How were you received

katherine2001 · Jun 3, 2004

I think a Chrismation service is a lot like the baptism service, but is also different in some ways. I also had to do a lifetime confession. As I was 43 years old and had not lived an exemplary life, it was quite long, but it was extremely liberating. I was terrified going into it though. I was chrismated before the liturgy on Holy Saturday morning, so that I could receive communion at the liturgy. It was done right before the Tomb.

Photini · Jun 3, 2004

Are the prayers of exorcism read in a Chrismation service?

Matrona · Jun 3, 2004

Photini said:
Here's my daughter next to her horse trough!

She's beautiful! Just like her mother!

Eusebios · Jun 3, 2004

My wife Sally (Joanna) and I were received via charismation as we had both received trinitarian baptisms in our "former delusion" I do believe that the exorcism prayers were read, though that's been a little over three years ago, and I'm lucky to remember yesterday
Under His Mercy,
Eusebios.

DjHurricane · Jun 3, 2004

Wow, the OCA is even looser than i thuoght.
Celebration of Christmas on the 25th, Priests without beards, and now allowing protestants into the church without a proper baptism??

With The Catholic Church, that is an entirely different story. Accepting Catholics into the ORthodox Church (WHich I personally think is pointless given it is the same church) is one thing. But Protestants??!?!?!? WHo Gave any of them the right to legitimately baptise in the name of the trinity??? Accepting Protestants into Orthodoxy is insulting not only to them, but to all of their (now fellow) orthodox as well because it recognizes the protestant form of the sacrament as legit.

No Protestant Baptism can be recognized by the Orthodox/Catholic church, only our priests have the power to give someone a valid baptism, and the sacredness of baptism must be upheld by re-baptising all non-orthodox/catholics into the church.

Even Catholics who weren't baptised by immersion should be re-baptised, I think, and that isnt because Catholic baptisms are necessarily invalid but because I think that only baptism by immersion is proper. And with Protestants, their sacrament of baptism is not only invalid in the eyes of non-oca Orthodox, but improper as well (ie by sprinkling and the like, not immersion with the exception of baptists and pentecostals). Again though, even if Protestants baptised by immersion it makes no difference because this is not done by someone ordained from the time of christ as in holy orthodoxy/catholicism and is thus nothing more than a bath for whoever is being "baptised".

For All newcomers to Orthodoxy I would encourage you for your own sake to talk to your priest and have him baptise you to be SURE YOU HAVE A VALID BAPTISM!! Baptism is very important and you cant afford to have not been baptised (or for a protestant "baptism" to serve as you initiation into the Church). BTW, why was the mormon guy re-baptized and the other protestants not?? Sure, their teachings are even more heretical than those of mainstream protestants, but if you arent orthodox/catholic no matter how far or close then no sacrament that you receive should be viewed as valid or as a sacrament in any form. lets not rely on the kind words of the exceedingly liberal OCA clergy to risk your soul being gentle and ecumenical. above all PLAY IT SAFE, be sure you have a valid baptism no matter what anyone says in a church where you know the sacraments are valid and god will recognize it (ie an Orthodox Church).

DJ Hurricane

nicodemus · Jun 3, 2004

I'm a former protestant that was "baptized" in a protestant church and I was received into the Orthodox Church by Baptism and I go to an OCA parish. I can't think of a protestant that's been received since I've been there that wasn't received through Baptism.

Remember, it isn't always fair to paint with such a broad brush.

Epiphany · Jun 3, 2004

DjHurricane said:
Wow, the OCA is even looser than i thuoght.
Celebration of Christmas on the 25th, Priests without beards, and now allowing protestants into the church without a proper baptism??

With The Catholic Church, that is an entirely different story. Accepting Catholics into the ORthodox Church (WHich I personally think is pointless given it is the same church) is one thing. But Protestants??!?!?!? WHo Gave any of them the right to legitimately baptise in the name of the trinity??? Accepting Protestants into Orthodoxy is insulting not only to them, but to all of their (now fellow) orthodox as well because it recognizes the protestant form of the sacrament as legit.

