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To Chalice_Thunder,
They havent, men and women have dne all the producing, gays and straights are just people with sexual attractions.
Not really, reproduction is by man and woman the sexual desires of the men and women is irrelevant as it would only determine whether they wanted to or not.
The fact is: there are men and women in the creation who are straight and those who are gay. We are all products of the reproductive process.
I'm wondering why you have this need to define other people - do you not know one can define themselves by any number of characteristics?
Certainly for those of us who are Christian, our identity is in Christ, and that is the most important thing. And then we can go on to include other descriptors: gay, partnered, musician, chef, etc.
Just because I could use those terms for myself does not mean any loss of identity in Christ.
Then you contradict yourself. Let us recap:
Yes thats right.
You asked for a source so I gave one.
kin selection is not relevant. If a defect that causes non reproductive coupling at 5 % continues to be passed on by the 95% reproductive population there is no evolution.
Homosexuality isnt scientifically proven so how can it have done anything.
Here, here, here, and here. I also found this article you may be interested in.Source please?
Well if you are going to ask me for sources and I provide them, you are going to have to provide your sources please otherwise I am going to treat your point as unsubstantiated and suspect.
yes sure indeed.
But nether the human species, nor any other organism, are classified by their sexual attraction but by there sex.
Indeed. Homosexuality and heterosexuality refer to an individuals sexual orientation.yes thats right and heterosexuals cant reproduce between then if they are of the same sex. So this should tell you that the terms homosexual and heterosexual are useless in describing the basic biology of male and female reproduction which is necessary for life to continue and even the theory of evolution.
Well if they cant naturally why would you want unnaturally?
Such as?Medical science is not progressing its becoming perverted to the unnatural in this respect. as I said we have science based in the whims of sexual desires.
then the argument is irrelevent.
Because two people of the same sex cant naturally produce a child. There are no same-sex parents as they cant produce children.
I see nothing in that report that undermines what I am saying, nor bolsters what you are saying. What evidence do you have that male-male and female-female parental units are any worse than their male-female counterparts?What is being called same-sex parents is abnormal and error for this basic reason. The evidence such as reports like Breakdown Britain last year show this.
No. same-sex couples cant reproduce whether they are willing or unwilling.
Pot? Meet the kettle.You keep throwing in comments which are irrelevant.
You're not doing a very good job. Someone is deemed 'straight' if they are attracted to members of the opposite sex. Someone is deemed 'gay' if they are attracted to members of the same sex. That's all there is to it. It's a way of categorising people according to a particular trait, much like we categorise people as blonde, brunette, red-head, etc.Yes I am anti-straight and anti gay as reproduction depends on a man and a woman, gay and straight is irrelevant and perverted thinking. What I am doing is explaining why.
Then, once again, you make no sense:Well for everyone.
Yes agreed you are right here, people dont necessarily choose to have homosexual attraction just like they dont choose to be tempted in any other way.
Not quite like that as the issue is not the helping, but the natural coupling of male and female. Also no not like that because a heterosexual couples could be two men who cant reproduce between them even with IVF. The problem is you keep using the words heterosexual/homosexual and gay/straight when it comes to reproduction and these words are useless as one has to assume you are referring to the actual sex of the people rather than their sexual attractions.
The "fact" is, that once you "are" homosexual, you have been taken out of any further reproductive process.
Yes, they do.Good, bad, holiness and evil, define characteristics too.
And those of us who are Christians that hold to the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles on a proper partnered union for a marriage? What about that?
Jesus taught that not everyone that calls themself a believer in Him are a believer in Him. We are to test all things, say Hid Apostles. Anyone bringing a different Gospel, are to be rejected.
In the Gospel, marriage is a man and a woman. Are those of us Christians that follow the teachings of Christ Jesus and the Apostles, are we doing anything "wrong?"
The fact is there arent, the idea of gay and straight is a human concept not a godly one.The fact is: there are men and women in the creation who are straight and those who are gay. We are all products of the reproductive process.
Biology defines male and female, I wonder why you pick on me defining people the same?I'm wondering why you have this need to define other people - do you not know one can define themselves by any number of characteristics?
If ones identity is in Christ then it needs to be in line with His commands and teaching such as Jesus explains in John 14-15. If we obey His teaching He will be in us and we in HimCertainly for those of us who are Christian, our identity is in Christ, and that is the most important thing. And then we can go on to include other descriptors: gay, partnered, musician, chef, etc. Just because I could use those terms for myself does not mean any loss of identity in Christ
You seem to be mistaking what you wish most people in the world think for what most people in the world ACTUALLY think.Most people in the world know that the Bible clearly maintains man/woman union is the creation purpose and homosexual unions are error, so I think your comments are wishful thinking and in denial.
I am defined by more than my sexuality. However, in the context of discussing our sexualities, mine is homosexual. Yours is heterosexual. Our religious affiliation has nothing to do with this.then your identity is in your sexual desires, mine is in Christ. Therefore you are entitled to follow your sexual desires and live out your identity, just as I am entitled to seek to follow Jesus Christ and His teaching.
