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How would you prove the Universe is old?

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AV1611VET

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Cabal said:
Aw, diddums.

Try being denounced as non-Christian on a near daily basis, by other Christians.
Click to expand...
Hopefully not I.

If I did, my sincerest apologies.
 
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Cabal

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AV1611VET said:
Hopefully not I.

If I did, my sincerest apologies.
Click to expand...

Quite right, you haven't, and that's a good thing in my book

But maybe this variance idea needs spreading among YECs more....

ETA: Thank you, by the way.
 
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AV1611VET

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Cabal said:
Quite right, you haven't, and that's a good thing in my book

But maybe this variance idea needs spreading among YECs more....

ETA: Thank you, by the way.
Click to expand...
You're very welcome.

I think we need to stop going after one another and concentrate on the Great Commission here; but certainly not to the exclusion of Truth.

I like to see questions answered here, but when the questioning is more science than Scripture, I think we should just bow out.

(And I need to heed that advice as well.)
 
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Loudmouth

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Ursie said:
Just don't agree with you on how it came about.
Click to expand...

What evidence, if found, would make you agree with us? What genetic markers shared by different species would make you agree that they share a common ancestor? What characteristics in fossils would make you agree that they demonstrate a transition between two forms? What evidence would make you sit back and say "hmmm, I may be wrong"? Any?

If not, then I can only assume that you are quite close minded about the whole thing.
 
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thaumaturgy

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AV1611VET said:
Did you feel you could say whatever you liked to Glenn Morton?
Click to expand...

Well, the reason I backpeddled after I got nasty was not because I respect him or his "scientific responses" (I clearly don't in the climate debate), but rather because I felt really bad getting snarky with a guy suffering from cancer.

If you think for one second scientists treat each other with kid gloves you have clearly never been around a group of professional scientists. (Usually an undergrad doesn't see the really good stuff, you have to get up into grad school before you see the real nasty backbiting and infighting).

So if you want to draw some comparisons, maybe it would (again) help if you actually knew what the other side sees.
 
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thaumaturgy

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Ursie said:
I will certainly concede that you are very intrigued by and enjoy the creation and that those who look closely can appreciate more. Just don't agree with you on how it came about. But I'm glad you enjoy it immensely.
Click to expand...

Is that why you said this?

(emphasis added)

You're glad for us that we haven't been able to learn to simply revel in the creation without having to explain every last bit of it scientifically?

Seems like a strange way to present your point.
 
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AV1611VET

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Thanks.
Matthew 15:27 said:
And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.
Click to expand...
That's nice of you guys to let us even sit in the same room that science's table is in.
 
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thaumaturgy

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AV1611VET said:
Thanks.That's nice of you guys to let us even sit in the same room that science's table is in.
Click to expand...

So you spit on science, tell us to "take a hike" when we say something that doesn't fit in with your interp, yet you aren't a hypocrite when you selectively partake of all that it is that science gives you.

Good for you!

But you missed the point (as usual): science works whether you believe in it or not! Whether you care about science or just pay it lipservice while you denigrate it (as you like to do).

You can tell science to take a hike while you are sitting using a computer and the computer still works for you!

That's the beauty of it. You don't have to look with "eyes of the spirit" to see science in action. You just have to exist.

But look how fast you take offense and you play the martyr! Boo hoo! AV feels slighted! Suck it up, little man! You equated my career to drug and alcohol abuse (LINKY).

Sorry, AV, your martyrdom doesn't cut it. Not by a long shot. And I suspect it wouldn't even cut it with your lord 'n savior (Luke 6:31).
 
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AV1611VET

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thaumaturgy said:
You can tell science to take a hike while you are sitting using a computer and the computer still works for you!
Click to expand...
That works two ways, Thaumaturgy.

You can tell God to "take a hike" while breathing His air.
 
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thaumaturgy

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AV1611VET said:
That works two ways, Thaumaturgy.

You can tell God to "take a hike" while breathing His air.
Click to expand...

We know where the computer came from (total human creation, fully documented at all stages). Prove God gave us the air.

First "prove God", then prove God gave us the air.

Actually a better comparison would be if I said I loved God and he was a great part of my life but I want him to take a hike when I feel cramped by his rules. But that's a subtlety I don't expect you to catch...I mean you are the one who has told us scientists are gifts from God and also equated being a scientist to drug and alcohol abuse, so there's that...)
 
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BananaSlug

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I've noticed that many creationists have stopped attacking evolution and seem to be attacking all of science.
"Scientists are gifts from God... Thalidomide! Phlogiston! Pluto!!!!!!!"

It makes sense to me that some of evolution's biggest detractors are people who do not even understand the basic concepts and terminology of science. They are intellectually bankrupt and many are proud of it!

Proverbs 4:6-7, "Do not forsake wisdom, and she will protect you; love her, and she will watch over you. Wisdom is supreme; therefore get wisdom. Though it cost all you have, get understanding."

Proverbs 14:6
The mocker seeks wisdom and finds none, but knowledge comes easily to the discerning.

Proverbs 14:33
Wisdom rests in the heart of him who has understanding, but what is in the heart of fools is made known.

Proverbs 16:16
How much better to get wisdom than gold, to choose understanding rather than silver!

Ecclesiastes 7:12
For wisdom is a defense as money is a defense, But the excellence of knowledge is that wisdom gives life to those who have it.

It is nice to see Christians make a mockery of their own beliefs by trying to make the Genesis account of creation as a Dick-and-Jane storybook rather than an inspirational story of Hebrew poetry.

We have the evidence, get over it... unless someone would like to explain to me why God gave chickens the genes to grow teeth if birds were created without them.
 
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Hespera

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One of the particularly odd things to me is the mention in genesis of the domestic animals being created as they are now. (I guess I mean, were then, in biblical times) had by that time people already forgotten that they had domesticated wild animals, and didnt notice that their wild ancestors were still there to be seen?
 
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BananaSlug

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Also, how many languages did God give to the people? Was it just a few or many? The Bible is very vague in many areas. Maybe the Bable story was just the Hebrew people's way of explain the different languages they came in contact with (because they knew nothing of linguistics).
Nah, it has to be real. All of our modern scientism means nothing, unless it coincides my opinion.
 
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