No Protestant Baptism can be recognized by the Orthodox/Catholic church, only our priests have the power to give someone a valid baptism, and the sacredness of baptism must be upheld by re-baptising all non-orthodox/catholics into the church.

Even Catholics who weren't baptised by immersion should be re-baptised, I think, and that isnt because Catholic baptisms are necessarily invalid but because I think that only baptism by immersion is proper. And with Protestants, their sacrament of baptism is not only invalid in the eyes of non-oca Orthodox, but improper as well (ie by sprinkling and the like, not immersion with the exception of baptists and pentecostals). Again though, even if Protestants baptised by immersion it makes no difference because this is not done by someone ordained from the time of christ as in holy orthodoxy/catholicism and is thus nothing more than a bath for whoever is being "baptised".

For All newcomers to Orthodoxy I would encourage you for your own sake to talk to your priest and have him baptise you to be SURE YOU HAVE A VALID BAPTISM!! Baptism is very important and you cant afford to have not been baptised (or for a protestant "baptism" to serve as you initiation into the Church). BTW, why was the mormon guy re-baptized and the other protestants not?? Sure, their teachings are even more heretical than those of mainstream protestants, but if you arent orthodox/catholic no matter how far or close then no sacrament that you receive should be viewed as valid or as a sacrament in any form. lets not rely on the kind words of the exceedingly liberal OCA clergy to risk your soul being gentle and ecumenical. above all PLAY IT SAFE, be sure you have a valid baptism no matter what anyone says in a church where you know the sacraments are valid and god will recognize it (ie an Orthodox Church).

DJ Hurricane

To Life Immortal

EEEEEK! I'm sure I wasn't baptised by triple immersion; there wasn't a tub/trough/pool at the mission where I attended. Should I get baptized again?
How is that supposed to work?

Matrona · Jun 4, 2004

Epiphany said:
To Life Immortal

EEEEEK! I'm sure I wasn't baptised by triple immersion; there wasn't a tub/trough/pool at the mission where I attended. Should I get baptized again?
How is that supposed to work?

Dear Epiphany,

If you were baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, then you have a valid baptism. The root of the word "baptize" means "to immerse", but this is not always possible in mission parishes. While it is definitely preferred to baptize by immersion, a baptism that must be done by pouring/sprinkling for the remission of sins is just as valid and cleansing. The immersion death/resurrection symbolism is lost, that's all.

The same people who argue that yours isn't valid because it's not triple immersion, might also argue that mine isn't valid because I was in jeans and a grey t-shirt instead of a white robe or whatever. * The folly of legalism. Believe me, you get just as wet no matter what you're wearing, and you are just as baptized no matter how much water they used.

(* "I see Thy Bridal Chamber adorned, O my Saviour, and I have no wedding garment that I may enter therein: O Giver of Light, make radiant the vesture of my soul and save me...")

DjHurricane · Jun 4, 2004

Matrona said:
If you were baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, then you have a valid baptism.

hmm that sounds very protestant, priesthood of all believers, something like that. Onyl Priests ordained from the time of Christ can give the sacraments, among them baptism. Otherwise it is simply gestures and words. Making the argument that anyone can give a baptism cheapens the sacrament to the point that there is no reason to be baptized (hey, i can spray myself with tap water and baptize myself right) which means one thinks that baptism is not necessary for salvation and hence Protestants arte right, you are saved by faith alone.

Matrona said:
While it is definitely preferred to baptize by immersion,

AGREED

Matrona said:
a baptism that must be done by pouring/sprinkling for the remission of sins is just as valid and cleansing

Possibley, If done by an Orthodox/Catholic Priest, not any common person (as in protestantism).

Matrona said:
The same people who argue that yours isn't valid because it's not triple immersion, might also argue that mine isn't valid because I was in jeans and a grey t-shirt instead of a white robe or whatever.

Correct, me for one.

