How literally do you interpret the Bible?

VigoMedic · Nov 14, 2003

It may seem like a silly question, but I think that it is a legitimate one. Several of the forums in which I have read and participated have dealt with issues that come back to how literal one takes scripture. So, how literally do you take scripture? Over the next couple of posts, I submit to you some quotes that capture how I feel:

The Rev. Christopher L. Webber said:
...the Bible is not a set of instructions that can give us simple answers to all questions or a text with which to prove points. In the first place, the guidance the Bible gives was provided for a society very different from ours and still in the early stages of growth in knowledge of God's love. The existence of such instructions as to stone a disobedient son (Deut. 21:18-21) should give us pause in simply quoting the Bible to justify our actions. Sometimes Jesus himself overrode scriptural commandments with new commands, as in the Sermon on the Mount [reference omitted]. So, when we find the Bible saying, "An eye for an eye and a tooth for tooth," we can read it as a bloodthirsty law to be ignored (which makes large parts of the Bible irrelevant), an unchanging standard to be enforced in our modern penal code (which puts us back to a pre-Christian world), or we can learn through further study that this command was a step forward for a world whose usual rule was unlimited vengeance (e.g., a life for an eye), and that it was a rule superseded in its turn by Jesus' injunction to turn the other cheek [reference omitted].
...
...the Bible is not a rule book. If God had wanted us to have a rule book, surely a better one could have been provided than this. The Bible is something quite different; we go to it not to find specific words to answer our questions but to find the Word who created us and knows our need before we ask.
The Bible is a collection of writings produced at various times and places over a span of more than a thousand years in which we can see what God has done through individuals and through the history of nations and peoples.
...
[when we say the Bible is the]"rule and ultimate standard of faith," it does not mean that every word of the Bible contains the same authority. Martin Luther once spoke of the Bible as being like the manger at Bethlehem: containing the Christ Child but surrounded by much straw. That seems overly harsh, but most Christians would agree that they find the Twenty-third Psalm more valuable than the Fifty-eighth and the fifth chapter of Matthew of more help than the third chapter of Leviticus. And even straw serves a purpose: Mary would have been reluctant to place the newborn baby on bare planks, and even the "strawiest" parts of the Bible provide context and setting for the rest.

There is much more to the this writing that the above quote (it came from a book); I submitted what I felt most accurately illustrated my thoughts and contributed to this topic.

VigoMedic · Nov 14, 2003

The Rt. Rev. Cate Waynick said:
"It will help to be clear what we mean when we say that the Bible is the Word of God. It is one thing to say that we encounter God in the writings of inspired people (or groups of people) and that the Spirit of God leads us as we study and pray with those writings. It is quite another to claim that each and every word was dictated by God and written down verbatim. We claim the collection of writings we call the Bible to be the Word of God -- we do not claim them each and all to be the words of God. (Emphasis added)

It is one thing to say that Scripture contains all things necessary to salvation, and another to say that everything in the writings must be believed for salvation. The collection of writings we call the Bible was written over time, compiled over time, and has been variously translated and interpreted over time." The discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls in 1948 spurred intense scholarship, which has helped us to understand more fully the ways in which the Bible took shape within the life of the Church. (Emphasis added)

"..."

We claim that Jesus gives us the clearest view of God, and because we are Christians it is reasonable for us to read all the writings through the lens of the Gospels - those writings which give account of the life and teachings of Jesus. Such a stance does not discard the other writings, but rather uses the Gospels to help us interpret them. It seems faithful that we should allow what we can understand of the Word Incarnate to guide us as we study the other words...

"..."

"The use of this combination of Scripture, Tradition, and Reason [NOTE: The author is referring to a portion of the writing that I have intentionally left out; mentioning Scripture, Tradition and Reason, the guiding forces of the liturgies in our Church] has led us to claim that it is unacceptable to own other human beings as slaves, that we will no longer condemn Galileo and Copernicus as heretics, and that God does indeed call women to positions of leadership in the Church and the world--even though these assertions seem contrary to parts of Scripture. The lens of the Gospels and our reason and experience often give us a perspective our forebears could not have had."

"...when we believe we have discovered and embraced the totality of truth we are in spiritual danger.

