me, or mean or selfish or anything he feels like expressing at the time. He makes me feel like it's impossible for us to be connected and loving on a regular basis because he contributes so much to the separation in our relationship. It's gotten to the point where I feel afraid of him... I feel so scared that I'm not going to get his approval and acceptance that I become this... I don't know... I constantly watch him out of the corner of my eye waiting for him to pull a face or sigh about something I've done or said and I'm just petrified that he's going to go into one of his moods and treat me like garbage because it happens so regularly now. He's more likely to be in a bad mood than a good one, and I compensate so much by forcing myself to act overly happy to try and cheer him up ALL. THE. TIME. I'm always "Happy Jenn" desperately trying to make him smile or laugh to avoid being treated like garbage. I honestly feel like maybe what he does to me is abusive because it's giving me such low self esteem because he treats me like I'm so below him. He would never treat himself or anyone else the way he treats me. He would never do this to his friends or his mother or even a stranger at a cash register... he's always SO polite to everyone else, I've never met anyone as polite and friendly as him when we go shopping together... but then I'm the lucky one that gets glared at and receives all the irritation like some punching bag when we get somewhere less public. I tell him he hurts me and basically he says something like this: "No, of course I don't think you're just imagining it all, I understand that it must feel very real to you" and other condescending pathetic things like that. He just denies that any of it happens and puts it all down to me misreading everything. I'm not psychotic... I don't see how anyone could be meaning anything else for them to misread when they treat you like dirt and say horrible things to you. Our problems can NEVER be resolved because he will NEVER acknowledge anything happening. He always says how I bring thing sup from the past and I don't have the right to do that and said I forgave him, but how can I NOT bring them up when he does them OVER AND OVER and doesn't appologise or acknowledge what happened?! I personally can't truly forgive someone when they're STILL hurting me with the same thing. I try to forgive and I AM a very forgiving person but it's just too much when I start to feel like he's destroying me. I can't just forgive that and move on... there's nothing to move onto... he's not interested in fixing anything... he just keeps arguing his point that he didn't do anything wrong. I feel like I'm a good person... I try really hard in this relationship to keep us together, but I can't be the only one that holds it all together, it's so stressful and I just keep breaking down and crying, it's too much for me to handle and I feel so so so so so so so so so alone and isolated and I can't believe someone who calls himself my emotional and spiritual husband would treat me like this. The most recent thing that he's hurt me with is something to do with computers. My mum came home with 3 computers from her work because they weren't using them anymore. Even though I felt a bit jealous because I've never had a "good" computer, I wanted him to have a really good computer because he needs it for music he makes and he'd appreciate it. So, he took all the good stuff and made himself a computer that's at the same level as something you'd buy from a store, and mine is still slow and tiny, but I reallly appreciated it because he built it for me and spent time on it anyway. So, it's a few days later and he's been on his comp for like 6 hours. I ask him if I can have half an hour on his for e-mails and whatever because I didn't really have a desk or anything to put mine on, and his is a lot faster, mine is frustratingly slow. He gets mad at me, says he doesn't have to let me use his property and tells me to go and set up my own. I just got so upset because I'd been generous by saying he should have the good computer, and he was so selfish and didn't want to share even for 30 minutes. I figured since he got the good one that I could use it a little bit sometimes. When I ask for something little, he acts like he's been on the comp for 1 minute and I've come in demanding 10 hours on it... why does he feel like he has the right to treat me like that?!?!?! Why does he even WANT to?! If you love someone, why would you treat them like that? I always get punishment for something extremely wrong even though I've only done something little. I can't believe I'm talking like asking for 30 minutes is a "little bit wrong" anyway! IT'S NOT WRONG AT ALL! I think he's starting to make me feel like wanting anything for myself is always wrong, cause that's how he treats it. Sorry for rambling about the details, but just explaining that ONE situation explains pretty much ALL of the times he's hurt me. He doesn't give me any respect and he's very selfish. Just recently he said he'd come for a walk with me, because I wanted to do it together because he'd been on the computer for hours and hadn't been spending any time with me. He said he would, so I waited... 2 hours passed... I ask if he's still coming... 3 hours... 4 hours... until it's NIGHT time and cold outside and I really wanted to get some sunlight for once. I go in and say, hey, it's dark, I really wanted to go for a walk... then he acts all irritated and starts getting dressed to come for a walk with me... I start trying to tell him that I think it's kind of selfish and disrespectful to make me wait for such a long time... then he acts angry and tells me it's a privilege for him to come for a walk with me at all. And he justifies all this behaviour and all the hurtful things he says to me somehow, by arguing in circles and twisting everuything to make it seem like everything he did was justified and I deserved it for doing something wrong. I feel like I can't even sit next to him without irritating him in some way. Sometimes he can't keep his hands off me and treats me so nice and tells me I'm beautiful and all of that typical romance type stuff, and the rest of the time he's just horrible to me. I'm just so hurt, and then so frustrated when he acts like none of it happened. Sorry, I've gone on and on but I have no one to talk to because I have absolutely no friends... it's pathetic really. I feel so dependent on him and I just wish I didn't. I WILL be totally and utterly dependent on him soon, because we'll be going back to his town in America soon. I'm Australian and I've never gone overseas and I have lots of emotional and health problems so it's going to be a huge stress for me and I honestly don't know if I can trust him to be able to support me emotionally and be a partner to me... I don't feel safe with him. He doesn't physically abuse me or cheat or any of those typically abusive things, there's some things that he's just not and would never do... but there are also abusive things that he DOES do, because he doesn't even view them as abusive... so I just do not feel safe with him and I feel so hurt. He's a Christian, but I'm not... but I try to follow God and I try to help him to treat me better by being a good example and treating him well, but I don't feel like I have the energy anymore to be treating someone so well when they regularly snap at me and treat me like I'm worthless and below them. He'd deny he does any of this though of course.

