How is this not considered to be the Inspired Word of GOD?

SeraphimsCherub · Feb 10, 2011

In the second book of Esdras in the Apocrypha this was written 400 years before Christ:[FONT='Verdana', 'Arial', 'Helvetica', sans-serif]28[/FONT] For my son Jesus shall be revealed with those that be with him, and they that remain shall rejoice within four hundred years. [FONT='Verdana', 'Arial', 'Helvetica', sans-serif]29[/FONT] After these years shall my son Christ die, and all men that have life.
2 Esd 7:28-29 (KJVApocrypha)Now thats what i call freaken amazing!!! And there isn't any prophecy of Christ in the entire Old Testament canon that comes close to surpassing the clarity of that!! Just wondering??

Jpark · Feb 10, 2011

A quick search on Wikipedia reveals that some of the verses in 2 Esdras, especially the ones that seem to support Christianity, are probably late third century additions. All the 66 books in the Bible are 100% God ordained. But Apocrypha is not a reliable authority.

wpage · Feb 10, 2011

The parameters are flawed.

nobdysfool · Feb 10, 2011

Wikipedia is not what I would call an authoritative source, although I do agree that the Apocrypha is not canonical for good reason.

laconicstudent · Feb 10, 2011

2 Esdras is canonical, so you don't have to worry.

Hammster · Feb 11, 2011

And this has what to do with Soteriology?

laconicstudent · Feb 11, 2011

Hammster said:
And this has what to do with Soteriology?

If you read the verse, it is describing salvation.

Hisbygrace · Feb 14, 2011

MOD HAT ON
This thread was moved from Soteriology.
MOD HAT OFF

Slaol121 · Feb 14, 2011

I consider all books that were part of the Septuagint to be inspired (including 2 Esdras). I also consider the book of 1 Enoch to be inspired due to it's influential role in the New Testament, and in the formation of the Christian view on Angels and Demons.

noobio · Feb 14, 2011

SeraphimsCherub said:
In the second book of Esdras in the Apocrypha this was written 400 years before Christ:[FONT='Verdana', 'Arial', 'Helvetica', sans-serif]28[/font] For my son Jesus shall be revealed with those that be with him, and they that remain shall rejoice within four hundred years. [FONT='Verdana', 'Arial', 'Helvetica', sans-serif]29[/font] After these years shall my son Christ die, and all men that have life.
2 Esd 7:28-29 (KJVApocrypha)Now thats what i call freaken amazing!!! And there isn't any prophecy of Christ in the entire Old Testament canon that comes close to surpassing the clarity of that!! Just wondering??

If the aporcypha is the word of God then why wasn't it in the Tanakh which came out way before the Bible? The Cathloic Bible has 7 books shoved in that were never the word of God. The Tanakh always believed to be the Word of God and never had these books. Why all of the sudden there is 7 books there?

I do believe that there is some truth in these books and good teachings of course. But it does not go with the rest of the OT scripture. There is contridiction bewteen these 7 books and the Tanakh.

GreekOrthodox · Feb 15, 2011

noobio said:
If the aporcypha is the word of God then why wasn't it in the Tanakh which came out way before the Bible? The Cathloic Bible has 7 books shoved in that were never the word of God. The Tanakh always believed to be the Word of God and never had these books. Why all of the sudden there is 7 books there?

I do believe that there is some truth in these books and good teachings of course. But it does not go with the rest of the OT scripture. There is contradiction between these 7 books and the Tanakh.

The Hebrew Scriptures were solidified during early Rabbinic Judaism, in theory by a council held in Jamnia around 90AD. That being said, there is not good evidence for an official Jewish council at this time. In any case, by the second century, Rabbinic Judaism had decided that only books written in Hebrew would be considered canonical for the Jewish diaspora.

The books that make up the Greek Old Testament or the Septuagint were translated by Greek speaking Jews in Alexandria, being completed in 132BC (200 years prior to the formation of the Hebrew canon). The Greek translation was the most-used set of Scriptures for Jews (and eventually Christians) living outside of Palestine. This canon includes the Deutero-canonical or Apocryphal books. In fact there are instances (and I would have to dig them up), where the NT writers quote an OT passage that was rendered in Greek, not Hebrew. The major example that comes to mind is Isaiah 7:14. Al'mah in Hebrew means young woman, but NOT specifically a virgin. However in Greek, παρθενος - "parthenos", does mean virgin.

The overwhelming evidence is that the Apostolic Church used the Septuagint simply because the Hebrew TaNaKh didnt exist until Judaism and Christianity had already gone their separate ways.

Brian

SeraphimsCherub · Feb 15, 2011

Yeah, i just got alittle excited when i read those couple of verses about Jesus! But it seems like there are golden nuggetts that pop up here & there through out the books, but as a whole i know by the Spirit that they aren't InSpired as Being The Authoritative Divine Word OF GOD, as the 66 Books of the canon are! Amen!! GOD Bless you!!!

LST 1154 · Feb 16, 2011

The Book of Mormon also talks about Jesus and claims to predate the NT, so shall we add it to the canon?

LST

Slaol121 · Feb 16, 2011

LST 1154 said:
The Book of Mormon also talks about Jesus and claims to predate the NT, so shall we add it to the canon?

LST

Since the earliest tangible evidence we have for the book of Mormon is a 19th century manuscript made using a seer stone and an old hat to translate from non-existent gold plates, we can "doubt" its authenticity more than we can the book of Esdras.

Would you not agree?

SeraphimsCherub · Feb 16, 2011

No brother...lol No let's stay as far away as we can from the book of mormon,and the watch tower as we can!! But we still need to "Love" all people even though they don't believe what we do!! The Love of Christ Conquers all things,not my knowledge,or wisdom of doctrine,faith that can move mountains,understanding all mysteries,and the Word of prophecy, and give all that i have too the poor, die in the "Name of Jesus" but have not (Agapie)LOVE I AM NOTHING!!!!!!

Slaol121 · Feb 16, 2011

SeraphimsCherub said:
No brother...lol No let's stay as far away as we can from the book of mormon,and the watch tower as we can!! But we still need to "Love" all people even though they don't believe what we do!! The Love of Christ Conquers all things,not my knowledge,or wisdom of doctrine,faith that can move mountains,understanding all mysteries,and the Word of prophecy, and give all that i have too the poor, die in the "Name of Jesus" but have not (Agapie)LOVE I AM NOTHING!!!!!!

I have several friends that are LDS, and very fine people. I wasn't trying to be spiteful - just trying to set up some sort of historical standard for judging a book to be from God.

SeraphimsCherub · Feb 16, 2011

Slaol121 said:
Since the earliest tangible evidence we have for the book of Mormon is a 19th century manuscript made using a seer stone and an old hat to translate from non-existent gold plates, we can "doubt" its authenticity more than we can the book of Esdras.

Would you not agree?

Yeah i totally agree with you there!! Plus the Apocrypha Books talk alot about the Holy Spirit, GOD'S Grace, Christ The Son ! As far as i have read of it,i haven't seen anything that contridicts that of the One True GOD such as the book of Mormon ,or any other acultic belief systems!

How is this not considered to be the Inspired Word of GOD?

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