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More time-wasting wiggling and dancing around. . .You raised a question about shrimp. I don't see where you indicated a scenario calling for deviation from the rule of conscience.
Why you think I should have to prove a logical necessity is beyond me. But I'll humor you for a moment - as long as you're not expecting me to prove something 100%. Again, I can't even prove that you exist. Here again is the rule of conscience:Tell ya what —I'll even give you a leg up —can you show how, as you claimed, conscience is the basis upon which God judges?
It is you who said, "Conscience is about feeling certain."Feelings? Random emotions make for a strawman caricature of my position, obviously.
Why should human words, or even human concepts, or even human gibberish limit God? They cannot. You say God is not omnipotent, then post some foolish self-contradictory notion to prove it. Why should God give value to what you call mathematical PI when even WE recognize this is only a mathematically useful rendering that can be used in equations to approximate related amounts. God ascribed the absolute value of anything that has absolute value. But you want to submit him to OUR values, OUR notions, OUR constructions?(Sigh). Mathematical PI calculates out to an endless number of decimal digits. Your claim is that, right now, God has the whole infinite list in His mind? How many digits is that, exactly? This is pure gibberish.
Well, actually, it also says all things were made by him. But you have presented him as subject to principles from beyond his control, from outside himself. That is not the God who made all things. If God is all-powerful, then why do you paint him as a resident of reality subject to its principles, just as we are, instead of the one who made all the principles of reality, and indeed is the source of 'fact' itself?The Bible tells us that God is the all-powerful King of Kings and Lord or Lords. That's all it says. Stop imposing your self-contradictory philosophical gibberish upon the text.
I've been asking for a single scenario for hundreds of posts. You fail to provide it - and then accuse ME of dancing?More time-wasting wiggling and dancing around. . .
I'm pretty sure that, at birth, our God-given conscience isn't yet updated/educated with that kind of specific information. What's your point here? That a man should try to be as evil as possible because his conscience is uninformed about shrimp?Likewise, what in the conscience tells one not to eat shrimp?
Which obviously doesn't mean random uncontrolled spontaneous emotions, contrary to your polemical insinuations and subtle antagonistic slanders and misleading caricatures.It is you who said, "Conscience is about feeling certain."
What, I ask again, does the definition of conscience, or even the rule of conscience as you posit it, have to do with whether conscience is the ultimate authority judging us?Why you think I should have to prove a logical necessity is beyond me. But I'll humor you for a moment - as long as you're not expecting me to prove something 100%. Again, I can't even prove that you exist. Here again is the rule of conscience:
If I feel certain that action-A is evil, and B is good, I should opt for B.
Certainty is the opposite of doubt. Therefore a reasonably equivalent paraphrase would be this.
If I have doubts about whether action-A is good, but feel certain that action-B is good, it would be best to go with B.
I'm pretty sure that's what Paul stipulated at Romans 14:23:
"The one who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that is not from faith is sin."
In that verse, Paul defines righteousness, not in terms of specific laws, but in terms of whether a man feels certain, on the one hand, or feels doubts on the other.
If you are only asking whether a person should or should not obey their conscience, great! But that isn't the question. The question is whether conscience is the ultimate rule of behavior.You tell me. Does the Bible admonish men to:
....(A) Try to be as evil as possible?
....(B) Try to be as good as possible?
I'm pretty sure that choice B is correct. It just so happens that choice B is a reiteration of the rule of conscience.
Are you going with choice A? Do I need to prove to you that choice B is correct?
I have no intentions of playing in your swamp. Can you please show how conscience is the ultimate rule by which a person is judged?Which obviously doesn't mean random uncontrolled spontaneous emotions, contrary to your polemical insinuations and subtle antagonistic slanders and misleading caricatures.
I am not following you. The rule of conscience is my final authority in ever scenario because I should always try my best to do good.I can't believe you are debating the rule of conscience instead of conscience being the final authority over right and wrong.
Again, I give you - wait for it - the whole Bible. The whole Bible admonishes men to try to do as much good as possible, not as much evil as possible.I have no intentions of playing in your swamp. Can you please show how conscience is the ultimate rule by which a person is judged?
Because God is greater than the conscience. Simple.I am not following you. The rule of conscience is my final authority in ever scenario because I should always try my best to do good.
I'm still not sure why you are in disagreement.
The Bible is telling us to pursue Christ and his righteousness. Hopefully conscience will come along.Again, I give you - wait for it - the whole Bible. The whole Bible admonishes men to try to do as much good as possible, not as much evil as possible.
Are you saying that the Bible is misleading us?
Can you please just make it simple - boil it down to one scenario with details explaining why, in that scenario, a man should try to do evil?Post #2302 ... but you already dismissed it.
You haven't thought it through. A God who is fair and just cannot expect us to pursue something we know nothing about. We must have some degree of felt certainty about the correct course of action.The Bible is telling us to pursue Christ and his righteousness. Hopefully conscience will come along.
See above.Nevertheless, you have not shown how conscience is the final rule of behavior. You have only so far in that regard, presented the claim that it is better to do as conscience requires, than to do otherwise. That is irrelevant to the question of whether conscience bears the authority of final rule of behavior.
God is greater than math. Therefore 2 plus 2 is not 4?Because God is greater than the conscience. Simple.
Self-contradictory? Foolish? Explain to me, if I'm so foolish, how infinity is a specific/discrete number.Why should human words, or even human concepts, or even human gibberish limit God? They cannot. You say God is not omnipotent, then post some foolish self-contradictory notion to prove it.
Dancing and deflecting. Nothing more.Why should God give value to what you call mathematical PI when even WE recognize this is only a mathematically useful rendering that can be used in equations to approximate related amounts.
We've been over this. You're just in denial about the fact that your God, like mine, is subject to an existence He did not opt for and is thus beyond His control. Can He cease to exist? Clearly, no.Well, actually, it also says all things were made by him. But you have presented him as subject to principles from beyond his control, from outside himself. That is not the God who made all things. If God is all-powerful, then why do you paint him as a resident of reality subject to its principles, just as we are, instead of the one who made all the principles of reality, and indeed is the source of 'fact' itself?
Did you comment on Romans 14:23? That verse seems to be a fairly clear attestation of what I am saying.What, I ask again, does the definition of conscience, or even the rule of conscience as you posit it, have to do with whether conscience is the ultimate authority judging us?
Here also, from Romans 14.What, I ask again, does the definition of conscience, or even the rule of conscience as you posit it, have to do with whether conscience is the ultimate authority judging us?
In addition to Romans 14, care to address 1 Corinthians 8 as well?What, I ask again, does the definition of conscience, or even the rule of conscience as you posit it, have to do with whether conscience is the ultimate authority judging us?
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