How Homophobic Are You?

brightmorningstar · Aug 18, 2008

To Chalice_Thunder,

This is not true of those of us whom God has created gay as a part of His plan.

Actually that is not true, God has not created anyone gay. As Jesus NT teaching affirmed God’s creation purpose of woman for man for this reason a man shall be united with his wife. (Matthew 19, Ephesians 5 etc) The alternative is celibacy (Matthew 19, 1 Corinthians 7) So gay, having a same sex attraction doesn’t fit in anywhere and same sex acts are condemned as error..If you have something to support what you are saying please give it but don’t keep peddling unsubstantiated contradictions to the word of God.

I am not an MCC member. God Himself joined me and my partner over 24 years ago. Nothing you say will ever change that.

Obviously from the passages I have cited above ,amongst others, God did not join people into unions opposite to what He created them to be in., and you are deceived. Your testimony is just your own idea.

EnemyPartyII · Aug 18, 2008

Originally Posted by Polycarp_fan

Where do you get the religious authority to teach people in the Church that gay sex and gay culture is acceptable?

Gay culture is a neologism invented in YOUR MIND. Get over it.

Uber reps

EnemyPartyII · Aug 18, 2008

brightmorningstar said:
God has not created anyone gay.

So... how come there are so many homosexual people?

brightmorningstar · Aug 18, 2008

To EnemyPartyII
gay is having a same sex attraction, greed is having a selfsih desire, theft is wanting to take someone elses property, adultery is sexual attraction for a woman ourtside marriage, murder is killing life. The Bible says these things came about because of human disobedience at the fall in the garden of eden by knowing good and evil. God did not created murderers, adulterers, gays, theives and the greedy.

Wiccan_Child · Aug 18, 2008

brightmorningstar said:
To Wiccan-Child,
Then you dont really understand what Christianity is or have a clue what the majority of Christians believe. I suggest you stick to telling us about Wicca and let the Christians tell you about Christianity.

The problem, of course, is that you Christians do not agree with one another. As I said, the majority of Christians see neither homosexuality, same-sex sex, nor same-sex marriage, as sinful.

I'm reluctant to talk to you about Wicca, since the mods may see that as "promoting a non-Nicene religion". Nevertheless, I will indulge any request you might have (despite your sarcastic tone).

brightmorningstar · Aug 18, 2008

To Wiccan_Child,

The problem, of course, is that you Christians do not agree with one another. As I said, the majority of Christians see neither homosexuality, same-sex sex, nor same-sex marriage, as sinful.

Wrong. The majority of Christians know homosexual practice is error and can quote some of the passages from the Bible that say so. That some disagree is true but they don’t believe the passages that condemn homosexual practice and they have no passages that countenance a same sex union of man as God’s creation purpose.
So its easy to tell which Christians are right.

I'm reluctant to talk to you about Wicca, since the mods may see that as "promoting a non-Nicene religion". Nevertheless, I will indulge any request you might have (despite your sarcastic tone).

Ok much appreciated, but remind me if I ask and you feel unable to respond for this reason.

KCKID · Aug 18, 2008

brightmorningstar said:
To EnemyPartyII
gay is having a same sex attraction, greed is having a selfsih desire, theft is wanting to take someone elses property, adultery is sexual attraction for a woman ourtside marriage, murder is killing life. The Bible says these things came about because of human disobedience at the fall in the garden of eden by knowing good and evil. God did not created murderers, adulterers, gays, theives and the greedy.

So, where did they come from ...a test tube? And what about you, brightmorningstar, did God create you flawless? If so, what 'vices' did you pick up along the way that resulted in YOUR becoming a sinner? At least ONE of your sins would surely be included in and on a par with those in the above list, would it not? Or are you righteous? Oh, that's right ...you've been made righteous through Jesus, haven't you? Why not then extend the same belief of grace to those on your list?

Because someone was disobedient and ate a fruit that was grown in the Garden of Eden and intentionally put 'off limits' to them by God every human being from then on had to pay the price. You know, the more I discuss these issues on the forum the more distant God seems to become.

brightmorningstar · Aug 18, 2008

To KCKID,

So, where did they come from ...a test tube?

Well if God created all things good, then good must have an alternative, which of course is bad.

And what about you, brightmorningstar, did God create you flawless?

Humanity disobeyed God and knew sin. Jesus NT teaching affirms this, no one is good, in Adam all die and all fall short of God’s glory. So this tells us all fall short. What about you do you consider you fall short?

Oh, that's right ...you've been made righteous through Jesus, haven't you?

Not quite, Jesus is my righteousness, I am not righteous so much as Jesus accepts my faith in Him as righteous. Do you want the scriptures?

Why not then extend the same belief of grace to those on your list?

Well its not my grace to do so, it’s the grace of Jesus Christ.

Because someone was disobedient and ate a fruit that was grown in the Garden of Eden and intentionally put 'off limits' to them by God every human being from then on had to pay the price. You know, the more I discuss these issues on the forum the more distant God seems to become.

Well the answer is yes, already a number of scriptures have been provided to show this, what about 1 Corinthians 15:22 to remind us. “For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.”

EnemyPartyII · Aug 18, 2008

Wrong. The majority of Christians know homosexual practice is error

sats who? Or are you the final arbiter of who is and isn;t a "True" Christian?

Polycarp_fan · Aug 18, 2008

EnemyPartyII said:
So... how come there are so many homosexual people?

How come there are so many Muslim people? How come there are so many other non Christians?

Christians come "out" of other cultures and belief systems. And some even come "out" of Bible-based religious systems.

No neologism needed to hide the facts.