I'll understand if no one has anything to say about my post, I don't know how I'd reply to it, it makes me seem petty and immature to go on about it... but it did make me feel better to be able to say all of it without him talking over me and saying none of it's true... so... thanks to anyone who actually sat there and read it, heh

Ead · Sep 4, 2006

This seems to me like a case of one-sided dependance, as you have seemed to have figure out. A good relationship is symbiotic, meaning both partners help and rely on each other for mutual benifit (AKA, being happy together and helping each other out). What is happening right now is you have givin him the idea that no matter what he does, its fine with you. This might have happened because you said you do nice things for him and act happy all the time, while on the inside your torn up. This actually will make him lazy, thinking that he doesnt have to work to keep the relationship going, which might be what is happening now.

I know that we all want to shower our snuggle-buddies with gifts and nice happy lil things It not only makes them feel good, but it makes ourself feel good because they feel good. But, like with the computer, his gratitude did not last long, thus making your gift a seemingly worthless endevor. What you did with that computer was very, very, very nice =D I wish i could put together three computers into one >.< But, just the effort you put into that is enough for anyone to be grateful every time they use it. His problem may be the relationship laziness, where he consciously or subconsiously believes that you were obligated in doing that for him, which is far from the truth. By every right, you should have gotten the new computer, but out of your love for him you offered it to him. And in return, you get nothing but more stress from him.

I know this sounds kinda weird, but in a relationship, the partners need to train each other a bit =P Say, for instance, that i dont like mexican food. My girlfriend brings home a buncha tacos and anchalattas or whatever funky food there is and says "Eat up". Well, i got two choices. I can eat it, say nothing, and get my hated food over and over and over again, or i can speak up and say i really dont like it, can we have some chinese food?

It seems like an easy choice, but only in practice. Subconsiously, we all think that disagreeing with our lovers will cause them to become upset or sad or angry at you, even if its the little things. This keeps us from speaking up, and thus we recieve the same treatment over and over again, in this cause more tacos -.- The only way to fix this problem is a simple, yet very tough, conversation about how you feel about it.

Yes. Every relationship needs to talk about thier feelings. It sounds girlish, but i am a guy and i know how important it is. Without that connection of someone understanding and comforting you on how you feel about the world, your connection as buddies becomes just in name. Every week at least, you guys should sit down and talk. Actually, every day would be better But it can be talk about anything. But once in awhile, you gotta talk about how you feel about things! Don't get angry when you talk about how you hate it when he leaves to toliet seat up, or when he leaves dirty clothes strewn about the house like a tornado hit it. Just calmly tell him the things that annoy or hurt you, then offer up an alternitive. Then ask him what he thinks about your solution, and if he disagrees, converse until you both can come to a sutable and comfortable solution, together. Also, if he is relucant in changing his ways, ask him about something he wants you to change. Like how you vaccume the walls every day or try to flip ten pancakes and only one gets to the table =P

I warn you, however, dont tell him "I hate it when you treat me badly". That hurts his feelings, and in turn, he may get defensive. Tell him that you cry alot when he hurts your feelings, or ignores you, or does anything else that makes you feel bad about yourself. Be gentle, yet strong in what you say. If he says "No i dont act like an ass", dont say "Well, i GUESS you dont act like an ass then..." No, you have to stick ot what you say. Its tough, but its a kinda battle of wills. And for a long time, his will has dominated over yours, instead of both wills working together. But remember always to be nice about it. Never intentionally hurt his feelings. And if you tell him about the computer and all the other things and how it made you feel, he will not get offended unless he has anger issues. Which i dont think he does, hes just lazy =P

Espessially talk about the moving issue. That is probably the most important event that is coming up for you guys, and thus need to be talked about. Tell him how you feel about everything, and then say how that makes you nervous about moving. Just keep your cool, dont bend your needs to suit his, and be brave. Its really hard, i wont lie, but it will insure your relationship will not die out like so many others. All you need to do is talk and try to keep the romance alive.

AvgJoe · Sep 4, 2006

Based on what you've said, if I were in your shoes, he would not be my fiance and our wedding would be canceled until he attended marriage counseling with me and started treating right and I certainly would not even be considering moving to another country with him. Also, if he is truly a Christian, he is an immature Christian. A big part of becoming a Christian is to stop living for 'self' and to start living for God. We are to do this by being servants to others.

Marks of the True Christian

Philippians 2:3-5(NASB)
3) Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind regard one another as more important than yourselves; 4) do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others. 5) Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus,

Romans 12:16-18(ESV)
16) Live in harmony with one another. Do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly. Never be conceited. 17) Repay no one evil for evil, but give thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all. 18) If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all.

