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How far is too far? (wait, there's a twist!)

stonehands

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I would have liked to read this back in High School. Makes some great points, especially #5 Reminds you to be faithful to your Husband/Wife even before you meet them. I coulda used that one
 
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Sam the Record Man

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I don't and have never understood the logic between questions 1 and 7. I would word it "what things would you not be comfortable having your parents/grandparents know that you do?" Because there is a certain level of manners and politeness that one must maintain. Just as I would never belch in front of my grandparents, but that does not mean that it is wrong for me to belch (at least i hope its not).

question 2 I don't really like either. If you fully think about that all the time, then realistically what would make you any different than any of her male friends?? If the answer is nothing, there certainly is problem. Same for question 5. I wouldn't want my wife/girlfriend going on dates, or nice long walks while holding hands with other guys. Does that mean that it is wrong for us to do those things??

Question 10, firstly, yes i would. But thats because of me and my non-chalant view towards hygene and my impenetrable immune system. But couldn't you say the same thing about falling in love??

Just my thoughts on some of those questions. Some of them are really good, some i dont like so much.

question 4, who determines what the best is?? What makes someone who has never kissed better than someone who has??
 
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I was reading in this thread, and some were saying that they didn't understand why it was said by someone else that an engaged couple should spend less alone time together than a dating couple.

When you're engaged, and you're presented with the temptation to have sex, it's a lot easier to just say "well we're getting married anyway, so why wait till the wedding night?"

When a couple is just dating, they're not for sure getting married, so it's not as easy to use that as an excuse.

I agree with whoever said that its' better for engaged couples to spend less alone time than when they were just dating.
 
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Amanda-Soo

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I second most of that!!! Question 1 is just crazy. I don't think I could even kiss my boyfriend on the cheek in front of my parents! I do however like question 3. There are a lot of things I want to save for my future husband. As for question 6, I feel that I already have a line drawn where I stop...and I have no problem stopping. Oh, and for question number 10 it would have to depend on who took a bite out of the cookie.
 
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Choir Boy Martin

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i think it all depends on if you think sex before marriage is ok or not; personally i think that it. read this article, it certainly helped clear my mind up about it:

<B>
Four Questions​
</B>
Please answer the following four questions before proceeding:
If a married man has sex with a married woman (other than ones own wife), is it adultery?
If a married man has sex with an unmarried women, is it adultery?
If an unmarried man has sex with a married woman, is it adultery?
If an unmarried man has sex with an unmarried woman, is it adultery?
Most people would answer the first three questions with a "yes," and the last question with a "no." Well, if we were to use "the world's" definition of adultery, those answers would be absolutely correct. However, the definition of adultery in secular dictionaries, including law dictionaries, is contrary to God's definition of adultery as defined in scripture. If you answered these four questions correctly, there should be two "yes's" and two "no's." The way you define "adultery" will determine how you interpret<B> Matthew 5:27-28.

What is Adultery?​
</B>
Let me ask you a question at this point. Please read God's seventh commandment, "Thou shalt not commit adultery" (Exodus 20:14, Deuteronomy 5:18). What was God referring to? Does He not refer to the sanctity of marriage? Yes, He does. As defined by God, and as will be shown by scripture, Adultery means "sex between a married woman and a man who was not her husband." Or, in other words, adultery means "sex between a man and a married woman." Adultery is of two kinds;
Double, when between a married man and a married woman;
Single, between an unmarried man and a married woman (Leviticus 20:10, Deuteronomy 22:22).
Adultery was punishable by death, and is distinguished from fornication (Exodus 22:16, Deuteronomy 22:28-29). Adultery never involves an unmarried woman. Never. Only a married woman, only a wife (Ezekiel 16:32). Now, let us look more closely at God's 7th and 10th Commandments.
7th Commandment: "Thou shalt not commit adultery." (Exodus 20:14).
10th Commandment: "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife." (Exodus 20:17).
In other words, this 10th Commandment says that whosoever "covets, desires, or lusts" after a married woman, has committed adultery with her already in ones heart!!! Why? Because one has broken the 7th Commandment already in one's heart! This is the spiritual meaning of adultery, and this is exactly what Jesus meant when he spoke in Matthew 5:27-28.
Matthew 5:27-28, "Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart."​
Was Jesus teaching something new? No, Jesus was not teaching something new. Just as in all the other examples given in Matthew 5 above, Jesus was teaching directly from the Old Testament. The spiritual meanings of the Old Testament laws are also found in the Old Testament itself.

