• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

How to become perfect.

Endium

Active Member
Dec 29, 2006
171
3
✟22,903.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Private
This is a subject that has really caught my attention lately. I still haven't studied it completely, but I do want to share my thoughts.

I firmly believe that it is fully God's intention for us to obey Him completely, which is to be without sin. Everything I have read in the Bible has pointed to this. God says that if we love him, keep his commandments.

Now i know that we cannot keep the commandments ourselves, for our own righteousness is as filthy rags. We are sinful, and most of us are quite happy in our sin. However Jesus came to earth with that same sinful nature and completely overcame. He was without sin, and His life frees us from living in sin as well. Christ came to condemn sin in the flesh and to prove that it is possible to live without sin here on earth.

We become perfect by (not only but definitely) two things: 1. Recognizing that there is nothing we can do at all for ourselves, and 2. believing in the life that Jesus lived and having faith that He can give the same victory that He had to us.

I am not saying that we can be saved by our works. I have the hardest time understanding why people interpret the sinless life view as salvation by works. They are not the same at all. Not even close. We are not perfecting ourselves. We do not have to power to do so. However just because we cannot do it ourselves doesn't mean it cannot be done. Does anyone actually believe that God cannot do it for us? Even moreso, can anyone tell me a reason why if God can do it, why on Earth wouldn't He (if we let Him?)

Many people cannot see the big, yet mind-numbingly simple concept here. Jesus saves. Which is, Jesus saves us from sin, which means He frees us from committing sins any longer. Jesus came to save! We are free from its bondage because we don't have to let it control us in any aspect at all! As Paul says, we can be more than conquerors. If you do sin that doesn't mean that you aren't saved, because God's grace will cover us, however if we truly love God we will move toward a sinless life because God will do everything He can to get us there, and we will be working right along with Him!

Many people say well if that is true, why is no one living without sin now? To this I have no concrete answer, but there is no reason why this should be a problem. First of all, this is not an over night process. It's a life-long process and its often extended by our own stubbornness. Second of all, why would we look at others to prove whether what God says is true? That is why we have faith. Faith is the evidence of things not seen. Finally, did Jesus himself ever say that He was sinless? He said no one was good but the Father. Of course we know that He was sinless, but the fact is, we should not desire to be sinless just to say that we are. We should look to glorify God, and that is why I can say every good thing I do comes from God, and every bad thing I do I can overcome because Jesus wants me to do so! The only example we need is Jesus, and if no one else around us seems to be living up-to-par, it should not change our faith.

Those who are alive during the end of the world will, in fact, be sinless. For bible proof just look at the verse we Adventists use extensively to prove we are God's remnant church (Rev. 14: 12)
And for anyone who claims to believe in Ellen White, there is no room for any other view. Ellen White plainly states that those in the end times will not be sinning. Even more plainly is Ellen Whites views on the 1888 message (If you are unfamiliar with this then please study it.) The 1888 message (very) simply states that through faith in God we can obey the law (among other things.) Furthermore, Ellen White called this message the beginning of the loud cry and the latter rain. Unfortunately as an institution we (as SDA's) rejected this message. However that doesn't change the fact that this message was one of the last steps before the end!

We must believe that God can change us here and now. It is in this belief that God can fully make us into the people He wants us to be, which is a people who reflect the character of Jesus Christ.
 
Upvote 0

reddogs

Contributor
Site Supporter
Dec 29, 2006
9,235
512
✟557,931.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
What good does it do you to become "perfect" by faith or works as you reach for its attainment, if you dont see or help your neighbor suffering from sin and its consequences.........

In my experiance, most "perfect" christians were too busy to be interrupted by reality to actually show love or the Gospel of Christ to those desperately needing it....
 
Upvote 0

Endium

Active Member
Dec 29, 2006
171
3
✟22,903.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Private
I see exactly what you are saying. We have to be careful not to get confused and think that that it is all about ourselves.

One plain truth is that Jesus said to love God with all your heart, and to love your neighbor as yourself. If you are keeping His commandments, then you will do both.

One time I knew someone that was talking about living a sinless life. He asked, "What is the best way to live without sin?" Then he went on to say, "The best example we have is Jesus, so look at what he did with his time. He went around helping the poor, sick, and all of those in need. His life was a life of service."

That sounds good to me. I would think that it would be a lot harder to sin when you are constantly thinking about others and not yourself.