Following is what God's word, the Bible, has to say about love:

1 Corinthians 13:4-7(ESV)
4) Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant 5) or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; 6) it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. 7) Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

This is the love of God and is to be the love of the Christian, also. Especially for one's fiance/spouse.

I hope the following eBooks will be helpful to you. It may take a couple of minutes for each one to load.

http://www.rbc.org/uploadedFiles/Bi...Much_Escaping_The_Control_Of_Codependency.pdf - When We Love Too Much: Escaping The Control Of Codependency
http://www.rbc.org/uploadedFiles/Bible_Study/Discovery_Series/PDFs/When_Words_Hurt.pdf - When Words Hurt
http://www.rbc.org/uploadedFiles/Bible_Study/Discovery_Series/PDFs/what_does_god_expect_of_a_man.pdf - What Does God Expect Of A Man?

God bless!

heron · Sep 6, 2006

The longer you live under this, the weaker you will allow yourself to be. I agree with most of what was said above,
except the comment about one-sided dependence. Because he's extremely dependent on you, just not in the same way. He is probably treating you just like he treated his mother --you're there to take care of him and keep him happy.

Please, please, please delay the trip, no matter what it costs. Delay any sort of commitments you've made. A marriage takes up the entire remains of your life.

Keep testing the waters by standing up for yourself, and not feeling guilty. See how he reacts, and take the inner stance that you have as much right as he does. If he can tough it out and give in occasionally, then you might develop something healthy over time. But right now, he sounds like a terrible destructive force on your life!

Here are some things I think people should look for in a spouse:

1. Do they support you in your aspirations and goals? Not just verbally, but in allowing you time and space to pursue them. Now, not in theory.

2. I feel like stopping here, because if that one doesn't pass, then many of the other ones won't either. (-;

You pursued something that seemed right at the time. Let it be what it was, and don't kick yourself for getting into it. Don't expect that with a little work, you can fix this to perfection. We can't change people's motives (or lack of them).

He is selfish. It will take an anvil falling out of the sky for him to get that.

He says he understands you because he's heard that's what women want to hear.

You are not crying out of manipulation. I don't know where men get this from, but women spontaneously cry to release toxins that have built up... usually because they'd worked so hard to be nice.

TexasGirl06 · Sep 7, 2006

observer..... If this man is treating you like this before you are married, it will likely get a lot worse after you are married.

You need to make some big decisions.

You were created by God.
He loves you so much.
He wants you to know him, intimately....

He has an awesome plan for your life !

Do you know anything about God....and His Son Jesus?

I would be glad to tell you about him.

You just ask.

heron · Sep 8, 2006

TexasGirl06 said:
If this man is treating you like this before you are married, it will likely get a lot worse after you are married.

So true. It probably sounds cliche right now... people in a relationship usually feel that outsiders don't understand/grasp the depth of their devotion to each other.

But having watched many marriages fall apart, I'd say you can count on it. If you saw a bf treat someone else poorly (while treating you well), you can guess that on a bad year, he will use that same treatment toward you.

This is not just about love, but about planning for your future. What will your life look like two years from now... ten... twenty. When all is said and done, will you have lived the life you had hoped to?

Catherineanne · Sep 8, 2006

Observer said:
Not long ago he said that the reason I start crying is just a manipulative tool I use to try and get sympathy from him... he's just so... I can't explain him... he just hurts me so much... more than anyone has hurt me before.

Even without the rest of your post, this would be enough. This man is abusing you, and you need to understand that. He is not going to stop, and the only way to prevent this from carrying on is to stop it yourself. If you do not, he will continue the abuse, and when you have children, he will abuse them as well, in the same way.

Imagine for a moment that you have a small child, and that your child begins to cry. What reasons would you think of for that crying? Pain? Hunger? Upset? All of these are valid. How about their dad coming along and sneering at their manipulation? I do not believe in violence, but I would be very tempted to reach for the rolling pin at that point, if that happened in my home.

However, his words give you a big clue as to his worst failing. People often accuse those around them of sins which they are themselves prone to, but cannot accept in themselves. So your most selfish friend, when upset with you, will accuse you of being selfish. (Just as, on a more positive note, your most generous friend will commend your generosity. )

Understanding this situation more fully will take time, and energy, from you, but you have taken the first step towards understanding what he is doing. Now you might like to find out why.

I suggest you search under the following headings, and have some 'fun' discovering about abusive people, and how best to respond to them:

Emotional abuse
Abusive behaviour
Domestic abuse
Narcissism

I agree with the others who recommend postponing any plans you may have for coming months.

heron · Sep 8, 2006

I know how hard it is to think of friends as abusers, especially when they're young adults. But look at statistics, then look at your high school class. All of these cases had to come from somewhere.

Romantic love is not so valuable that you should destroy your life over it.

1 out of 3 women around the world has been beaten, coerced into sex or otherwise abused during her lifetime.
1 in 5 female high school students reports being physically and/or sexually abused by a dating partner. Abused girls are significantly more likely to get involved in other risky behaviors. They are 4 to 6 times more likely to get pregnant and 8 to 9 times more likely to have tried to commit suicide
1 in 3 teens reports knowing a friend or peer who has been hit, punched, slapped, choked or physically hurt by his/her partner.
37% of all women who sought care in hospital emergency rooms for violencerelated injuries were injured by a current or former spouse, boyfriend or girlfriend.

http://www.ndvh.org/educate/abuse_in_america.html

I'm not implying that he's physically violent, but look at the numbers -- very few people are exempt from getting hurt. I'm sure that he has many great qualities too, or else you wouldn't have been drawn to him.