The Bible remains central for us as a vehicle for encountering and understanding the God Who loves us, and Who calls us to love each other as we are loved in Christ. This has not changed, nor will it."

VigoMedic · Nov 14, 2003

Cynthia McFarland and Brian Reed (anglicansonline.com) said:
We can't count the number of times recently that we've seen or heard the phrase 'Scripture is completely clear that...' In general, the people we've overheard making that assertion do not speak any language but English and use the word 'scripture' to mean the one English translation of the Bible that they own or have read. The inspired word of God, written in human languages and translated by humans, is read and interpreted by fallible mortals. We minimise the gift and the power of Scripture when we make it as simple and transparent as grammer-school primer.

Simply put, I believe that God created man and God knew that he created man as fallible, as well as intentionally giving us our free will. God is also responsible for inspiring the writings of the Bible, by those same fallible human beings. Surely our God of love and justice, being responsible for both the nature of man and the text of the scriptures, allows for our varying viewpoints of certain items of scripture.

Okay, enough of my quotes and rambling... I know that this topic will stir some people's passions and I pray that we can have meaningful discussion!

Peace be with you always!

dignitized · Nov 14, 2003

I have no doubt that EVERY word of Scripture is truthfully recorded and recorded for a reason. There are no words in Scripture by accident nor are there any "myths" within the pages of Scripture.

Rechtgläubig · Nov 14, 2003

Simply put, I believe that God created man and God knew that he created man as fallible, as well as intentionally giving us our free will. God is also responsible for inspiring the writings of the Bible, by those same fallible human beings. Surely our God of love and justice, being responsible for both the nature of man and the text of the scriptures, allows for our varying viewpoints of certain items of scripture.

To say that scripture is inspired by God means that man's infalliable factor is void or overridden because "God breathed" His Word into His chosen writers hearts and pens.

Jacob4Jesus · Nov 15, 2003

The Bible was written by men and interpreted into different languages by men. By looking at the history of the times that certain Bibles were translated, it's easy to see that man has changed and edited things to suit their own need. Whether the original writings were word by word the word of God, who knows? Can anyone get me a first edition Bible? Didn't think so. I take the Bible very seriously, but it's been in the hands of man and governments long enough to have been changed too many times.

My arguement lies in one factor: I told some conservative Christians that if God wanted to stop Gene Robinson from becoming a bishop, he would have done so. I was told that God didn't work like that. He expects us to make the right decisions. Well, that same logic applies to the Bible. You can say that God wanted it to be written as it is, but if he doesn't intervene in cases of consecrating a bishop, I am sure he wouldn't when Bible's are being translated either.

I generally rely on my personal relationship with Jesus to help with issues and solve things for me. That has helped me a lot to come to the conclusions that I have.

VigoMedic · Nov 15, 2003

Br. Max said:
I have no doubt that EVERY word of Scripture is truthfully recorded and recorded for a reason. There are no words in Scripture by accident nor are there any "myths" within the pages of Scripture.

Br. Max,

I have no doubt that every word of scripture has been recorded for a reason either. However, it was recorded in a certain era. (Of course I don't believe any of it is a myth!) Plus, I do believe that the scriptures' teachings give us purpose today as well. However, I am of the belief that Scripture, combined with our tradition and reason give us a clearer picture of God's plan for our lives in our time. I again quote Christopher Webber:

Earlier ages lacked the depth of historical understanding that we have gained; they judged everything in the terms of their own day, as Renaissance artists, for example, depicted biblical figures in Renaissance garb. Today, we understand that other ages have not all dressed alike and thought alike and we are less likely to try to squeeze their thoughts into the same mold.

Of course, we too are limited by our age and its expectations. Some Christians today would reject out of hand biblical passages that conflict with modern science and some, on the other hand, would reject modern science where it seems to conflict with the Bible. [While others] have found it better to try to read the words of the Bible with as full as possible an understanding of the situation of those who wrote and first heard them. To see and hear the Scriptures that way can then help us to interpret them for the needs and situation of our own times.

Peace.

Deamiter · Nov 15, 2003

These are some very good points! I think that I and many people like me have fallen into the trap of defending the Bible emotionally instead of rationally (or indeed spiritually). There are some OBVIOUS, though equally obviously inconsiquential errors such as referring to the mustard seed as the 'smallest seed.' Since then there have been even smaller seeds found in the Amazon rainforests, though until recent times, this passage would not have been challenged.