DJ Hurricane

Michael G · Jun 4, 2004

DJ, you sound very much to me like Fr. Vasily Vasilievich, but without the bad Russian accent. Be careful of such wide, swooping statements. Baptism by immersion is the preferred norm, but not always possible. By the way, St. Justin Martyr was never baptised. He wasn't. He was a pagan philosopher who considered Christianity to be the true philosophy. And when push came to shove, he gave his life for it. I think he is in Heaven without a triple immersion baptism because his baptism was with his own blood!

Michael G · Jun 4, 2004

DjHurricane said:
AGREED

Possibley, If done by an Orthodox/Catholic Priest, not any common person (as in protestantism).

Correct, me for one.

DJ Hurricane

It disturbs me that you group Orthodox and Catholics together.

Suzannah · Jun 4, 2004

[mod hat on]

Only Coptic and canonnical Orthodox doctrines are to be "promoted" in this forum. That is the essential purpose of the Ancient Way. Other doctrines, outside of Coptic and other Eastern Orthodox theology, are not to be promoted here.

Thanks.
{/mod hat off]

[sailor hat on]
*Suzannah really appreciates hearing the personal experiences of those here.*

[/sailor hat off]

NewToLife · Jun 4, 2004

Hmmm, personally it is enough for me that the church considers my Anglican baptism valid, whether it was performed by a protestant or not. Personally I would not have become Orthodox unless I was willing to accept the church's considered opinion on such matters.

Oblio · Jun 4, 2004

DJ,

You apperantly do not understand the concept of Economy WRT the sacrament of Baptism. You also misunderstand where the 'source' of the 'power' of Baptim lies.

[Now a word from one of our our moderators]

I would be very careful in maligning Orthodox jurisdictions outside your own and by implication the Bishops that preside over the priests that officiate of the entrance of members of the Church, some of them being members here.

[/word]

Nickolai · Jun 4, 2004

In addition DJ,

From your hostility toward the OCA (THe original Russian Church in the US) I would suspect that you were perhaps ROCOR or ROCA. But your belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the same as the Orthodox Church.

DJHurricane said:
With The Catholic Church, that is an entirely different story. Accepting Catholics into the Orthodox Church (Which I personally think is pointless given it is the same church)

You would probably not be permitted in some Synodal Churches let alone be a member in good standing. You have the nerve to imply that a ROman Catholic is already a member of the Orthodox Faith. This is laughable.

countrymousenc · Jun 4, 2004

I will be received by chrismation, perhaps sometime in July. I was baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, by immersion, as a child (age 10). Father said that if he rebaptized someone already baptized according to the Trinitarian formula he would probably be defrocked! I respect and trust the ability and faithfulness of the Church to do the right thing.

Matrona · Jun 4, 2004

countrymousenc said:
I will be received by chrismation, perhaps sometime in July. I was baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, by immersion, as a child (age 10). Father said that if he rebaptized someone already baptized according to the Trinitarian formula he would probably be defrocked! I respect and trust the ability and faithfulness of the Church to do the right thing.

Congratulations, Dianne!

Rilian · Jun 4, 2004

Hmmmm, I didn't mean to touch off a firestorm here. I was just curious because Ive been thinking about how we should potentially do this. I was baptized as an adult with my wife and kids by sprinkling and in the name of the Trinity in an Episcopal Church. I talked to my priest about this and he said he thought chrismation would be most appropriate in this instance (although he said all converts received from the Episcopal Church may potentially have to be baptized sometime in the near future).

I was reading the life of St. Elizabeth the New Martyr and I believe she was received by chrismation when she converted from Lutheranism.

Nickolai · Jun 4, 2004

Also DJ,

Just so you get a grasp of the Dogmatic reasons that Trinitarian baptisms can be accepted and completed by Chrismation. Realize that accepting the trinitarian baptism does not mean that any grace was given to the recipiant as in a true Orthodox baptism. All the grace that was missing from the heretical baptism is given to the person at Chrismation.

Nickolai · Jun 4, 2004

Rilian,

You don't neccesarily need to be rebaptized. But go with your Spiritual Father on this one. Your not gonna be condemned to Hell because you played it safe.

As long as you baptism was done before the election of Gene Robinson, and it was done in the Name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit it is acceptable for completion

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