Some of the problems sound like typical guy things, but it's still unhealthy.

Think back to this spring, when you were looking forward to seeing him! (If I remember this correctly.) You wouldn't have known how annoying he could be if you hadn't taken that risk. This was a trial time, and it paid off.

If you canceled your plans, you'd have to explain any changes to a long list of people...some of which might be waiting to say "I told you these long distance things..." --whatever-- and some of which might have helped you plan the wedding. I don't know if you got that far. But a wedding is just a party (you know what I mean), and friends and family will still love you. They'll get over it.

You don't need to defend your past decisions. Just make good ones when you can.

http://www.ncjrs.org/txtfiles1/nij/181867.txt
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/cgi/medlinep...rtments/dept_notice.cfm?recno=17&bulletin=198 Identifying Domestic Violence
American Bar Association
This one's good.

Violence Against Women: Checklist for Leaving an Abuser
National Women's Health Information Center

Are You Being Abused?
American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists

US DOJ Research and Statistical Publications on Domestic Violence

EmbracingHim · Sep 16, 2006

Observer,

Women usually do tend to the relationship more than men do (not always). Men tend to focus their energy on work, outside entertainment/sports/focuses, etc.

While it is often written by psychologists and relational experts that men are more logic driven and females more emotional...I disagree, but agree with the outcome concerning our complimentary differences as women and men.

Men tend to 'hold back' emotions and keep their focus on things they feel are more productive...in doing so they can absolutely ignore the 'emotional' needs of their mates.

Again this is not 'all' -- but a generalization for a large number of men only. While percentages are not known...psychological data supports this conclusion (although I disagree with the overall majority opinion, in that I believe women to be both logical and emotionally driven, while men are taught to suppress their emotions).

Two things I pick up from what you wrote: 1. your fiance' might have a computer addiction rather than desiring to let you down in anyway. 2. I haven't heard his feelings.

It is clear you are hurting. It is clear that mature men who submit to Christ are more available and understanding of another's needs. That is not who you are in love with though.

You need to as stated here re-evaluate why you are in love and engaged. As well so does your fiance' because the pendalum swings both ways in a relationship.

You indeed need to guard yourself from emotional abuse from others...as well as...from yourself.

Prayers for your situation and that God might show you which path to take in this relationship formed. Not all should marry merely because they love the other. You are in the prime of your life and the Lord is watching over you. With the two noted observations above...I can not give advice on a situation I hold only one opinion of, but I can and do ask that God's Will will be done in your situation and ask that you know that you are loved by Him above all on this earth.

God bless you.

Kehaar · Sep 16, 2006

Catherineanne said:
Even without the rest of your post, this would be enough. This man is abusing you, and you need to understand that. He is not going to stop, and the only way to prevent this from carrying on is to stop it yourself. If you do not, he will continue the abuse, and when you have children, he will abuse them as well, in the same way.

Imagine for a moment that you have a small child, and that your child begins to cry. What reasons would you think of for that crying? Pain? Hunger? Upset? All of these are valid. How about their dad coming along and sneering at their manipulation? I do not believe in violence, but I would be very tempted to reach for the rolling pin at that point, if that happened in my home.

However, his words give you a big clue as to his worst failing. People often accuse those around them of sins which they are themselves prone to, but cannot accept in themselves. So your most selfish friend, when upset with you, will accuse you of being selfish. (Just as, on a more positive note, your most generous friend will commend your generosity. )

Understanding this situation more fully will take time, and energy, from you, but you have taken the first step towards understanding what he is doing. Now you might like to find out why.

I suggest you search under the following headings, and have some 'fun' discovering about abusive people, and how best to respond to them:

Emotional abuse
Abusive behaviour
Domestic abuse
Narcissism

I agree with the others who recommend postponing any plans you may have for coming months.

I have to agree.

I know this is hard to deal with, I know it's extremely difficult to see straight when you're in the middle of this kind of relationship. I was in a very similar situation to the one you describe just over two years ago and only now am I starting to come to terms with the abuse that went on - it started out as emotional abuse and eventually progressed to physical and I worry because I see the same pattern in what you have said.

What is happening is cruelty, it's manipulation, it's selfish, it's controlling behaviour - it is NOT love.

I know this may seem hurtful but I really would urge you leave this relationship. I stayed because I thought it could be worked out, because, as odd as it may sound, I thought I could try to fix it, I tried to normalise it. I convinced myself it wasn't that bad, I made excuses for his behaviour. It was easier than dealing with the hurt, fear and loss of control.

I know it will hurt, I've been through it, but this will only continue to damage you if you stay.

Don't stand for a man who puts his own interests and well being above your own, or gets his kicks out of control. Don't accept someone who won't respect you, who gets aggresive because you disagree with them. Don't stand for anyone who wants to impose their will on you.

Please feel free to PM me if you need anything.

1Cor13v13 · Sep 16, 2006

Endless Song said:
I have to agree.

