How do you feel about the change taking place in concern with marijuana laws?

Shane Roach · Mar 24, 2009

b&wpac4 said:
I got pulled over in for suspected drunk driving.... He lets me go, but tells me I was lucky this time.

I want so bad to be a law and order sort of person. It is my instinct. Sadly, this sort of cocky nonsense behavior is so typical now that even I cannot overlook it. It seems to be becoming the norm instead of the exception.

0%, lucky... yeeeeah.

b&wpac4 · Mar 24, 2009

Shane Roach said:
I want so bad to be a law and order sort of person. It is my instinct. Sadly, this sort of cocky nonsense behavior is so typical now that even I cannot overlook it. It seems to be becoming the norm instead of the exception.

0%, lucky... yeeeeah.

It was really funny. It was all I could do not to laugh in his face, because really, at some point you have to understand you've just wasted 25 minutes of time for a person who, at best, is driving while not being able to see badly repainted roads at night, which isn't a crime last time I checked.

TheBear · Mar 24, 2009

I think it's a move in the right direction, for many reasons.

Matthewj1985 · Mar 24, 2009

Steelerbred33 said:
The point is to limit chemicals that come into the body. Right now, I cannot choose to stop these chemicals by simply being alive but I can choose to not inhale an additional 421 chemicals that can be harmful to my physical and mental state.

I don't disagree that there haven't been nearly as much damage by marijuana as tobacco and alcohol have had on the human body. But that still doesn't take away from the fact that marijuana is unhealthy for both the physical and mental health of an individual. Putting tar in one's body cannot be healthy.

No intoxicant (if you can really call pot that) is perfectly safe but even according to a DEA judge, Marijuana is by far the safest most therapeutic drug on the ENTIRE market today.

I personally believe (based on the science) that there is zero long term harm done to adult users, regardless of the strength or frequency of use. Every time we study pot smokers we find that any and all negative side effects vanish after short periods of abstinence.

I am simply arguing that with all the data we have today, it is easy to conclude that marijuana is far safer than both alcohol and tobacco which means there is no "health" reason to keep it illegal and only about 1000 reason to make it legal.

Matthewj1985 · Mar 24, 2009

godanswers said:
Pot creates apathy and selfishness. I don't care how healthy it is. I know a lot of people who won't drink alone but they'll stay perpetually stoned all day, morning to night. Legalize it like alcohol and you dope the masses faster than television can. The prince of the power of the air would celebrate if pot-use were more prevalent. Don't believe them when they say it's harmless or safer than alcohol. It's different but more subtle in it's destruction.

But God saves us from our ignorance and rescues us from the current that flows over the edge to destruction. Trust in the LORd with all your heart and lean not onto your own understanding...

How do you explain the sky not falling in every other area of the planet to legalize?

Matthewj1985 · Mar 24, 2009

Steelerbred33 said:
That's true, although I would assume you are still digesting many of the same chemicals and properties of the plant.

I don't know about you but in my life I want to limit as many addicting things as I can. This goes for drugs, alcohol, pills, food, computer and TV. I strive for idealism and self-actualization and nearly all drugs (certainly illegal drugs) can starve this process and we become reliant on them for peace and a sense of calm.

It isn't just the physical attributes of drugs that I detest but also the psychological dependence that they can create. Sure, not everyone who smokes pot is addicted but why risk it? Why not invest in more healthy and permanent solutions?

Is that not a horribly sad life? I mean you are saying if you enjoy something, you have to stop so you don't become "addicted".

Matthewj1985 · Mar 24, 2009

Steelerbred33 said:
http://www.ahealthyme.com/topic/marijuana

lol, talk about a biased source, WTH is a "bad trip"? Guess what happens here on earth when you get "too high", you GO TO SLEEP.

Matthewj1985 · Mar 24, 2009

Steelerbred33 said:
Congrats! My mom is still very much addicted to nicotine and it is frustrating to watch. Wasting all that money to put toxins in your body and watching her health decline because of smoking is difficult.

Now imagine how you would feel if your mom got her door kicked in at 2am and was hauled off in handcuffs, all because she liked to smoke.

Matthewj1985 · Mar 24, 2009

Shane Roach said:
As long as it is legalized by the consent of the governed, I am not at all offended. Fact is, though I do not use it, I know a lot of people who do, and it has begun to annoy me in much the same way seatbelt laws, gun control laws, and even the more extensive drinking and driving laws annoy me.