Some people believe (as I used to) that if there is ONE error in the Bible, none of it can be taken as truth because it will always be in question. However, this view is totally ignoring God's ability to work in our hearts and prove Himself to us outside of the Bible. I totally agree that the Bible was not written to give us answers to earthly problems as much as to lead us to the truth in Him. It is not meant to be a textbook reciting facts to us. It is meant to lead us to a meaningful relationship with our creator.

FreeinChrist · Nov 15, 2003

Br. Max said:
I have no doubt that EVERY word of Scripture is truthfully recorded and recorded for a reason. There are no words in Scripture by accident nor are there any "myths" within the pages of Scripture.

AMEN!

God is fully capable of preserving His Word! We can compare the KJV/NASB to:
Codex Sinaiticus (sp?), a copy of the scriptures from about 340 A.D.
The Codex Basilicus from about 350 A.D.
The Codex Alexandrinus (sp?) from about 450 A.D.
The Latin Vulgate from 450 A.D.
The Ephraem manuscript of 450 A.D.
The Beza Manuscriptu fo 550 A.D. and several more of that time.
We also have the writings of the Early church Fathers who quoted most of the New Testament.

The Bible needs to be interpreted in terms of who the audience was, and the dispensation they were in. The Law was give to show us as sinners, and the judgment deserved (like stoning). But God also showed His mercy in providing the sacrificial system so that the mercy seat of God could be approached. Through Christ, we can now approach the mercy seat at any time. Paul discussed how the Law was given so God could show His mercy in Romans. And James points out thatmercy triumphs over judgment.

But the Bible also shows who God is, and what God expects, and shows man's fallen nature. We CAN look to the Bible for instructions on how to live. We can see what is an abomination to God by reading the Bible and we can also find out that there will be judgment for rejecting God. John writes some clear instructins - that those who practice lawlessness (a word also meaning wickedness) is not born of God.

dignitized · Nov 15, 2003

Deamiter:

It is a common mistake to think of the mustard seed as the smallest seed, but that is not what Scripture records. Scripture records that the mustard seed is "the least of the seeds."

Matthew 13 32 which less, indeed, is than all the seeds, but when it may be grown, is greatest of the herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the heaven do come and rest in its branches.'

The point being made by Christ was not the smallness of the mustard seed, but the rapid and amazing growth of the seed from small seed to large tree.

Often what is seen as a contradiction or error in the scriptures is an error in OUR perceptions of what the scriptures say. Some say that Gen 1 and Gen 2 are a repeating of the same creation story and THUS are contradictory accounts. I submit that they are parts one and two of a linear account of creation. Part one taking place on Earth, part 2 in the garden - a second and separate creation from the first -foreshadowing the new creation of Christs 8th day resurrection. Think about it.

Pax et bonum.

BarbB · Nov 15, 2003

Jacob4Jesus said:
My arguement lies in one factor: I told some conservative Christians that if God wanted to stop Gene Robinson from becoming a bishop, he would have done so. I was told that God didn't work like that. He expects us to make the right decisions. Well, that same logic applies to the Bible. You can say that God wanted it to be written as it is, but if he doesn't intervene in cases of consecrating a bishop, I am sure he wouldn't when Bible's are being translated either.

Not wanting to derail the thread but, I agree that God allowed Gene Robinson to be consecrated Bishop, but what if He allowed it because it's His will that the church be split? Hmmmm?

Re the Bible, I'm reasonably positive that the Bible has been written and historically translated according to God's will. Some of the newer translations may be suspect, I don't know. That's why I use the older!

eldermike · Nov 15, 2003

The Bible is foolishness to those that do not believe.
The word of God must be rightly divided.
God called some to be prophets, some teachers. Prophets today are intended to rightly divide truth from scripture.

Nothing is missing in scripture. Our contempoary issues with scripture are sin, it's nothing new the NT is full of the same issue.

With this as context: The bible is Gods word. How we use it is the issue. There are teachers and learners, remember only some are teachers. So, if you find a precieved error in scripture then you might be a learner in need of a teacher. This does not mean that teachers are not also learners.