Let me ask you another question. When Jesus was teaching about "adultery" in Matthew 5:27, "...Thou shalt not commit adultery", was not Jesus also referring to the 7th Commandment and the sanctity of marriage? And when Jesus was teaching about "lusting" after a woman in Matthew 5:28, was not Jesus also referring to the 10th Commandment? Yes, he was.

In God's 7th and 10th Commandments, God refers to the sexual relationship of adultery only. In Matthew 5:27-28, Jesus, referring
directly to the Ten Commandments, also refers to adultery only. Jesus was not re-defining the term adultery to mean sexual relationships outside the marriage state.

If having sex with an unmarried woman is grouped in the same category as those who commit adultery, then this fact should be taught in the Old Testament as well. Otherwise, Jesus would be teaching something completely new and foreign to his listeners.


If Jesus was lumping both married and unmarried women into the same category, that means he changed the penalty of committing sexual acts with these women. As will be shown later in this article, the penalty of adultery was death for both the man and woman. But there was no penalty if an unmarried man and unmarried woman had sex together. The consequences were not death for both…it was marriage for both! And Jesus would be changing the consequences that God laid down in His law, by replacing the marriage that God ordained with the penalty of death; a penalty that God never gave to unmarried men and women if they had sex together. (Some may claim marriage is death...but that's a different topic).


<B>
Adultery involves the Marriage State​
</B>
Matthew 5:28, "But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart."​
Now, let's take the first part of this verse, "…whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her…" (meaning the intent of looking at her is because you desire her, whether it's sexually or not). Dear reader, is it a sin to lust after all women? Would you include your own wife? No, of course not. But some people would say that lusting after your wife is a sin in certain situations. This will be addressed in the next two paragraph. For now, let's say that it is definitely a sin to lust after some women. So let us continue with this verse to see which women, "…hath committed adultery…"

Now, whoever this "woman" is that Jesus is referring to, she is only the type of woman who may cause adultery. Will your wife cause you to commit adultery if you have sex with her? Obviously not. So, in this specific verse, Jesus could not possibly be referring to ones own wife; he was not teaching that it could be a sin to lust after your own wife. Even if it can be a sin to lust after her in certain situations, this specific verse has nothing to do with that because this passage is dealing with cases of adultery, of which can never happen between a husband and his wife.

Now, some claim that if a married co
uple has sex for purposes other than to bear children, then they would be defiled. Even though one of the reasons for having sex with your wife is to have children, it is not the only reason. And if it is wrong to have sex with her other than for the purpose of having children, it would contradict Hebrews 13:4, "Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled," which states that having sex in marriage is not defiling. Hebrews 13:4 does not say the bed is undefiled only in situations where the couple is making children in bed.

Now, in order to understand which women may cause which men to commit adultery in their heart, we must first establish which women may cause a man to commit adultery in the flesh. If a woman cannot cause you to commit adultery in the flesh (such as your own wife), then that woman certainly cannot cause you to commit adultery in your heart!

Once we establish which women and which men may cause someone to commit adultery, then we will know more clearly the truth of what Jesus was saying.

Here are the answers to the four questions asked earlier:
If a married man has sex with a married woman (other than ones own wife), is it adultery?
Yes, they were put to death (Leviticus 20:10, Deuteronomy 22:22-24).
If a married man has sex with an unmarried women, is it adultery?
No, she became his wife (Genesis 4:19; 29:23-30; 31:17; 32:22; 36:2,6, Exodus 21:10, Deuteronomy 21:15-17; 25:5-10, Judges 8:30, 1 Samuel 1:2; 25:42-43; 30:18, 2 Samuel 5:13, 1 Kings 11:1-3, 1 Chronicles 4:5; 8:8; 14:3, 2 Chronicles 11:21; 12:7-8; 13:21; 24:3, Daniel 5:2-3).
If an unmarried man has sex with a married woman, is it adultery?
Yes, they were put to death (Leviticus 20:10, Deuteronomy 22:22-24).
If an unmarried man has sex with an unmarried woman, is it adultery?
No, they were commanded to marry each other (Exodus 22:16-17, Deuteronomy 22:28).
As we can see from the above, both married men and unmarried men can commit adultery. Therefore, the "man" referred to in Matthew 5:28 definitely refers to both married men and unmarried men. But what about the woman?

