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If eternal life cannot be achieved through one's work, then it also cannot be lost through one's work.No work has to be done to attain eternal life in heaven. We do need to accept discipline. Once we reach the point of eternal life and we listened to Jesus we could have let Him put us to sleep, kill us, to put to death the sins of the flesh. Ananias and Sapphira went to sleep under discipline and went to heaven. The drunks in 1Corinthians 11:29-30 went to sleep under discipline and went to heaven. Ananias and wife did give some money to the church, but they did it for the wrong reason, so it didn't count. Both the groups took discipline, so they were sons of God. Because they reached the point of eternal life and took discipline they went to heaven. The point of eternal life is when we either accept or reject discipline. After accepting discipline, we are sons of God and have eternal life in heaven. From this point on we are required to do works and walk in the Spirit to continue living in the flesh. To walk in the Spirit, we do works of the law out of love for God.
People do not lose salvation through sin. They lose salvation because they love the world more than they love what Jesus offers. People will not hope to get into heaven if Jesus tells them to give up the things of the world when they love the world more than what Jesus offers. That is one way to lose salvation.If eternal life cannot be achieved through one's work, then it also cannot be lost through one's work.
The death and punishment you are talking about are temporary consequences on earth, not eternal life. Once a person accepts Christ. Once someone accept Christ and receive the gift of salvation, he will never, ever lose that gift.
I notice that you have used the term "disciplined," which appears to imply adherence to specific rules and regulations—essentially, a set of dos and don'ts required to attain heaven. This concept closely resembles the principles found in Old Testament law.People do not lose salvation through sin. They lose salvation because they love the world more than they love what Jesus offers. People will not hope to get into heaven if Jesus tells them to give up the things of the world when they love the world more than what Jesus offers. That is one way to lose salvation.
Galatians 2:21 I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain." NKJV
Another way to lose salvation is to let Satan convince you that you have to do a work for it. Jesus did everything necessary for a person to get into heaven. If one doesn't believe Jesus saves without their help they don't make it.
Both of these ways happen prior to the point of reaching eternal life. Once a person enters and accepts Jesus as Lord, meaning you will follow His voice to put to death the sins of the flesh. As stated before, one can be disciplined by simply letting Jesus put you to sleep, kill the flesh. When disciplined that way people reach heaven without doing any work. Therefore, discipline is followed not to get to heaven, it is followed to continue physical life.
No! As I have stated before when we enter Jesus, we can go to heaven by simply letting Jesus kill us physically instead of giving up the sin He is convicting us of. Because God has granted us repentance to life, we do not need to repent of that sin to get into heaven. We do need to repent of that sin to walk in the spirit and continue to live physically. Therefore, we can get into heaven without following any rules except keep believing in Jesus.I notice that you have used the term "disciplined," which appears to imply adherence to specific rules and regulations—essentially, a set of dos and don'ts required to attain heaven. This concept closely resembles the principles found in Old Testament law.
We are back to square one – do you think we need to follow rules and regulation to go to haven?
I noticed that you listed "Baptist" as your religion. I have been a Christian for over 40 years and have attended many different denominations, including Catholic, Anglican, Assemblies of God, and Church of Christ. I was raised in a fundamental Baptist church, and my grandfather was a charismatic Baptist pastor. However, I have never encountered the term "discipline" used in this context within Christian theology. Could you clarify where the phrase, "Once we accept discipline," originates from?No! As I have stated before when we enter Jesus, we can go to heaven by simply letting Jesus kill us physically instead of giving up the sin He is convicting us of. Because God has granted us repentance to life, we do not need to repent of that sin to get into heaven. We do need to repent of that sin to walk in the spirit and continue to live physically. Therefore, we can get into heaven without following any rules except keep believing in Jesus.
Once we accept discipline, we are sons of God. After this we are disciplined to sanctify us. Once we are a child of God, He expects us to behave as a child of God. If we do not walk in the Spirit, God will call us to heaven. We will lose the rewards God has planned for us. The commandments we are to keep is to keep believing in Jesus. It does not take work to keep believing in Jesus, but it does require us to keep the hope we have in Jesus. That does not require any work either. If you find that God is asking too much of you then take that up with Him. I guess that maybe John is wrong, and we are not required to keep believing in Jesus.
We are also required to love our brethren, other saints. God gave is love for our brethren when we had hope in Jesus. God gives us grace for that if we are walking in the Spirit. If you refuse to use the gift that He gave you for loving the saints, why would you believe He asking too much of you?
In Websters dictionary: control gained by enforcing obedience or orderI noticed that you listed "Baptist" as your religion. I have been a Christian for over 40 years and have attended many different denominations, including Catholic, Anglican, Assemblies of God, and Church of Christ. I was raised in a fundamental Baptist church, and my grandfather was a charismatic Baptist pastor. However, I have never encountered the term "discipline" used in this context within Christian theology. Could you clarify where the phrase, "Once we accept discipline," originates from?
May be we need to start what you mean by “discipline” before we get to salvation.