We've gone on past the "Nanny State" and into the "You're in Jail and You Just Don't Know it Yet State".

In Austin TX, if an officer suspects you of drinking and driving, and you decline the breath test, they can jump you, immobilize you, and have a medic take your blood right there on the spot. No warrant... No nothing.

I know it's become utterly politically incorrect to question laws about drunk driving but folks, I've driven sleepy way more often than drunk, and there's still no law.

Ultimately, you really ought to at least wait for someone to do something that most people do not do habitually before you arrest them. That's why I am ok with MJ being legal, even though I wish we lived in a country where people's values were such that it were not so commonly used.

Check your facts, drawing blood in Texas without a warrant is still very illegal and inadmissible, the cops know this and so do the DAs. A city like Austin will have a judge on call at the jail, if you refuse to blow they take you in, get the judge to sign and then an EMT can take the sample. Yes, they will restrain you to do this but if they have a warrent then it is fair game.

Matthewj1985 · Mar 24, 2009

Belk said:
Seriously?!? Now don't get me wrong I am a firm believer in drunk driving laws, but that is over the top. Here in Washington if you refuse the test you have to give up your license for a year, but they cannot test you against your consent unless there has been an actual accident.

In Texas when you get your license, as a condition you give consent to blow, refusing on the side of the road is not an admission of guilt but you going back on your word and they will yank your license for a year. The crappy part for you though is that you think you are going to get away with it, when you get to the jail they WILL be drawing blood and there is no "ok, I'll blow now", you are getting stuck.

GhostSlug · Mar 24, 2009

Steelerbred33 said:
"Cannabis produces more tar ( up to 50% more) than an equivalent weight of tobacco and is smoked in a way that increases the accumulation of tar.The carcinogen benzopyrene, for example, is 70% more abundant in marijuana than in tobacco smoke. When cannabis tar is applied to the skin of experimental animals, it causes precancerous lesions similar to those caused by tobacco tar.

I completely understand where you are coming from with the inhalation aspect. You have to remember though, the difference between how someone smokes a cigarette verses smokes a joint. Most people who smoke marijuana use filterless, loosely packed rolling papers and take deep breaths and will often hold their breath for an extended period of time(which actually doesn't enhance the effects of thc).

Sources of Benzo[a]pyrene
Benzo[a]pyrene is found in coal tar, in automobile exhaust fumes (especially from diesel engines), in all smoke resulting from the combustion of organic material, and in charbroiled food. Recent studies have revealed that levels of benzo[a]pyrene in burnt toast are significantly higher than once thought,[citation needed] although it is unproven whether burnt toast is itself carcinogenic. Cooked meat products, regular consumption of which has been epidemiologically associated with increased levels of colon cancer[1] (although this in itself does not prove carcinogenicity)[2], have been shown to contain up to 4 ng/g of benzo[a]pyrene,[3] and up to 5.5ng/g in fried chicken[4] and 62.6ng/g in overcooked charcoal barbecued beef.[5]

An average marijuana cigarette contains 30 nanograms of this carcinogen compared to 21 nanograms in an average tobacco cigarette (Marijuana and Health, National Academy of Sciences, Institute of Medicine report, 1982). This potent carcinogen suppresses a gene that controls growth of cells. When this gene is damaged the body becomes more susceptible to cancer. This gene, P53, is related to half of all human cancers and as many as 70% of lung cancers.

It seems like overcooked meat has twice as much benzopyrene as marijuana.

Special white blood cells in living lung tissue-alveolar macrophages-play a role in removing debris from the lungs. When exposed to smoke from cannabis, these cells are are less able to remove bacteria and other foreign debris.

Smoking only a few marijuana cigarettes a day up to 6 to 8 weeks can significantly impair pulmonary function. Heavy use causes cellular changes and that users have a higher incidence of laryngitis, pharyngitis, bronchitis, cough, dry throat. "

"Drugs and Society" (Hanson, Venturelli, and Fleckenstein)

Hmm...doesn't sound too healthy to me. Since when does putting 421 chemicals in your body healthy?

I don't know anyone who smokes several marijuana cigarettes a day. Why does everyone want to focus on the smoking aspects of marijuana. If taken orally, all dangers associated with smoking are eliminated. Besides, there are several things that are completely legal to do that are even more dangerous, most of which can easily be found in the average back yard or under the kitchen sink.