Wow. Well, I bet your spouse is happy about this.I am not a heterosexual, I dont have opposite sex attraction per se, as I am married. I dont do heterosexual or homosexual identity or classification as the terms cut across and confuse Gods purposes.
To Chalice_Thunder
The fact is there arent, the idea of gay and straight is a human concept not a godly one.
Biology defines male and female, I wonder why you pick on me defining people the same?
If ones identity is in Christ then it needs to be in line with His commands and teaching such as Jesus explains in John 14-15. If we obey His teaching He will be in us and we in Him
So the Romans passage also applies, indeed as Polycarp fan implies, Jesus says some will say Lord Lord but He wont know them. The scripture their lips praise but their hearts are far. Now I am not suggesting anyone in mind, all I am saying is a blanket claim is not necessarily so, we have to see the fruit. However obviously of the fruit is wilful promoting of same-sex one is already outside what Christs NT teaching says on this matter
Well, I know several homosexuals who would disagree with you here. They are married with children, and even though they are gay, they are staying in their marriages. So much for your reproductive process argument.
I would say that God blesses your marriage as much as He has mine.
Not so. Paul, in Romans, says this:
"...because if you confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For one believes with the heart and so is justified, and one confesses with the mouth and so is saved. The scripture says, "No one who believes in him will be put to shame." For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; the same Lord is Lord of all and is generous to all who call on him. For, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved."
Originally Posted by Polycarp_fan
Jesus taught that not everyone that calls themself a believer in Him are a believer in Him. We are to test all things, say His Apostles. Anyone bringing a different Gospel, are to be rejected.
"Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravaging wolves. You'll recognize them by their fruit. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes or figs from thistles? In the same way, every good tree produces good fruit, but a bad tree produces bad fruit. A good tree can't produce bad fruit; neither can a bad tree produce good fruit. Every tree that doesn't produce good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So you'll recognize them by their fruit.
"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord!' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but [only] the one who does the will of My Father in heaven. On that day many will say to Me, 'Lord, Lord, didn't we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name? ' Then I will announce to them, 'I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!
" . . .they not only do them, but even applaud others who practice them.
The Two Foundations
24 "Therefore, everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them will be like a sensible man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain fell, the rivers rose, and the winds blew and pounded that house. Yet it didn't collapse, because its foundation was on the rock. 26 But everyone who hears these words of Mine and doesn't act on them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. 27 The rain fell, the rivers rose, the winds blew and pounded that house, and it collapsed. And its collapse was great!"
Did anyone say you were doing something wrong? (except for unrighteous judgment you are casting about like so much bird seed...that is not Gospel in any way)
To beget children one most be "not" homosexual. It's a science thing. (The first sentence had to be worded the way it was.)
"Anyone," and everyone. You won;t see me disagreeing with scripture.
If there is one thing consistent in gay religiosity and secular gay culture, it is definately encouraging others to engage in the sin of gay sex. If I am wrong, please point me to anyone in the gay community "preaching" against gay sex.
Let me ask you a question or two. How does a person that desires gay sex and engages in gay sex, find comfort in a Church that affirms the Bible?
I'm NOT talking about liberal and progressive religious organizations, as they clearly edit out of the Bible whatever dissents of humanism, I am talking about places where millions and millions and millions of Christians call their Chruch that preach that "homosexuality" is innapropriate AND a sin?
You could have rather said (to a less awkward grammatical effect) "one must be heterosexual" but I digress. At any rate, your argument is invalid. Sexual orientation is not necessary to perform sexual intercourse and beget children - functional genitalia and fertile sperm/eggs are sufficient.
There are numerous instances of closet homosexuals, who, while believing in the public misconception that homosexuality is a social choice, marry and have children. One of my close friends is one such example.
Please show me where in scripture does it say that having a homosexual orientation is a sin.
Several of my college friends are homosexual - and devout Catholics.
They follow the teachings of the Catholic church and strongly believe that homosexuals are called to a life of celibacy - a teaching of the Catholic Church. They also believe homosexual acts are grave sins - also a teaching of the Catholic Church. Please stop with the stereotyping unless you can back up your statements.
Desiring gay sex and engaging in gay sex are two different things.
One can lead to the other, but it is not a necessity. Just as a person need not engage in heterosexual sex to be identified as a heterosexual, so neither does a homosexual need to engage in gay sex to be seen as such.
Humanism? What does humanism have to do with our discussion?
Exactly how do you define "homosexuality"?
Maybe you read the scoring system wrong? I had that same issue when i went back and looked over my questions.There scoring is strange.
if you select Strongly agree to 20. Homosexual behavior should not be against the law then it raises your score, but if you don't agree, (State that it should be against the law) then that lowers your score.
Because that particular Christian is gay, lesbian, and/or bisexual?First: Why would ANY Christian want to call themself Gay, Lesbian, or Bi-Sexual?
First: Why would ANY Christian want to call themself Gay, Lesbian, or Bi-Sexual?
OK, on to response.
Gentalia, sperm and ovum denote normality and literaly define the term "sexual orientation." If you have normally formed genitalia that produce sperm, you are a man. If you ovulate, you are a woman.
