Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
Someone would have to show me how Boniface's Unam Sanctum was not intended to be a definitive papal pronouncement.Can someone provide the list of infallible statements please?
Someone would have to show me how Boniface's Unam Sanctum was not intended to be a definitive papal pronouncement.
However, this theological ground becomes contradictory in cases where the Early Church clearly judged the dogmatic statements of Popes and judged Popes for heresy. It seems to be the case that the Early Church didn't hold to the doctrinal ground that the Pope can't be judged being the "sole" "Successor of Peter."
Yep. That's the way I see it. I will withhold my opinion of his exegesis and doctrine, out of respect for this venue.This would be one of the clearest examples of papal infallibility before 1850
The Pope was clearly defining doctrine
This would be one of the clearest examples of papal infallibility before 1850
The Pope was clearly defining doctrine
Yes - that's what makes it so problematic. He clearly would be eliminating the Orthodox at this time in history with his statement, which I would say is clearly wrong.
Why is it “clearly wrong”?
I think “No Salvation Outside The Church” has been used as condemnation of schismatics for centuries, has been supported by several Church Councils, including the Council of Florence
Unam Sanctam - The bull ends, "Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff."
The Eastern Orthodox were not subject to the Roman Pontiff. They have valid priesthood, sacraments, Apostolic Succession, etc. - there is no way they were all doomed as the Bull states.
I agree that Bull is an official Papal teaching - but it's also not true - which proves infallibility of the pope on his own is false.
Wow - I'll steer clear of that judgement.
If we are to simply follow the teaching of Jesus and the Apostles that is preserved - not expanded on and added to - I'm not so sure the Rome is ahead of the East.
Both East and West have developed theology over the years, while the east has moves slower in some regards it is not free of innovation
At the same time, I do see most recent innovations in the West as serious mistakes and we could learn a lot from the East
Prayers that the Schism is soon healed
Christ gave Peter the three fold command of “feed My sheep”
Not “feed my sheep in the diocese of Rome” or “feed My sheep in the West”
No, it was “feed My sheep”
So while the Eastern Schismatics have retained Apostolic succession, unless they repent and become united with the Church they will not have eternal life
This is a hard teaching, but there is One Faith, One Baptism, One Church
If you truly believe the Holy Spirit is guiding your Church, you need nothing from the Eastern Orthodox.
Wow, you are seriously going to sink to the levels of Sola Scriptura “disprove a negative” argumentation?
Where in the Bible does it say we should pray to the Saints? Where in the Bible does it say priests should be celibate?
The truth is, you ignore the fact that in Matthew 18:18, all the Apostles are given the power of binding and loosing. Even Saint John Chrysostom brings this up when he says that Saint John the Apostle also has the keys. Peter was a shepherd, but you have yet to prove to me in a positive manner of Scripture (saying what is there, not what isn’t there) that Peter was made a King over all the Apostles, and that all the Apostles weren’t all Shepherds of the Christ’s sheep.
There are some Catholic practices, such as a respect for tradition and a deep sense of solemnity in celebrating the Litugy, which are now more common in the Eastern Orthodox Church then they are in the Catholic Church.
So it is not learning something new, but rather a reminder of practices that have been forgotten
We can look through history at high points and low points for both the Catholic and Orthodox churches
Using the Holy Bible to enlighten the mind and soul is not the same as Sola Scripture
I never said Peter was a “King over the other Apostles” and asking me to cut and paste a verse that directly defines Petrine Supremacy is playing into Sola Scripture far more then any argument I have posted, instead I ask you to read scripture with the mind of the Church, slowly and prayerfully, you will see the special role given to St. Peter
“Rome has spoken, the matter is finished” was not a quote from some decedent Borgia Pope, but rather St Augustine, so many say we need to go back to the first millennium, St Augustine died in AD 430
Saint Augustine never said that. The origin of this false quote comes from Sermon 131:10, where he says “Already two councils have sent to the Apostolic See concerning this matter, and reactions have come from hence. The case is concluded; would that error soon cease...”
The African Church and Roman Church have condemned Pelagius, the case is closed.
Pope Zosimus actually later restores Pelagius, and then Saint Augustine and the African Church held a synod condemning him.
A quote you ought to quote is Saint Augustine’s opinion that you can appeal a judgment of Rome to a General Council.
From Epistle 43:
“Supposing those bishops who judged at Rome were not good judges, there remained a plenary Council of the Universal Church where the cause could be sifted with the judges themselves, so that if they were convicted of judging wrongly their sentence could be annulled.”
Lol I deny that, many of the Eastern Orthodox say that Westerners can not truly understand the ways of their Church from the outside, I think in a similar way we do not see all the subtle dysfunctions and innovations from the East, unfortunately I am not nearly educated enough to enumerate on them.Yes - I think there is no denying that Orthodoxy has preserved the original faith better than Rome.
Yes the innovations of the last 50 years have been unfortunate, we do not have to look East, when looking back less then a century clears these issues upI was shocked after entering the RCC at the Charismatic nonsense that is not just allowed, but promoted.
And a liturgy over run by lay folks and women.
Are you also disdainful of the mandatory celibacy of the Bishops in the Eastern churches?And clergy so out of touch they can't clean their own house or preach well (partly due to mandatory celibacy and the disconnection it introduces into people if it is mandated for all).
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?