I know this is hard to deal with, I know it's extremely difficult to see straight when you're in the middle of this kind of relationship. I was in a very similar situation to the one you describe just over two years ago and only now am I starting to come to terms with the abuse that went on - it started out as emotional abuse and eventually progressed to physical and I worry because I see the same pattern in what you have said.

What is happening is cruelty, it's manipulation, it's selfish, it's controlling behaviour - it is NOT love.

I know this may seem hurtful but I really would urge you leave this relationship. I stayed because I thought it could be worked out, because, as odd as it may sound, trying to fix it, trying to normalise it. I convinced myself it wasn't that bad, I made excuses for his behaviour. It was easier than dealing with the hurt, fear and loss of control.

I know it will hurt, I've been through it, but this will only continue to damage you if you stay.

Don't stand for a man who puts his own interests and well being above your own, or gets his kicks out of control. Don't accept someone who won't respect you, who gets aggresive because you disagree with them. Don't stand for anyone who wants to impose their will on you.

Please feel free to PM me if you need anything.

The truth you revealed in love will help her. For I had been one of those evil men and until she left I was in charge. After she left, I had no one to turn to but God. That's how I came to the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. After knowing Him, how would anyone want to knowingly hurt someone? Thank you for your insight. I pray to the Lord that He saves the abusive male so he may be a testimony as I am. In Jesus name I pray. Amen!

heron · Sep 16, 2006

I Cor., what a beautiful thing to write.

Endless, thanks for being vulnerable enough to show a similar relationship at a different stage.

Embracing, these points are so true. Some of the things men do are simply different. And I agree with the logic part. Women see a broader ranger of what needs to be done and what the impacts are, and men see a more direct, immediate need and solution. If things are going well (because the woman is nice) then they don't see the need to change.

The computer addiction issue is getting scary in this era, and I think there will be many, many couples with similar issues -- including both of them driven that way.

FallingWaters · Sep 16, 2006

Dear Observer,

I hope and pray you have the wisdom to listen to the advice that has been given here. And let me add my voice: Please, I beg you, don't marry this man. Call it off.

I'm sure he is basically a nice person, but you don't belong together. He is not yet mature enough to be your husband. You don't have the same basic values. Life will NOT get better after you're married. That is a lie.

God has a mate picked out for you, a mate who is the "man of your dreams". I guarantee he is worth waiting for. Stop wasting your time with someone who doesn't understand you, or respect you, or believe in you, and who belittles you.

Dr. James Dobson of "Focus On The Family" says, "Don't marry the one you think you can live with; marry the one you know you can't live without."

I cannot stand when people marry the wrong person. They just end up in divorce, and regardless what people say, divorce hurts. It tears you to shreds... like breaking up with a boyfriend, but 1000 times worse.

Please don't marry him. If you think you don't feel safe now, just wait. You ain't seen nothing yet! Never, never, ever marry a man you can't trust with your whole spirit, soul, and body.

Make a list of what you want in a man, and don't settle for less. Wait for the Man Of Your Dreams!

TexasGirl06 · Sep 16, 2006

Thinking about you, Observer....

and wondering how you are doing.

1Cor13v13 · Sep 17, 2006

heron said:
I Cor., what a beautiful thing to write.

Endless, thanks for being vulnerable enough to show a similar relationship at a different stage.

Embracing, these points are so true. Some of the things men do are simply different. And I agree with the logic part. Women see a broader ranger of what needs to be done and what the impacts are, and men see a more direct, immediate need and solution. If things are going well (because the woman is nice) then they don't see the need to change.

The computer addiction issue is getting scary in this era, and I think there will be many, many couples with similar issues -- including both of them driven that way.

Thank you for the kind words and for the insight of a woman. As you well know that if I did not share my life in God and what He has done for me, then I would not have His love in me. Oh God, never let me be so far from You that I can not share the love You have for us!

Lord I bless Heron in Your Holy name, the name of Jesus! I am excited to know that we have true brothers and sisters in the Lord to help encourage us. So, let us go to the house of the Lord and praise His name and lift the name of Jesus on high! Amen!

EmbracingHim · Sep 17, 2006

heron,

Thank you as well.

I also suggest Christian counseling if a person is still in love with another, but the relationship is having difficulties. Most churches facilitate this for couples.

So many times I have held fears about a marriage that later turned into divorce (friends), but I know how blind the heart can be when we love another. I am careful about the advice given now, since these matters are fragile as they involve the heart and love between two others and the entire scenerio rests with both fully while we see only parts shared at the moment.

Continuing in prayer, Observer.

Observer · Sep 19, 2006

Thank you all for your replies and advice.