I understand why you may wish to avoid using the term "work," as it can be quite revealing. Instead, you prefer terms like "discipline" “obedience” or "change our behavior," but ultimately, these all refer to the work required. At some point, I will need to put in this work—perhaps one day, I might attain salvation.In Websters dictionary: control gained by enforcing obedience or order
In Hebrews 12 they refer to it as chastise. In 1 Corinthians 11 it states "God chastises, disciplines, us to keep from being judged with the world. In Hebrews 12 they say we were chastised, disciplined, by our fathers. It means to correct some behavior in us. In our sanctification Jesus will tell us to change specific behaviors. He will also tell us to start doing certain behaviors. If we do not, He takes corrective action to get our attention.
The way Jesus guides us in sanctification is by first telling us some behavior or deeds we are doing to stop. He also will tell us some behavior or deeds that He wants us to do. If we do not act on His suggestions He will do something to us to get us to obey. The first time Jesus tells us something we are to do, He will find out if we have made Him our Lord or not. His sheep, John 6, follow His voice. If we follow His voice, we are His sheep.
You must believe that I am trying to work my way to heaven. No one who works to get to heaven will make it. The fact is I know that I am a son of God by Romans 8: 13-14. Do I believe that I am saved because I worked to put to death a the sin (Not all my sin) of the flesh? No, I know that it was Jesus' Spirit that did the work. I just followed His voice. I have since continued putting sins to death by working to rid them following His voice. Not for salvation, but to walk in the Spirit and continue living physically.I understand why you may wish to avoid using the term "work," as it can be quite revealing. Instead, you prefer terms like "discipline" “obedience” or "change our behavior," but ultimately, these all refer to the work required. At some point, I will need to put in this work—perhaps one day, I might attain salvation.
I am sorry to say , that is not salvation which is offered in the Bible. According to the Bible, salvation is described as a free gift that is received when a person accepts Christ. The moment a man accept Christ that very moment he became a new creation , a children of God, his name is written in the book of life, and he is considered justified before God. And Jesus promises that such a person cannot be taken away from him, and that their fate is secured by the Holy Spirit for eternal life.
You see, I agree with you 100% in this paragraph ( your first) .You must believe that I am trying to work my way to heaven. No one who works to get to heaven will make it. The fact is I know that I am a son of God by Romans 8: 13-14. Do I believe that I am saved because I worked to put to death a the sin (Not all my sin) of the flesh? No, I know that it was Jesus' Spirit that did the work. I just followed His voice. I have since continued putting sins to death by working to rid them following His voice. Not for salvation, but to walk in the Spirit and continue living physically.
As for not losing salvation.
1 Corinthians 11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world. NKJV
God chastens us so we will not be condemned with the world.
John 3:18 He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. NKJV
If we believe in Him why would God say that He chastens us so we will not be condemned with the world. If we cannot be condemned, lose salvation, God, is lying about the reason for His chastening those who believe? Either God is lying, or we can lose our salvation. God does not lie; we can lose salvation if we quit believing in Him. The fact is when we believe in Him, we are born from above.
John 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. NKJV
To those who received His testimony, believed in Him, He gave the right to become a child of God. We do not become a child of God simply by believing in Jesus once. We must continue to believe in Him. Can someone lose salvation by quit believing in Jesus?
2 Peter 2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error. 19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage. 20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: "A dog returns to his own vomit," and, "a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire." NKJV
No one escapes the pollution by simply knowing that you can be sinless by believing in Him. To escape the pollutions, they must have believed in Him for their salvation. No one can again become entangled unless they were free of the entanglement. And what did they do to again become entangled in the pollutions? Verse 21 they turned from the holy commandment. What commandment?
2 Peter 3:1 Beloved, I now write to you this second epistle (in both of which I stir up your pure minds by way of reminder), 2 that you may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us, the apostles of the Lord and Savior,
NKJV
Peter writes this second epistle to be mindful of the commandment of the Apostles. What are the commandments the apostles taught?
1 John 3:22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. 24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. NKJV
(Here again are those pesty commandments you find troublesome.) Those are the commandment that the people Peter described in 2Peter 2: 21 turned from. They quit believing in Jesus and became again entangled in the pollutions of the world.
You see, I agree with you 100% in this paragraph ( your first) .
I also believe that every believer, upon receiving the gift of salvation, should strive to lead a godly life by taking up their cross daily, confessing their sins as tought by Jesus in the Lord’s Prayer, loving one another, and living according to the teachings of both the Old and New Testaments while putting aside former behaviors. However, these actions are not intended to earn or retain the gift of salvation; rather, they are a response to live like a children of God, through which we are called to follow Him, abide in Him, and bear fruit.
Yet every believer sins. Despite our efforts, we still fall short. Paul observed that he often did what he didn't want to do because of his desires.
After salvation, we are assured of eternal life, but our sinful actions still have consequences on earth. For instance, if I commit adultery, I cannot blame God for my marriage ending, nor expect God to restore it simply because I am saved. Sin continues to have earthly repercussions even after salvation, though salvation secures our place in heaven. God disciplines us when we stray and there are consequences for sin, but these only affect our lives on earth, not eternal life.
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