Should we outlaw all fatty foods? There are a LOT more diseases, cancers, and impairments associated with obesity than with marijuana, yet a triple whopper with cheese is available on almost every corner. Talk about putting a lot of chemicals in your body. Several "Over the Counter" medicines have even more negative side effects than marijuana. Did you know that you should never take ibuprophen on an empty stomach? Not because it will induce nausea, but because it will eat away your stomach lining and can actually hurt your liver. Even vitamins can hurt you. Iron poisoning, vitamin A poisoning and several others.

I'm not saying that everyone needs to go out and smoke a big doobie, (even though I do believe that the world would be a slightly nicer place lol), but I do think that people need to look at what everyday legal things we do that are much more harmful to our bodies before challenging something else, such as occasional recreational or medicinal marijuana usage.

Shane Roach · Mar 24, 2009

Matthewj1985 said:
Check your facts, drawing blood in Texas without a warrant is still very illegal and inadmissible, the cops know this and so do the DAs. A city like Austin will have a judge on call at the jail, if you refuse to blow they take you in, get the judge to sign and then an EMT can take the sample. Yes, they will restrain you to do this but if they have a warrent then it is fair game.

Ugh, Ok you're right. I was apparently misunderstanding and thinking that the practice had already started. They publicized it, but there are serious obstacles as it turns out.

So now their "No Refusal Weekends" are basically just a highly publicized period of time when Austin is basically promising you they will go to the extra trouble to get your blood checked if you refuse.

http://dwi.austindefense.com/articles/blood-test-cases/

http://dwi.austindefense.com/2008/0...ed-blood-draws-coming-to-austin-in-dwi-cases/

Matthewj1985 · Mar 25, 2009

Shane Roach said:
Ugh, Ok you're right. I was apparently misunderstanding and thinking that the practice had already started. They publicized it, but there are serious obstacles as it turns out.

So now their "No Refusal Weekends" are basically just a highly publicized period of time when Austin is basically promising you they will go to the extra trouble to get your blood checked if you refuse.

http://dwi.austindefense.com/articles/blood-test-cases/

http://dwi.austindefense.com/2008/0...ed-blood-draws-coming-to-austin-in-dwi-cases/

How about you just give up the hard drug alcohol all together? I did it and lost 20 pounds

Shane Roach · Mar 25, 2009

Matthewj1985 said:
How about you just give up the hard drug alcohol all together? I did it and lost 20 pounds

My beliefs about drunk driving laws are not based on me being a habitual drinker. There's almost always vodka in my freezer, but that's because I rarely ever drink it. I go out I'd say once a week and only drink when I do so once a month on average or possibly less.

I believe it is simply morally reprobate to make things illegal when many or most people do it, and there is no real moral depravity to it.

Ever driven while sleepy? They you deserve to have your license taken away every bit as much as a drunk driver barely tipping the legal limit.

Ever driven while angry? Then you deserve the same. Eaten a burger while driving? Talked on the phone? The same.

It's an emotionalistic over reaction that has run amok based on the political incorrectness of attacking the main sponsors of the drive - MADD. The laws we had on the books before drunk driving laws were even written would have sufficed to give us the same exact improvement in alcohol and drug related accidents if properly administered.

BananaSlug · Mar 25, 2009

Steelerbred33 said:
"Cannabis produces more tar ( up to 50% more) than an equivalent weight of tobacco and is smoked in a way that increases the accumulation of tar.The carcinogen benzopyrene, for example, is 70% more abundant in marijuana than in tobacco smoke. When cannabis tar is applied to the skin of experimental animals, it causes precancerous lesions similar to those caused by tobacco tar.

An average marijuana cigarette contains 30 nanograms of this carcinogen compared to 21 nanograms in an average tobacco cigarette (Marijuana and Health, National Academy of Sciences, Institute of Medicine report, 1982). This potent carcinogen suppresses a gene that controls growth of cells. When this gene is damaged the body becomes more susceptible to cancer. This gene, P53, is related to half of all human cancers and as many as 70% of lung cancers.

Some websites claim marijuana has up to 70% more benzopyrene than tobacco when in reality it is around 42%. Most people are not habitual users of marijuana and may only smoke 2-3 joints on a weekend. Some smokers can consume as many as 2 packs a day though I think the average is around a pack and a half or less. Even if a single marijuana cigarette has 42% more benzopyrene, the amount of cigarettes a person smokes in a day far outweighs the one to two joints a person may occasionally smoke.