I feel that he is the person I am meant to be with, and we're both completely committed to our relationship so for both of us, there is no option for separating. He has his strengths and good qualities... he can be very caring & affectionate, his aim is to follow God, he has a music ministry, he's against sin, he's good to people, he flew 24+ hours to come to my country from America when he'd never flown before and was afraid of it, he worked at horrible places to save up the money for it, he sold things he worked really hard for to come here, he's very faithful & loyal and extremely strong in that area, there are so many things that I love about him and I know that he loves me. I just don't know how to help him when it comes to what I first posted about. When he's in a good mood, I feel like I'm always struggling to keep him in that mood, so I try to be really positive and happy even if I might feel like saying nothing and not sharing anything with him because I'm tired or whatever reasons... because he can be really moody and snap and start being really inconsiderate and just thinking about himself. I don't know how to help him get past the little things that make him get upset/irritated/frustrated/anxious, and I try so hard that I just break down and cry... he seems to not realise what he does to me, the way he speaks to me, even after it all, and after I explain it all, he still doesn't understand and KNOW what he did to me. He always says he understands what I'm saying completely, he just disagrees. But if he truly understood me, he wouldn't disagree because he'd KNOW what he did to me and he wouldn't be able to see past it anymore or interpret it his way. I'm not blaming this on him but it's bringing me down as well... I've even become like an immature child and tried to slap him and I've kicked him... I can't physically hurt him, he's 100 lbs heavier than me, but it's still hurtful and wrong to do that to someone.. just the fact that you want to hurt them, hurts them. I just get so frustrated that I can't get through to him... I feel like I'm nothing when I can't even attract something as basic as consideration and affection from him... isn't a woman supposed to be able to bring that out of her partner easily? nothing I do gets that from him in that situation when I'm hurt and trying to convince him that he did something that hurt me. When he does something, I tell him it hurt me calmly, but he just wont... respond in any way other than defending hinmself and just going into this self preserving mode... all he wants to do is shoot down what I'm saying and tell me I'm being too sensitive... then I start to get even more hurt and I'm not so calm anymore, & he keeps attacking me, then I get extremely angry and either just let it go because it's too exhausting to try and reach him because I never can, or I've yelled at him. I've even been violent. So, even though I feel he is abusive, I can be abusive too... but I'm usually considerate and it doesn't happen very often, but it has. I just... I don't know what to do. I stand up for myself, but it hurts me deeply to be disrespected by the person that I need respect and love and consideration from the most. I can't fully rely or trust in him because of it. It's not improving no matter what I do. I've made some really bad choices a couple of times when we've argued, like when I started pushing & waving my arms and legs around to push him off the bed and he said I hit him in the face, and I've deliberately kicked him in the back of his calves. It was really bad of me and he's not violent at all. I try to be what he needs, and occasionally it's too much for me to cope with holding the entire relationship up and I do something stupid... but I try so hard to hold us together and I swallow my pride and go out of my way to please him so much more than he does... I get tired of being in second place all the time

1Cor13v13 · Sep 19, 2006

I get tired of being in second place all the time

Sweetheart, you are in first place with Jesus.

heron · Sep 20, 2006

Hi, Observer! Welcome back to your thread, which we've blabbed on and on over. (-:

It's great that you're facing this all directly, and allowing yourself to admit what's going on. So many people don't run into this until the first year of marriage, and by then they've faked so much niceness they don't recognize themselves. And they've spun ruts.

One of the conflicts comes from him having a man's perspective. I know some greatest spiritual men, but they're in their own world when it comes to giving others attention...sometimes simple decency. They serve other purposes well... they just blank out with people. They probably won't change much, because that's how they think, and approach life.

The arguing scares some guys, and instead of hearing what we're saying, their minds are on how quickly they can get away from emotional conflict. I learned to keep my words simple and straightforward. (Okay, I didn't learn how to write my posts shorter. ) Choose words well...sparingly.

Plan to give information three times --once well before, once just before, and once after they've missed it. (-; And write it somewhere. Sometimes men's minds are on other things, as it doesn't bother them to be weak relationally. I'm saying this matter-of-factly. Don't be angry if they miss information -- just expect to repeat it. (Sorry, guys. But don't you agree?)

When everything in you just wants to shake sense or response into him, go out for a walk and come back. If added emphasis is not working now, it probably never will. I'm not saying to cower and give in to this treatment, but take the stance that you are complete and content with our without his approval. I've found that letting go of emotion is more effective in presenting my arguments.

Remind yourself that you are an heir of the Kingdom... have authority over spirits and dominion over animals (no joke intended), and hold that inner stance. You are adult, with an adult life and important things to do. He is beside you.

(Reading this again, I see the "He" could mean two things. Take it either way.)

He is who he is. (Bf.) He is not capable of some of the things you wish he could be. So when he's immature, it doesn't need to be a reflection on you or your relationship. You are you, holding strong while he spins out in his weaknesses.

Don't allow yourself to be treated poorly, but separate yourself enough that you are independent of his approval. Keep a life of your own... have important things to do each week. This is not for spite, but for breathing room, and to see possibilities outside the enclosed space. Sometimes we get trapped in our small worlds, and forget how to move our limbs. He will probably respect you more for having things to do, even when his immediate wish is to have you at his side.

How to help him... consider that some of the worse things he does might be due to medical/physiologic/brain issues he's not aware of. Read up on possibilities. If there's anything that needs attention now, you'll really be helping him by finding solutions before he sabotages too much of his life.

E.H., good point! Remember how many times we've jumped up and down for a friend when they got engaged, or got a phone call, or got some form of attention! And then there are couples that married against all sorts of resistance, and made things work.