Polycarp_fan · Aug 18, 2008

EnemyPartyII said:
sats who? Or are you the final arbiter of who is and isn;t a "True" Christian?

You may want to study the schism in the Anglican denomination (worldwide) for evidence of the proof of his statement.

brightmorningstar · Aug 18, 2008

To EnemyPartyII,

sats who? Or are you the final arbiter of who is and isn;t a "True" Christian?

All I pointed out was the majority of Christians know that homosexual practice is error, the Roman Catholic church, the biggest denomination just for starters for example, teaches that. It sounds like you want to pronounce some people not true Christians, interesting as you seem to hold the same point of view on this issue as a Wiccan. The test of who is following Christ is what Christs teaching is. I think I have laid out the case with adequate and ample scriptural citations and references.

Andreusz · Aug 18, 2008

brightmorningstar said:
To EnemyPartyII
gay is having a same sex attraction, greed is having a selfsih desire, theft is wanting to take someone elses property, adultery is sexual attraction for a woman ourtside marriage, murder is killing life. The Bible says these things came about because of human disobedience at the fall in the garden of eden by knowing good and evil. God did not created murderers, adulterers, gays, theives and the greedy.

I find your equating of gay people with murderers, adulterers, thieves and the greedy highly offensive. Can you give me one reason, NOT based on the Bible, for making this equation? Murderers, adulterers, and even greedy people harm others. Gay adults who have consensual sex harm no-one.

brightmorningstar · Aug 18, 2008

To Andreusz,

I find your equating of gay people with murderers, adulterers, thieves and the greedy highly offensive.

Firstly I don’t, you do. I equate homosexual offenders with adulterers, thieves, the greedy and murderers, and having committed adultery, sex before I was married, I include me in the comparison.
If you are offended then you are offended at the gospel, there is nothing I can do about it.

Can you give me one reason, NOT based on the Bible, for making this equation?

I don’t make it.

and Murderers, adulterers, and even greedy people harm others. Gay adults who have consensual sex harm no-one.

according to your values, but seek to follow Christ. In fact greedy people do harm others, if the developed world wasn’t so greedy there wouldn’t be the level of poverty in other parts of the world. So I don’t even agree with your generalisations.

brightmorningstar · Aug 18, 2008

There is no comdemnation for those in Christ Jesus. Jesus Christ came to save not codemn, but if He came to save He came to save us from something. There is an idea about that He has aved us from sin and so we can carry on doing it again now. clealry that is not only illogical but untrue.

Andreusz · Aug 18, 2008

brightmorningstar said:
To Andreusz,
Firstly I don’t, you do. I equate homosexual offenders with adulterers, thieves, the greedy and murderers, and having committed adultery, sex before I was married, I include me in the comparison.
If you are offended then you are offended at the gospel, there is nothing I can do about it.
I don’t make it.
according to your values, but seek to follow Christ. In fact greedy people do harm others, if the developed world wasn’t so greedy there wouldn’t be the level of poverty in other parts of the world. So I don’t even agree with your generalisations.

I find your post hard to follow. In your first sentence you say 'I don't', but in your next sentence you go on to say you do. Then a couple of sentences later you again say 'I don't make it'.
I don't think you read what I said about greed -- your comments here make no sense.

brightmorningstar · Aug 18, 2008

To Andreusz,
Well what you think is harmful is not Biblical based as I have shown from 1 Corinthians 6.

I don’t make it relates to giving non Biblical reasons.

Zecryphon · Aug 18, 2008

Andreusz said:
I find your post hard to follow. In your first sentence you say 'I don't', but in your next sentence you go on to say you do. Then a couple of sentences later you gain say 'I don't make it'.
I don't think you read what I said about greed -- your comments here make no sense.

Let's see if I can clear up the confusion. Andre you said:

I find your equating of gay people with murderers, adulterers, thieves and the greedy highly offensive.

To which BMS responded:

Firstly I don’t, you do. I equate homosexual offenders with adulterers, thieves, the greedy and murderers, and having committed adultery, sex before I was married, I include me in the comparison.

See the difference? You think BMS equates gay people with murderers adulterers and thieves, when in actuality he equates homosexual offenders, that would be those people who engage in homosexual sex, with murderers, adulterers and thieves. Also, as to his last sentence, he is correct when he said that "he doesn't make it", which I took to mean that he does not make the comparison between homosexual offenders and murderers, adulterers, thieves, etc. That comparison is made in the Bible, which BMS did not write. He is just reiterating what is written there. His post makes perfect sense as it is written.

brightmorningstar · Aug 18, 2008

Thank you Zecryphon for clarifying what I meant ,
Thats 100%. correct

Wiccan_Child · Aug 18, 2008

brightmorningstar said:
Wrong. The majority of Christians know homosexual practice is error and can quote some of the passages from the Bible that say so. That some disagree is true but they dont believe the passages that condemn homosexual practice and they have no passages that countenance a same sex union of man as Gods creation purpose.
So its easy to tell which Christians are right.

Not really. The story of Jonathan and David, for instance, is used by some as a Biblical instance of same-sex marriage (and the condonation thereof). Moreover, if is simply bad theology to condemn something merely because it's not explicitly condoned: do you condemn the use of automobiles because the Bible does not explicitly condone them? Of course not. Likewise, it is daft to condemn homosexuality, same-sex sex, and/or same-sex marriage simply because the Bible does not explicitly condone it: the onus, one would think, would be on your to cite explicit condemnation. As it happens, the only verses I've seen have been warped and mistranslated to give an anti-gay bias, despite this not being the author(s)' intent.

How Homophobic Are You?

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