Let's not forget how a person smokes marijuana verses how a person smokes a cigarette. Marijuana smokers inhale much more deeply and hold it in longer than someone smoking a cigarette. Plus cigarettes made from marijuana tend to be loosely packed and lack a filter.

Benzo[a]pyrene is found in coal tar, in automobile exhaust fumes (especially from diesel engines), in all smoke resulting from the combustion of organic material, and in charbroiled food. Recent studies have revealed that levels of benzo[a]pyrene in burnt toast are significantly higher than once thought,[citation needed] although it is unproven whether burnt toast is itself carcinogenic. Cooked meat products, regular consumption of which has been epidemiologically associated with increased levels of colon cancer[1] (although this in itself does not prove carcinogenicity)[2], have been shown to contain up to 4 ng/g of benzo[a]pyrene,[3] and up to 5.5ng/g in fried chicken[4] and 62.6ng/g in overcooked charcoal barbecued beef.

Wow! One marijuana cigarette has 30ng, one tobacco cigarette has 21ng, and overcooked charcoaled beef has 62.2ng per gram. If an average serving size in 4 ounces, that is around 113 grams. Than means an overcooked 4 ounce hamburger patty has over 7000ng of benzopyrene! A 4 ounce serving of fried chicken has 620ng!

Special white blood cells in living lung tissue-alveolar macrophages-play a role in removing debris from the lungs. When exposed to smoke from cannabis, these cells are are less able to remove bacteria and other foreign debris.

Even so, mature individuals should be able to decide whether or not to partake.

Smoking only a few marijuana cigarettes a day up to 6 to 8 weeks can significantly impair pulmonary function. Heavy use causes cellular changes and that users have a higher incidence of laryngitis, pharyngitis, bronchitis, cough, dry throat. "

I would like to know how many people in the US actually smoke a few joints a day. Most people are probably weekend warriors.

Hmm...doesn't sound too healthy to me. Since when does putting 421 chemicals in your body healthy?

So if something is unhealthy then we should outlaw it? This may surprise you, but the number 1 epidemic in the US is not marijuana, it is obesity. Obesity is linked to many more cancers, diseases, and maladies than marijuana yet a double whopper with cheese, a double quarter pounder with cheese, or some other fat laced food is available on almost every street corner.

Excessive body weight is associated with various diseases, particularly cardiovascular diseases, diabetes mellitus type 2, obstructive sleep apnea, certain types of cancer, and osteoarthritis. As a result, obesity has been found to reduce life expectancy.
As obesity is one of the leading preventable causes of death worldwide and with rates of adult and childhood obesity increasing, authorities view it as one of the most serious public health problem of the 21st century.

Cardiology

Dermatology

Endocrinology and Reproductive medicine

Gastrointestinal

Neurology

Oncology

breast, ovarian
esophageal, colorectal
liver, pancreatic
gallbladder, stomach
endometrial, cervical
prostate, kidney
non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, multiple myeloma

Psychiatry

Depression in women
social stigmatization

Respirology

obstructive sleep apnea
obesity hypoventilation syndrome
asthma
increased complications during general anaesthesia

Rheumatology and Orthopedics

Urology and Nephrology

Mortality

Obesity is one of the leading preventable causes of death worldwide. A BMI of over 32 has been associated with a doubled mortality rate among women over a 16 year period and obesity is estimated to cause an excess 111,909 to 365,000 death per year in the United States. Obesity on average reduces life expectancy by 67 years. A BMI of 30 - 35 reduces life expectancy by 24 years while severe obesity (BMI >40) reduces life expectancy by 20 years for men and 5 years for women.

In addition to its health impacts, obesity leads to many problems including disadvantages in employment and increased business costs. These effects are felt by all levels of society from individuals, to corporations, to governments.
The estimate range for annual expenditures on diet products is $40 billion to $100 billion in the US alone. In 1998, the medical costs attributable to obesity in the US were $78.5 billion USD, or 9.1% of all medical expenditures.
Obesity prevention programs have been found to reduce the cost of treating obesity-related disease. However, the longer people live the more medical costs they incur. Researchers therefore conclude that reducing obesity may improve the public's health, but it is unlikely to reduce overall health spending.
Obese patients can require special equipment, including wide chairs.