What we struggle with most is the application of scripture to our lives. Your view of scripture is dirrectly tied to your obediance to scripture.

Dispensations must be divided, that requires a teacher. Otherwise we may find a scripture that says we must kill witches, and use it to justify all the disires of our hearts.

So, an unsubmitted life is drifting, being tossed by every wave. We must be submitted to a church family and humble enough to be taught. We must also be with a family that understands that our obediance to God is not a list of things to change, but it's an inward change from a personal relationship with God and His word, and not to be judged by us.

IMHO.
Eldermike

wonder111 · Nov 15, 2003

wonder111 · Nov 15, 2003

Jacob4Jesus said:
I generally rely on my personal relationship with Jesus to help with issues and solve things for me. That has helped me a lot to come to the conclusions that I have.

that's true to me also. The bible is truth to me, but not all in the literal sense. When i'm in the spirit and reading the bible at the same time, I get the truth out of it. But my relationship with God is what fills my life and guides me in everything I do, the bible can not guide me like the Holy Spirit can.

I know many people believe Adam was physically missing a rib, I find that hard. But it in no way takes away from the truth. I still understand the lessons in the parables that Jesus taught also.

Another thing, last night we were discussing the issue of the apocrypha being left out of the protestant bibles, but the Catholics say it was in the original. There are some issues regarding translation for sure

dignitized · Nov 15, 2003

There is one thing you are overlooking when you trust to your own understanding as it applies to Scripture. Scripture teaches and the fathers of the church confirm that it is not open to private interpretation. Private interpretation is how we end up with Moonies, and Mormons, and JW, and Christadephians, and . . . and . . . and . . .

wonder111 · Nov 15, 2003

Br. Max said:
There is one thing you are overlooking when you trust to your own understanding as it applies to Scripture. Scripture teaches and the fathers of the church confirm that it is not open to private interpretation. Private interpretation is how we end up with Moonies, and Mormons, and JW, and Christadephians, and . . . and . . . and . . .

I am soooo far from trusting my own understanding. I pray in tongue because of that reason, and the power and love that is involved. I trust 100% in God only. I never ask for things that are only in my will, but trust the Lord to guide me in my ways. I'm always one for saying do not rely on our own understanding. If that is the definition of leaning on my own understanding, than it's also your understanding to interpret it literally

OnederWoman · Nov 15, 2003

2 Timothy 3: 16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

I believe the Bible to be infallible... and good for growing Spiritually in my relationship with Jesus as well as being a practical guide for living daily on this earth.

Deamiter · Nov 15, 2003

Good point! I'll assume that you're correct on the mustard seed thing from a direct Greek translation, and not simply another version as I have no time to verify it these days.

My point is that it is nit-picky details like this that the Bible is trying to avoid. Jesus didn't use facts or details to convert people. He used action and love - as a believer who honestly wishes to be further my 'conversion' I try hard to let my Lord work through me to further our loving relationship rather than to educate me about our universe. That way lies either confusion or close-mindedness and I don't see either being constructive. The facts are what I'm paying 20k a year for .

dignitized · Nov 15, 2003

wonder111 said:
I am soooo far from trusting my own understanding. I pray in tongue because of that reason, and the power and love that is involved. I trust 100% in God only. I never ask for things that are only in my will, but trust the Lord to guide me in my ways. I'm always one for saying do not rely on our own understanding. If that is the definition of leaning on my own understanding, than it's also your understanding to interpret it literally

If you trust God, why do you not trust the revelation God has given to those who have come before us? There have been a great many giants of spirituality who have come before us. Should I doubt what God has shown them via the Holy Spirit?

How do you know when what you believe the HS is showing you is correct? Lets not forget that Satan can and does appear as an angel of light. He is very crafty and decieves the best of us from time to time.

america · Nov 16, 2003

VigoMedic said:
It may seem like a silly question, but I think that it is a legitimate one. Several of the forums in which I have read and participated have dealt with issues that come back to how literal one takes scripture. So, how literally do you take scripture? Over the next couple of posts, I submit to you some quotes that capture how I feel:

There is much more to the this writing that the above quote (it came from a book); I submitted what I felt most accurately illustrated my thoughts and contributed to this topic.

I take the bible literally and that is how it was meant to be taken.

How literally do you interpret the Bible?

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