ICor, I hope that the changes in approach continue to go well for you.

hisbloodformysins · Sep 28, 2006

Observer said:
I need to talk to someone who won't attack me... well, it's not like it's a conversation to type a post on here, but sometimes it gives people comfort to type into a box knowing that someone will read it and maybe understand them, so that's why I'm here. I just need someone to understand me... my fiance always says that he understands me when we're arguing, but if he really understood me, he wouldn't be against me and everything I say... I don't think he really understands what "understanding" truly is. I wish I didn't feel the need to be understood by him and be treated well by him... because it hurts so bad to crave acceptance, understanding and compassion from someone who can be so selfish and so hurtful and who you know almost every time, they're going to throw you back and reject everything you say and just keep attacking you no matter what you say or how you feel or how much you cry in front of them. Not long ago he said that the reason I start crying is just a manipulative tool I use to try and get sympathy from him... he's just so... I can't explain him... he just hurts me so much... more than anyone has hurt me before. There are SO many unresolved things that he's done to me that I still feel pain over, and they can never be resolved because he won't acknowledge that it happened at all and he always feels he's innocent in almost every situation. I can be too loud in an argument because I get so stressed and upset, and I can say mean things, I'm not some innocent angel but I fele like I work harder in our relationship than he does. I feel like I put so much more effort into us being connected and happy together, and I feel like he just floats along waiting to feel connected, and is always ready to attack me or be rude to me, or mean or selfish or anything he feels like expressing at the time. He makes me feel like it's impossible for us to be connected and loving on a regular basis because he contributes so much to the separation in our relationship. It's gotten to the point where I feel afraid of him... I feel so scared that I'm not going to get his approval and acceptance that I become this... I don't know... I constantly watch him out of the corner of my eye waiting for him to pull a face or sigh about something I've done or said and I'm just petrified that he's going to go into one of his moods and treat me like garbage because it happens so regularly now. He's more likely to be in a bad mood than a good one, and I compensate so much by forcing myself to act overly happy to try and cheer him up ALL. THE. TIME. I'm always "Happy Jenn" desperately trying to make him smile or laugh to avoid being treated like garbage. I honestly feel like maybe what he does to me is abusive because it's giving me such low self esteem because he treats me like I'm so below him. He would never treat himself or anyone else the way he treats me. He would never do this to his friends or his mother or even a stranger at a cash register... he's always SO polite to everyone else, I've never met anyone as polite and friendly as him when we go shopping together... but then I'm the lucky one that gets glared at and receives all the irritation like some punching bag when we get somewhere less public. I tell him he hurts me and basically he says something like this: "No, of course I don't think you're just imagining it all, I understand that it must feel very real to you" and other condescending pathetic things like that. He just denies that any of it happens and puts it all down to me misreading everything. I'm not psychotic... I don't see how anyone could be meaning anything else for them to misread when they treat you like dirt and say horrible things to you. Our problems can NEVER be resolved because he will NEVER acknowledge anything happening. He always says how I bring thing sup from the past and I don't have the right to do that and said I forgave him, but how can I NOT bring them up when he does them OVER AND OVER and doesn't appologise or acknowledge what happened?! I personally can't truly forgive someone when they're STILL hurting me with the same thing. I try to forgive and I AM a very forgiving person but it's just too much when I start to feel like he's destroying me. I can't just forgive that and move on... there's nothing to move onto... he's not interested in fixing anything... he just keeps arguing his point that he didn't do anything wrong. I feel like I'm a good person... I try really hard in this relationship to keep us together, but I can't be the only one that holds it all together, it's so stressful and I just keep breaking down and crying, it's too much for me to handle and I feel so so so so so so so so so alone and isolated and I can't believe someone who calls himself my emotional and spiritual husband would treat me like this. The most recent thing that he's hurt me with is something to do with computers. My mum came home with 3 computers from her work because they weren't using them anymore. Even though I felt a bit jealous because I've never had a "good" computer, I wanted him to have a really good computer because he needs it for music he makes and he'd appreciate it. So, he took all the good stuff and made himself a computer that's at the same level as something you'd buy from a store, and mine is still slow and tiny, but I reallly appreciated it because he built it for me and spent time on it anyway. So, it's a few days later and he's been on his comp for like 6 hours. I ask him if I can have half an hour on his for e-mails and whatever because I didn't really have a desk or anything to put mine on, and his is a lot faster, mine is frustratingly slow. He gets mad at me, says he doesn't have to let me use his property and tells me to go and set up my own. I just got so upset because I'd been generous by saying he should have the good computer, and he was so selfish and didn't want to share even for 30 minutes. I figured since he got the good one that I could use it a little bit sometimes. When I ask for something little, he acts like he's been on the comp for 1 minute and I've come in demanding 10 hours on it... why does he feel like he has the right to treat me like that?!?!?! Why does he even WANT to?! If you love someone, why would you treat them like that? I always get punishment for something extremely wrong even though I've only done something little. I can't believe I'm talking like asking for 30 minutes is a "little bit wrong" anyway! IT'S NOT WRONG AT ALL! I think he's starting to make me feel like wanting anything for myself is always wrong, cause that's how he treats it. Sorry for rambling about the details, but just explaining that ONE situation explains pretty much ALL of the times he's hurt me. He doesn't give me any respect and he's very selfish. Just recently he said he'd come for a walk with me, because I wanted to do it together because he'd been on the computer for hours and hadn't been spending any time with me. He said he would, so I waited... 2 hours passed... I ask if he's still coming... 3 hours... 4 hours... until it's NIGHT time and cold outside and I really wanted to get some sunlight for once. I go in and say, hey, it's dark, I really wanted to go for a walk... then he acts all irritated and starts getting dressed to come for a walk with me... I start trying to tell him that I think it's kind of selfish and disrespectful to make me wait for such a long time... then he acts angry and tells me it's a privilege for him to come for a walk with me at all. And he justifies all this behaviour and all the hurtful things he says to me somehow, by arguing in circles and twisting everuything to make it seem like everything he did was justified and I deserved it for doing something wrong. I feel like I can't even sit next to him without irritating him in some way. Sometimes he can't keep his hands off me and treats me so nice and tells me I'm beautiful and all of that typical romance type stuff, and the rest of the time he's just horrible to me. I'm just so hurt, and then so frustrated when he acts like none of it happened. Sorry, I've gone on and on but I have no one to talk to because I have absolutely no friends... it's pathetic really. I feel so dependent on him and I just wish I didn't. I WILL be totally and utterly dependent on him soon, because we'll be going back to his town in America soon. I'm Australian and I've never gone overseas and I have lots of emotional and health problems so it's going to be a huge stress for me and I honestly don't know if I can trust him to be able to support me emotionally and be a partner to me... I don't feel safe with him. He doesn't physically abuse me or cheat or any of those typically abusive things, there's some things that he's just not and would never do... but there are also abusive things that he DOES do, because he doesn't even view them as abusive... so I just do not feel safe with him and I feel so hurt. He's a Christian, but I'm not... but I try to follow God and I try to help him to treat me better by being a good example and treating him well, but I don't feel like I have the energy anymore to be treating someone so well when they regularly snap at me and treat me like I'm worthless and below them. He'd deny he does any of this though of course.

