How much power do you have, to force someone else to do something?

Gottservant · Aug 12, 2012

This is a simple question. A question which is, if you will, the diametric opposite of the typical philosophical question - which are more about influence and persuasion, than force.

How much power do you have, to force someone to do what you want?

Have you ever thought about it? Have you ever wondered if that makes you corrupt, or would corrupt you? What would you do, if someone was forcing you to stop forcing people, or even forcing you to stop using force altogether?

Do you think its ok, as long as everyone gets to force someone, sometime?

Blayz · Aug 12, 2012

Depends on the person, nature of the force, and outcome.

I have the power to force my team to work on the projects I designate, to the point of firing them if they do not do it.

Does that count?

Tiberius · Aug 13, 2012

The power to force a person to perform Action X is to set things up so that they want Y more than they want to avoid X, and then make sure that they can't get Y unless they perform X.

Parents have their child kidnapped. They want to get their child back (Y), so they must pay a ransom (X). They can't get Y unless they perform X. They can't get the child back unless they pay the ransom.

ANy situation where a person is doing something falls into this category.

You want Pizza Hut for dinner. You want a pizza (y), so you must pay the clerk (X).

The only difference is that corrupt people are able to manipulate the system to get power, and use this power (in the form of favours, money, sex, etc) to provide a very tempting Y for someone - who has to do a rather unpleasant X.

Paradoxum · Aug 13, 2012

I'm not sure I understand the question. By forcing someone do you mean grabbing their arms and making them do something? Holding a gun to their head? Threatening they will lose their job or go to prison?

Anyway, I have no such power.

Elioenai26 · Aug 13, 2012

No human can force another human to do anything against their will.

Noxot · Aug 13, 2012

Elioenai26 said:
No human can force another human to do anything against their will.

hahaha what would make you think that? or what exactly do you mean by that? what about rape? someone who is raped is forced to do all kinds of things against their will.

Murmur · Aug 13, 2012

Noxot said:
what about rape? someone who is raped is forced to do all kinds of things against their will.

I was raped. I am also offended by your casual attitude for such a heinous act and have reported this post.

Good day.

Tiberius · Aug 13, 2012

Elioenai26 said:
No human can force another human to do anything against their will.

So if someone puts a gun to your wife's head and says, "I want you to rob that bank or I'll kill her," what are you going to do?

grasping the after wind · Aug 13, 2012

Gottservant said:
This is a simple question. A question which is, if you will, the diametric opposite of the typical philosophical question - which are more about influence and persuasion, than force.

How much power do you have, to force someone to do what you want?

Have you ever thought about it? Have you ever wondered if that makes you corrupt, or would corrupt you? What would you do, if someone was forcing you to stop forcing people, or even forcing you to stop using force altogether?

Do you think its ok, as long as everyone gets to force someone, sometime?

No one has enough power to force someone to do something. Some possess sufficient power to kill another if that other refuses to do what the powerful one wants but in the end that power cannot force another to do something. The coerced party may decide that it is not in their best interest to defy the powerful one but the coerced party always has the option of defiance.

Tiberius · Aug 13, 2012

grasping the after wind said:
No one has enough power to force someone to do something. Some possess sufficient power to kill another if that other refuses to do what the powerful one wants but in the end that power cannot force another to do something. The coerced party may decide that it is not in their best interest to defy the powerful one but the coerced party always has the option of defiance.

I just forced my girlfriend to put her hand on top of her head by grabbing her and physically forcing her arm into that position. She tried to defy, but I am stronger than her and was able to force her anyway.

So I guess I do have the power to force someone to do something after all.

KimberlyAA · Aug 13, 2012

It's ok to force someone to do something once it's beneficial or for some greater good. People who act like dictators, though, are just plain horrible. If I want someone to do something for me, I will be respectful unless it's absolutely mandatory then threats may have to be in order esp. if there needs to be some urgency.

Noxot · Aug 14, 2012

KimberlyAA said:
It's ok to force someone to do something once it's beneficial or for some greater good. People who act like dictators, though, are just plain horrible. If I want someone to do something for me, I will be respectful unless it's absolutely mandatory then threats may have to be in order esp. if there needs to be some urgency.

I can't agree with that. who gets to say what is the greater good or beneficial. it's beneficial to do all kinds of things but for who?

Noxot · Aug 14, 2012

Murmur said:
I was raped. I am also offended by your casual attitude for such a heinous act and have reported this post.

Good day.

I am so offended by the way you act towards me in that post. I guess there is not much I can say to you though because you will just get offended more. ( so frustrating! )

Eudaimonist · Aug 14, 2012

Gottservant said:
Do you think its ok, as long as everyone gets to force someone, sometime?

Force for the defense of individual rights is fine. Let's call that the defensive use of force.

Force for the sake of tyranny is not fine, no matter how much power or knowledge is involved.

eudaimonia,

Mark

quatona · Aug 15, 2012

Gottservant said:
This is a simple question. A question which is, if you will, the diametric opposite of the typical philosophical question - which are more about influence and persuasion, than force.

How much power do you have, to force someone to do what you want?

Have you ever thought about it? Have you ever wondered if that makes you corrupt, or would corrupt you? What would you do, if someone was forcing you to stop forcing people, or even forcing you to stop using force altogether?

Do you think its ok, as long as everyone gets to force someone, sometime?

Considering that in another thread maintained that even rendered "having knowledge of the existence of something" was a form of "being forced" I would like to know what definition of "force" you are working from, for purposes of this thread.

Gottservant · Aug 15, 2012

Wow, great posts. Really enjoyed reading those - may post later.

Re: definition of force... I guess the ability to fix in place a particular meaning, over and above other meanings.

Elioenai26 · Aug 15, 2012

Tiberius said:
So if someone puts a gun to your wife's head and says, "I want you to rob that bank or I'll kill her," what are you going to do?

If I rob the bank, it is because I choose to do so, I choose to rob the bank in hopes that my hypothetical wife's life might be spared.

Elioenai26 · Aug 15, 2012

Noxot said:
hahaha what would make you think that? or what exactly do you mean by that? what about rape? someone who is raped is forced to do all kinds of things against their will.

If a person's volitional capacity is temporarily abrogated, then the person's capacity to choose between options is nullified.

If a person is knocked unconscious over the head, taken somewhere and bound by ropes and is raped, of course this person has no control over the other person who is committing the act against them. And of course this is not the victim's will!

To clarify, the victim has not been forced to do anything against his or her will because their capacity to choose has been temporarily abrogated. I.e. they have no choice in the matter. Therefore it is not a matter of will, and therefore your example of rape is misapplied.

Davian · Aug 15, 2012

Gottservant said:
Wow, great posts. Really enjoyed reading those - may post later.

Re: definition of force... I guess the ability to fix in place a particular meaning, over and above other meanings.

That brings to my mind childhood indoctrination.

grasping the after wind · Aug 16, 2012

Tiberius said:
I just forced my girlfriend to put her hand on top of her head by grabbing her and physically forcing her arm into that position. She tried to defy, but I am stronger than her and was able to force her anyway.

So I guess I do have the power to force someone to do something after all.

You are mistaken you forcibly placed your girlfriend's arm on top of her head you did not force her to put her arm on her head. A huge difference. You did it not her. You do not have the power to make her do it herself if she decides she will not. It is a common fallacy among bullies that they have power to make others do things.

How much power do you have, to force someone else to do something?

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That's grasping after the wind

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That's grasping after the wind

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