How do you know for sure that someone believes a god exists?

talquin · Mar 25, 2015

Many people make the claim that a god exists. But how can we be sure they really do believe a god exists? Perhaps they are putting on a facade. Perhaps they have been duped or indoctrinated such that their belief isn't truly voluntary.

keith99 · Mar 25, 2015

You don't.

bhsmte · Mar 25, 2015

talquin said:
Many people make the claim that a god exists. But how can we be sure they really do believe a god exists? Perhaps they are putting on a facade. Perhaps they have been duped or indoctrinated such that their belief isn't truly voluntary.

Complex question, which IMO, is deeply rooted in our psyche, which can be difficult to peel back the layers on.

Albion · Mar 25, 2015

talquin said:
Many people make the claim that a god exists. But how can we be sure they really do believe a god exists? Perhaps they are putting on a facade. Perhaps they have been duped or indoctrinated such that their belief isn't truly voluntary.

How can you be "duped" into pretending to believe in something?

ananda · Mar 25, 2015

How do you define "god"?

bhsmte · Mar 25, 2015

ananda said:
How do you define "god"?

Not sure that matters much. The OP stated; "a God", not this particular God.

ananda · Mar 25, 2015

bhsmte said:
Not sure that matters much. The OP stated; "a God", not this particular God.

Then I know god exists, because every individual person is a god (conscious creator that can manipulate quantum realities).

bhsmte · Mar 25, 2015

Albion said:
How can you be "duped" into pretending to believe in something?

Peer and social pressures of the society and culture you live in.

There is no question in my mind, that there are people in the United States, that claim to believe in God, when they really have serious doubts. They do so and they likely even attend church at times, to be accepted into their communities and not be considered outcast, like atheists tend to be in the United States.

bhsmte · Mar 25, 2015

ananda said:
Then I know god exists, because every individual person is a god (conscious creator that can manipulate quantum realities).

Cool.

Albion · Mar 25, 2015

bhsmte said:
Peer and social pressures of the society and culture you live in.

Peer and social pressures fool you into pretending that you believe in God. That really doesn't compute.

There is no question in my mind, that there are people in the United States, that claim to believe in God, when they really have serious doubts.

OK, but they're not being duped into anything. As you explain it, they've supposedly decided to pretend to believe in God for some reason or other.

Yes, I suppose there are some people like that, but so what?

bhsmte · Mar 25, 2015

Albion said:
Peer and social pressures fool you into pretending that you believe in God. That really doesn't compute.

I was not referring to being "fooled" I was referring to "pretending" to hold a certain belief.

Yes, I suppose there are some people like that, but so what?

Well, the OP asks how do you tell whether someone for sure knows a God exists, I thought my responses so far directly related to that question.

ananda · Mar 25, 2015

IMO since Jesus, Buddha, and modern quantum science all point to the idea that individuals possess abilities to attain control of various higher conscious states to manipulate reality, and, it is in these states that god-like powers are achieved. So, it stands to reason that some individuals possess greater "miraculous" powers than others (individuals can train to achieve these higher conscious states and greater powers).

Therefore, it stands to reason that there are higher gods and lower gods, just like Buddhism teaches.

Albion · Mar 25, 2015

bhsmte said:
I was not referring to being "fooled" I was referring to "pretending" to hold a certain belief.

All right. What happened was that you answered for talquin. He had said in the OP that perhaps there are people who are "duped" into pretending to believe in God. That doesn't make sense. You could be duped into believing in God, and you could pretend to believe in God. I don't see how it's possible to be duped into pretending...or if it's technically possible, it can't happen but once in a blue moon.

talquin · Mar 25, 2015

Albion said:
All right. What happened was that you answered for talquin. He had said in the OP that perhaps there are people who are "duped" into pretending to believe in God. That doesn't make sense. You could be duped into believing in God, and you could pretend to believe in God. I don't see how it's possible to be duped into pretending...or if it's technically possible, it can't happen but once in a blue moon.

Please read the OP again:

Many people make the claim that a god exists. But how can we be sure they really do believe a god exists? Perhaps they are putting on a facade. Perhaps they have been duped or indoctrinated such that their belief isn't truly voluntary.

Albion · Mar 25, 2015

talquin said:
Please read the OP again:

Many people make the claim that a god exists. But how can we be sure they really do believe a god exists? Perhaps they are putting on a facade. Perhaps they have been duped or indoctrinated such that their belief isn't truly voluntary.

Yes, I understood it. You could always change it or clarify your real intent, of course.

Percivale · Mar 25, 2015

Is any belief ever truly voluntary? If so, I'm sure it's rare and not relevant to the main question here.
I'm sure a number of people pretend to believe in God to fit in with their social group better, and that they may not always be fully conscious of doing so. In Soviet Russia no doubt the same thing happened in reverse, people pretending not to believe in God when they really did.

True Scotsman · Mar 25, 2015

talquin said:
Many people make the claim that a god exists. But how can we be sure they really do believe a god exists? Perhaps they are putting on a facade. Perhaps they have been duped or indoctrinated such that their belief isn't truly voluntary.

You just have to take it on faith.

True Scotsman · Mar 25, 2015

True Scotsman said:
You just have to take it on faith.

Actually, I take that back. You could have objective evidence of someones belief. If for instance, someone is willing to die rather than renounce their belief that is pretty strong evidence that they really believe. Of course they could be delusional but it still is evidence that they believe. The fact that someone is willing to die for a belief doesn't make the belief true, just that they believe it. The heaven's gate cult members were willing to die for their belief. Terrorists are willing to die for theirs. In most cases though, you'd just have to take it on faith.

bhsmte · Mar 25, 2015

Is it just me, or did a post or two disappear from this thread?

TillICollapse · Mar 25, 2015

True Scotsman said:
Actually, I take that back. You could have objective evidence of someones belief. If for instance, someone is willing to die rather than renounce their belief that is pretty strong evidence that they really believe. Of course they could be delusional but it still is evidence that they believe. The fact that someone is willing to die for a belief doesn't make the belief true, just that they believe it. The heaven's gate cult members were willing to die for their belief. Terrorists are willing to die for theirs. In most cases though, you'd just have to take it on faith.

I would agree with something along those lines: a person's actions, choices, words and language, can be supporting evidence to back their claim concerning a belief, or lack of belief for that matter. However definitively PROVING they actually "had the belief", or didn't have the belief ? I don't think it definitively proves it. It supports and corroborates it, but doesn't definitively prove it. Even the person who ultimately gives their life for the cause, could still arguably be doing it for some other reason.

How do you know for sure that someone believes a god exists?

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