I'll understand if no one has anything to say about my post, I don't know how I'd reply to it, it makes me seem petty and immature to go on about it... but it did make me feel better to be able to say all of it without him talking over me and saying none of it's true... so... thanks to anyone who actually sat there and read it, heh

Hi Jenn? My name is Jen also. Well, Jenifer to be exact. I'm reading your complaints and seeing my feelings toward my own husband duplicated. I've been married 7 years now and have really sought the lord on this, and I'd like to tell you the conclusion I've come to, in other words, I'm going to give you some advice.

When there is a dynamic like this, there are 2 people at fault, not 1. Let me explain. You take on the responsibility for this relationship, so why should he? I want you to seriously consider my words now. The only reason you do is because you want your relationship to work. But the glorious thing about a healthy relationship is that both independantly contribute to it, and you two have an unhealthy dynamic because you are overexerting yourself, therefore he is underexerting yourself, and you are overexerting yourself because he is underexterting himself if you know what I mean. The only way you are going to resolve this problem is first sit down with yourself and ask yourself how you can meet your needs without any dependance on him. I know what you mean, you want to feel accepted, well obviously that isn't happening, and no amount and verbally telling him about it will help your case, I'm sure you're already coming to that conclusion. Once you learn how to make yourself happy independant of him, you can then start excerting your boundaries, for example, if you tell him how you feel, and he calls you stupid or says something not nice to you, you can leave the room (instead of arguing with him) and call someone who cares, or what I do is pray, because I know God understands, and that he is the only one that can do anything about it. I've learned that I am unable to make my husband see the errors of his ways, but God can and does. However, whether you pray or not, that is my preferred coping skill, it will make a difference if you stop dancing the same rythm you always have. It's easy for him to avoid his issues by blaming you, but what happens when he no longer has anything to blame you for? If he starts picking on you and you feel torn down by it you can first tell him how you feel, then tell him if he continues you'll either leave the room, house, or whatever, then follow through. But, this will only work for you if you are not depending on him to follow after you, and if you have settled the fact in your heart that he cannot make you happy. If this is a serious matter for you you can suggest couples counseling, and if he's unwilling you tell him that these problems are tearing you down and if he is not willing to do something about it, then you are going to have to seperate, and then after you give him the ultimatim, do it. Follow through, as hard as it seems. It may seem hurtful to leave him, but it will be more hurtful for you staying in a relationship where you feel like you are the one doing all the work and are not satisfactorily cared for. You see, once you stop arguing with him or pleading with him, you are taking power away from him. Because right now he knows that he's got you where he wants you, that you are the weaker person because you "need" him as evidenced by the pleading "please listen to me, understand me accept me sniffle sniffle", then he can try to make you the one that deals with the errors of your ways because you care so much as evidenced by telling you what you are doing wrong. If you stop pleading with him, and simple assert boundaries "this is what I will & won't tolerate.... if you do or don't do this, this is what I will or won't do.... and that's final, I'm not going to argue or reason with you, I'm done putting that emotional work into it for your gain" Then he won't be able to point fingers at you anymore, he'll be forced to deal with his own issues. When he points fingers of blame at you, & nit picks, that is not your problem, that is his problem, but you are making it your problem by trying harder, and that enables him to try less. Does that make any sense? Finally, I'm going to suggest two books:
A dance with anger....(don't remember the author, I don't think it's a christian book, and it's by a therapist, dealing with women & their anger and teaching about setting boundaries to deal with your problems) & Boundaries by Henry Cloud (I'm pretty sure that's the author) and may you be blessed by reading them. Hope you find this helpful.

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