Contemplate the words you are writing. "Closted homosexual," is a neologism that is literally meaningless except for driving a wierd agenda.
It is a mental choice to engage in any kind of sex act, and of course we could get graphic about body functions that define normality and literally "point" to sexual orientation. What goes up, er, is to be used the way natural law has defined it.
So? It could be argued that, because this particular Christian is ultimately blonde, it is relevant to God's creation. Moreover, one's hair colour is as arbitrary as one's sexual orientation; either they are both relevant, or neither are.If a Christian calls themsleves blonde, its a puzzle as Jesus never taught anything about being blonde being relevent to God's creation or purposes.
What oxymoron? "Gay" is a single word. Moreover, your claim that "homosexual practice as a sin" is not held by the majority of Christians, nor by the majority of scholars: the original texts used to compose the Bible do not condemn homosexuality.However gay is same-sex attraction which, with homosexual practice as a sin, is not only not relevant, but alomost implying an oxymoron.
Homosexual orientation is not "in" the Bible.
On sexual behavior "in the Bible" there are only people doing the right kind of sex and the ones doing the wrong kind of sex.
The Bible is well known for its view that same-gender sex acts are the wrong kind of sexual acts. "Sexual orientation" is a modern day neologism to describe how homosexuals feel about themselves.
Not according to Catholic doctrine.
Why would they desire to be in the Catholic Church if they like gay sex?
There are some other religious organizations that support that kinf of thing. Why the need to be in a Church that desires them to stop doing what they want to sexually? It just doesn't seem honest or respectful to Christians that will not affirm gay sex, for gays to force their sexual tastes on them.
A sin repented of is no where to be found. "It" no longer exists. I am very familiar with "not" doing things you need to repent of AND DOING things you need to repent of. Once you repent (and as the case with "even" the Catholic Church) and are forgiven you no longer are your former sinful self. You go on from there. If God will not hold forgiven sins to account (literally) why would anybody else?
Uh yes. OK. If you are desiring to bring "no gay sex" into the Church, then you will be greeted as a Christian.
You are talking about judging a person. What Christian can do that? You don;t judge a person for their mindset.
You can though, test them and their behaviors and actiions within the Church and/or outside of the Church, "IF," the call themsleves a Christian AND a member of your Church body.
Actually EVERYTHING!!!!!!!! It is from the Humanist Manifesto
and other related works of Humanists, and the belifes and social demands of humanists that homosexuals were given their greatest support and power.
What we see today sprang from the Humanist movement into our "education" system decades ago. Please, please, test me on that.
It also will have nothing to do with, or in Christianty, as Christian life and culture is explained by the Apostles, in gaining its power through gay activism. The Gay Agenda is antithetical to Christian truth. That is why you see the animosity between gays and Christians. Literally, schism is but one fruit of gay activism.
Part of the sodomy condition. That is the way "it" is taught in scripture. You see Sodom and Gomorrah almost exclusively mentioned along with sexual sin.
It is the call of every Christian NOT to encorage others to sin. Sodomy is the engagement of sin and the encouraging of others TO sin.
Inhospitality and lasciviousness licentiousness go hand in hand.
Why would ANY Christian want to call themself Gay, Lesbian, or Bi-Sexual?
Please answer that.
If a Christian calls themsleves blonde, its a puzzle as Jesus never taught anything about being blonde being relevent to God's creation or purposes. However gay is same-sex attraction which, with homosexual practice as a sin, is not only not relevant, but alomost implying an oxymoron.
To beget children one most be "not" homosexual. It's a science thing. (The first sentence had to be worded the way it was.)
If you are saying you are married to someone of the same gender, there is no such thing in the "Christian" church per the Apostolic witness. Whatever they do in the MCC is strictly a new religiosity.
Care to translate your words into comprehensive English?"Anyone," and everyone. You won;t see me disagreeing with scripture.
But the "not so?"
If there is one thing consistent in gay religiosity and secular gay culture, it is definately encouraging others to engage in the sin of gay sex. If I am wrong, please point me to anyone in the gay community "preaching" against gay sex.
You're joking right?
Let me ask you a question or two. How does a person that desires gay sex and engages in gay sex, find comfort in a Church that affirms the Bible?
What do you hope to accomplish by pushing the gay agenda into and onto Christians that have multiple reasons to oppose gay culture?
You would first have to prove that I was promoting a gay sex agenda in the Church. And guess what? You can't. In fact, please feel free to search and find where I have done so. What about gay sex is so enticing to you???Do you really think that promoting gay sex (male and female) in a Church is going to fly?
Where do you get the religious authority to teach people in the Church that gay sex and gay culture is acceptable?
Then you don’t really understand what Christianity is or have a clue what the majority of Christians believe. I suggest you stick to telling us about Wicca and let the Christians tell you about Christianity.What oxymoron? "Gay" is a single word. Moreover, your claim that "homosexual practice as a sin" is not held by the majority of Christians, nor by the majority of scholars: the original texts used to compose the Bible do not condemn homosexuality.
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