I'm not sure who those "perfect Christians" you mention are, but I can say that anyone who lives for no one but themselves is far from perfect.
 
Upvote 0

reddogs

Contributor
Site Supporter
Dec 29, 2006
9,235
512
✟557,931.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
We must love God with all your heart, and love your neighbor as yourself. In keeping these commandments, we begin to see what Gods truth is all about. Trying to become perfect is like making sure the chairs on the Titanic are in perfect order as it begins to list, worry about saving those on the boat not if your chair is elevated at the "perfect" angle..........
 
Upvote 0

Endium

Active Member
Dec 29, 2006
171
3
✟22,903.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Private
I Think you are misunderstanding my point.


If you love God with all your heart and love your neighbor as yourself to the utmost extent then you will be perfect! You will be obeying God's law to the utmost extent, right? Is there any law that talks about saving only yourself and neglecting everyone else? Not at all. Isn't God's law a law of love?

It's not about us "trying" to become perfect, that is the wrong attitude I think. It's more bout us believing that Jesus can and will make us perfect. He begins the work in us once we accept Him as our savior, and He is faithful and just to finish it(which is perfection) if we just let Him. Trying to become perfect is righteousness by our own works. Believing that we cannot do it ourselves, but that Jesus will do it for us- that is righteousness by faith.
 
Upvote 0

Jon0388g

Veteran
Aug 11, 2006
1,259
29
London
✟24,167.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Single

Excellent post.

Its an interesting point that, we as Adventists believe the Ten Commandments are a transcript of the character of Christ. And the character of Christ is what will be perfectly reproduced in the faithful remnant.

"For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself." Philippians 3:20-21



Note, the conditions of the Old Covenant:

"You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you...so that you may live and go in and take possession of the land which the Lord, the God of your fathers, is giving you." Deuteronomy 4:2,1

And the New Covanent:

"I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book; if anyone adds to them, God will add to the plagues which are written in this book, and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book...Blessed are those who do His commandments, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city." Revelation 22:18-19, 14


Thanks be to God that because of the unchanging requirement of His Law, His grace gave us a New and Better Covenant through Jesus Christ, who through "Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to make you stand in the presence of His glory blameless with great joy" Jude 24.

Jon
 
Upvote 0

Adventtruth

God is the Gospel!
Sep 7, 2006
1,527
40
Raliegh Durham North Carolina
✟25,683.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
Trying to become perfect is righteousness by our own works. Believing that we cannot do it ourselves, but that Jesus will do it for us- that is righteousness by faith.

But don't you believe that God now see's you through Jesus if you trust him presently by faith? If God see's you through Jesus who is the door, then you are already perfect because God see's you "IN CHRIST" who is perfect. This perfection is not by you working under the power of the Holy Spirit, but through a Perfect substitute who has already walked where the first Adam walked and failed. The Holy Spirit is your fruit unto righteous living, but this never saves you...it is only the fruit of salvation.


Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Rom 6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
Rom 6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
Rom 6:21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
You are considered righteous because you are free from sin, being in Christ, who is our perfection.

This does not mean that you have arrived or you are "MADE' perfect in and of yourselves. Nor does it mean you will not make a mistake. It means that all of Christ's righteousness is credited to you, so the Father see's you as being perfect in Christ, covered in the robe of Chirst's righteousness...your own necked righteousness is as filthy rags in the sight of God.

So being "in Christ" because you trust Him by faith also means you are not a servant of sin anymore but are a servant and freind of God who is 100% righteous, and now and only now you have your fruit (Holy Spirit) unto holiness or a sanctified christian walk. (Rom 6:22) That is the gospel!

-AT
 
Upvote 0

reddogs

Contributor
Site Supporter
Dec 29, 2006
9,235
512
✟557,931.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Let me ask you all a question which I posed in another thread....

Lets say I am the most evil crack dealer in miami, killing and maiming without remorse, never observing the Bible truths, or caring for others. Then one day they catch me and send me to the electric chair, and just before they pull the switch, I find, repent and accept the Gospel of Christ with all my heart and mind and ask Christ to be saved. If he accepts me and cleanses me of all my sin have I become perfect?..............

That is the correct answer to the question of perfection.....
 
Upvote 0

Adventtruth

God is the Gospel!
Sep 7, 2006
1,527
40
Raliegh Durham North Carolina
✟25,683.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat


Only through Christ righteousness has he become perfect. And that perfection is a borrowed perfection.

-AT
 
Upvote 0