According to scripture, if any man has sex with an unmarried woman, it was not considered adultery! God sentenced married men to death, married women to death, unmarried men to death, but never does He sentence unmarried women to death for adultery. Adultery can only take place when the woman is married.

Therefore, if an unmarried woman cannot possibly cause a man to commit adultery in the flesh, she cannot possibly cause him to commit adultery in his heart. Or, in other words, if it is not adultery to have sex with an unmarried woman, it cannot possibly be adultery to think about having sex with an unmarried woman.

Now, the following objection might be raised at this point. "But it is fornication to have sex with an unmarried woman, therefore this verse applies to unmarried women as well." It is true that unmarried women can commit fornication, but we must consider the sexual sin that Jesus describes in Matthew 5:27-28. Jesus was very careful to use the word "adultery," which can only refer to married women, and not "fornication," which applies to unmarried women. Thus, Jesus limits this lust to only cases where adultery happens, which only applies to married women, not unmarried women.

In Matthew 5:28, Jesus used the word "adultery," not "fornication." These are two different sexual acts, from two different Greek words, with two different definitions. If an unmarried man and unmarried woman have sex, it is never, ever called adultery in scripture. It simply does not have that meaning. The correct term to use is fornication. Let's look at three different bible dictionaries for verification:
Bible Dictionaries::
Fornication: This word is used in Scripture not only for the sin of impurity between unmarried persons, but for idolatry, and for all kinds of infidelity to God. (American Tract Society Dictionary).
Adultery: Is a criminal connection between persons who are engaged, one or both, to keep themselves wholly to others; and thus it exceeds the guilt of fornication, which is the same intercourse between unmarried persons. Illicit intercourse between a married man and a woman who was not married, nor betrothed, constituted not adultery, but fornication. Fornication may be, in some sense, covered by a subsequent marriage of the parties; but adultery cannot be so healed. (American Tract Society Dictionary).
Adultery: The parties to this crime, according to Jewish law, were a married woman and a man who was not her husband . (Smith's bible dictionary).
Adultery: Conjugal infidelity. An adulterer was a man who had illicit intercourse with a married or a betrothed woman, and such a woman was an adulteress. Intercourse between a married man and an unmarried woman was fornication. (Easton's 1897 bible dictionary).

I think that this is another example of the world changing God's word for their own devices; now it is considered wrong in society for a married man to sleep with an unmarried woman because of marriage vows saying that you will be faithful to only your wife. These marriage vows are a new invention (in the past 4-500 years) and are not completely based upon God's word, as i have just demonstrated. This would also explain how there was nothing wrong with people back in Jesus' time having many wives or having mistresses in a harem to sleep with.
 
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faithfulwarrior

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To be honest, I think ANY kind of sex before marriage or petting the genital areas is wrong.
With everything else, really it's up to the couple and how strong willed they are. One could passionately kiss their partner without wanting to go any further, making it fine. Another couple could do the same thing but it could lead to them wanting more, making it unwise. See my logic? The most innocent thing for someone can be a struggle to contain urges for someone else. It all comes down to SELF CONTROL and submission to the Lord.
And, with those questions? A lot of them, as some of you pointed out, are ridiculous.. You wouldn't want your partner going around and kissing or holding hands with someone else, but does that necessarily make it wrong for you? No way! Some of the questions raised valid and true points, but a lot of them were going a little too far.. One would not want to kiss their partner infront of their grandparents because, as the article said, some things are best done privately, plus it would probably embarrass them anyway. As I've said, a kiss can be innocent and a good thing to a relationship, but it can be sinful too if you are thinking of sexual things and wanting more whilst kissing. It all comes down to you.
 
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