Obesity can lead to social stigmatization and disadvantages in employment. Obese workers, on average when compared to their normal weight conterparts, have higher rates absenteeism from work and take more disability leave, thus increasing costs for employers and decreasing productivity. A study examining Duke University employees found that people with a BMI over 40 filed twice as many workers' compensation claims as those whose BMI was 18.5-24.9. They also had more than 12 times as many lost work days. The most common injuries in this group were due to falls and lifting, thus affecting the lower extremities, wrists or hands, and backs. The US state of Alabama Employees' Insurance Board approved a controversial plan to charge obese workers $25 per month if they do not take measures to reduce their weight and improve their health. These measures are set to start January 2010 and apply to those with a BMI of greater than 35 kg/m2 who fail to make improvements in their health after one year.
Some research shows that obese people are less likely to be hired for a job and are less likely to be promoted. Obese people are also paid less than their non-obese counterparts for an equivalent job. Obese women on average make 6% less and obese men make 3% less.
Specific industries, such as the airline and food industries, have special concerns. Due to rising rates of obesity, airlines face higher fuel costs and pressures to increase seating width. In 2000, the extra weight of obese passengers cost airlines US$275 million. Costs for restaurants are increased by litigation accusing them of causing obesity. In 2005 the US Congress discussed legislation to prevent civil law suits against the food industry in relation to obesity; however it did not become law.

It seems smoking marijuana is better than a lot of the stuff we are allowed to do. If marijuana is illegal because it is bad for you then we should make all fatty foods illegal, especially since it seems they do more damage than marijuana could ever do.
Another thing I don't get is why does everyone focus on smoking marijuana? We have common sense, and inhaling any burning substance is bad for you. If you eat it you eliminate all dangers associated with combustion. I would also look at who funds the study on marijuana before you accept any of its conclusions. Studies funded by the federal government seem to find more "bad" than University funded studies (and those are few and far between). The most unbiased research on marijuana comes from Israel and Europe.

Shane Roach · Mar 25, 2009

Must... scale... wall of text....

wanderingone · Mar 25, 2009

Matthewj1985 said:
The reality is that it IS a far safer alternative to alcohol, it was for me and it is for 28 million other people.

I don't disagree.. I just think that when we get into the argument that these other things that are dangerous are legal it doesn't make the real point. Marijuana has valid medical uses for everything appetite stimulation for people with chronic wasting to making a darn good medicinal tea for bad menstrual cramps.

Besides having valid medical uses the efforts to control it are expensive and not necessary. Legalizing it puts an end to the ridiculous waste of law enforcement personnel and resources. Plus the state and federal government should realize they are missing out on great tax revenue by insisting on keeping pot illegal.

Shane Roach · Mar 25, 2009

"Plus the state and federal government should realize they are missing out on great tax revenue by insisting on keeping pot illegal."

I am exceedingly tired of the government becoming the drug pusher of record. If something is legal, it is legal. "Sin" tax's are nigh onto violating people's right to make money from their own labor. And what happens if the industries just decide to fold? Or worse, just ACTUALLY fold?

We are taxed at a rate far exceeding that which prompted the revolution. It is getting ridiculous.

Shane Roach · Mar 25, 2009

And also, I exceed at using exceedingly numerous references to excess.

canukian · Mar 25, 2009

Code:

Reborn_thru_him said:
I can't help but notice the buzz in the news lately about the possibility of changes taking place surrounding marijuana-related laws.

In Michigan: http://www.mpp.org/states/michigan/

In Massachusetts: http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2008/11/question_2_setu.html

In California: http://www.walletpop.com/blog/2009/...californias-finances?icid=sphere_wpcom_inline

http://stopthedrugwar.org/in_the_trenches/2009/feb/27/obama_administration_ends_dea_ra

Simple possession of weed is currently not a criminal offense in Alaska, California, Oregon, Nevada, Colorado, Mississippi, North Carolina, Ohio, New York, Massachusetts, Nebraska or Maine but simple possession remains a felony offense in Arizona.

So what do you guys think? I am pretty young and the stuff has been around me all of my life, I have often had a difficult time fathoming how such a prevalent thing became illegal in the first place. Maybe I just grew up with a skewed perspective.

On another note, for those of you Christians out there who enjoy a beer or two every now and then (and I know there are plenty of you out there), if pot were to become legal, would you feel okay using it, as long as you did so responsibly as with alcohol?

i really hate pot.
it is not harmless.
for some, it wrecks their life.
i hate alcahol too.
it wrecks lives too.
yes your veiw is scewered by popular opinion.

How do you feel about the change taking place in concern with marijuana laws?

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