How do we know you are saved?

FrederickO said:

I am asking for a straight answer to a major issue that I have just thought about. It should be a straight answer. I am sorry that you cannot help.

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I believe Salvation is a one time event. However, I can't understand how someone could view it as anything but a life changing experience, and wanting to become a better person than they were before out of gratitude for what He did for us.

I am a bit confused by that one?

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From your first post, you were not confused as stated but it seems you were false in your statement but already had your mind made up.

Good hunting.

The thing is: nobody can see that man' heart. I had a very hard time years ago. I was bitter and disappointed and I had been hurt incredibly by Christians. I ended up joining a small atheist organization and we even tried to provoke and offend Christians when there was a big Christian event in the city.
Was I still saved? Today I'd say yes, but I had lost touch with God. I had kept listening to people and so many Christians had hurt me so much that my anger won. A year later I left that organisation and found my way back to God. To this day I regret that I was ever a part of it and I have often prayed for forgiveness. But I also think that Gos saw my heart and knew what was going on.

As for that man, the one problem I see is that, should he find his way back and repent, he will hardly be able to change his situation back. But I would never allow myself to say he isn't saved. Only God can do that.

FrederickO said:

It might not be important to you but to me it is fundamental. I was told that by being born again I would be assured of salvation. But when the particular case of the Christian husband who left his wife and kids for another woman came up I wondered if it still applied to him. I thought this Forum would be a good way to help me work things through. But it seems to me that others have as little understanding as I do.

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You may be putting to much weight on this question if it means that much to you. I have great understanding in this field and have wrestled with the scriptures often. Usually without anyone's help but the Word and The Spirit. Do do see others input is good here but may be you should buy some theology books and do a little reading.

Kayeliz said:

The thing is: nobody can see that man' heart. I had a very hard time years ago. I was bitter and disappointed and I had been hurt incredibly by Christians. I ended up joining a small atheist organization and we even tried to provoke and offend Christians when there was a big Christian event in the city.
Was I still saved? Today I'd say yes, but I had lost touch with God. I had kept listening to people and so many Christians had hurt me so much that my anger won. A year later I left that organisation and found my way back to God. To this day I regret that I was ever a part of it and I have often prayed for forgiveness. But I also think that Gos saw my heart and knew what was going on.

As for that man, the one problem I see is that, should he find his way back and repent, he will hardly be able to change his situation back. But I would never allow myself to say he isn't saved. Only God can do that.

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Excellent post!

FrederickO said:

It might not be important to you but to me it is fundamental. I was told that by being born again I would be assured of salvation. But when the particular case of the Christian husband who left his wife and kids for another woman came up I wondered if it still applied to him. I thought this Forum would be a good way to help me work things through. But it seems to me that others have as little understanding as I do.

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This is not as tough as people make it out to be.

First off, you cannot figure out the salvation of another person for that person. Proverbs 14:10 says, "The heart knows its own bitterness, And a stranger does not share its joy."

Ephesians makes it clear how we are saved, in chapter 2, "4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,9 not of works, lest anyone should boast."

and Colossians 2 tells us how to live this out, "As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving."

But you say this person was not always living rooted, grounded, in Him; and in their flesh turned from the truth, and walked as a lost man. This is possible, and happens to believers. But how can this person be assured they are still a believer, how do they know they still retain their salvation?

Well Ephesians 1 says:

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,


But where's the proof?

Well the Holy Spirit has a few jobs and one of them can be read in 1 John 3:19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him. 20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things. 21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.

Further examples for your situation comes out of 1Corinthians, where there was a man who flaunted an affair with his step-mother and Paul told the church in chapter 5 to "5 deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."

Paul had stated earlier, he didn't know this man and yet he had already judged him.
3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,

We could infer Paul didn't know this man personally, so how did he know he was born again, or how could he know if this man was sincere? Well, I think there are a few interpretations for this. Back in those days, it cost someone to be a Christian! and perhaps just his association with the church tipped Paul off that this man was not fully living out the revelation of his salvation. Or he could have received some very telling information in the letter sent to him prior about this man's conversion, and his testimony was enough to discern his spiritual conversion. Or he could have been given a word of knowledge, a word of discernment. Either way, Paul recognizes his flesh is with Satan, and that his spirit has the ability to retain the salvation he already had, or it could be saved through this turnover. Either way, Paul goes on in 2 Corinthians to give instructions on restoring this man back into the church after he repented.

There is no question regarding "Was he really born again? Are you sure?" It was understood that if this man truly loved God, and desired that relationship, godliness would follow and repentance would be a byproduct.

Jesus said in John 6:
No man can come to me, except the Father who has sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Does your friend desire a relationship with God? Is he repentant of the fact that he hasn't walked after Christ? That doesn't say to me, "This guys really sorry! He's born again!" or "This man needs to get saved!" But by your description it sounds like he's being drawn to Lord and he's being convicted of not believing on Jesus. Something a person walking after the course of this world, doesn't exhibit, nor do they care. The Holy Spirit isn't doing much comforting for the lost, because He's simply trying to bring them out of darkness and into the truth. He's trying to get them to believe on Jesus, and show them how righteousness can only be received as a gift from God.

We go on to read that bringing a person to seeing who they are in Christ, and that desire to live for God is apart of the job of the Holy Spirit in John 16:

7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. 8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 Of sin, because they believe not on me; 10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; 11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.



1John 1 says:
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

There is an assurance, but if you're looking for a card, or a vision, or something with your name engraved on it, good luck with that. You receive by faith, and it's not something of a human assurance, or a human intuition. It's a God-given intuition that can believe on things not seen. So... Either God's a liar, and he still holding a grudge against your friend, or he's forgiven your friend as His word said, and your friend is simply too carnal to understand that his right standing with God comes through what Jesus did, and not his individual actions.

Water Walker said:

You may be putting to much weight on this question if it means that much to you. I have great understanding in this field and have wrestled with the scriptures often. Usually without anyone's help but the Word and The Spirit. Do do see others input is good here but may be you should buy some theology books and do a little reading.

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This isn't directed towards you, but this practice I see pretty dominate in the body of Christ.

I definitely don't recommend theology books, Other than the Word of God; but the concept or seeking no matter the cost is important.

I notice alot of people have questions around here, and we'd love to get an answer and walk away thoroughly convinced and assured that what we believe is IT! But very few people are willing to really seek with their whole hearts. They want an answer, a sign, an engraved fence with God spelled across it with their name, twice, on Tuesday, and on Christmas.

And by that I mean, many people are okay with not getting it, because it will be like everything else, where "nothing ever comes to me, and further along I will find out." They want the answer to fall into their lap.

If they thought to themselves, "God wants me to have this answer more than I do!" If they thought about verses like 2 Peter 3:9

9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

If they saw themselves as prey while they didn't have their answer and remembered Hosea 4:6 "my people are destroyed from lack of knowledge. "

and as Hebrews 11:6 says,

And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

I'm not saying God can't/won't supernaturally answer questions on theology through a book, or a word of knowledge, but I would question whether that would be His best; and it definitely won't come to a person passively wanting to receive or willing to go without.

mjere said:

I definitely don't recommend theology books, Other than the Word of God; but the concept or seeking no matter the cost is important.


I'm not saying God can't/won't supernaturally answer questions on theology through a book, or a word of knowledge, but I would question whether that would be His best; and it definitely won't come to a person passively wanting to receive or willing to go without.

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Well I may be assuming that it needs not to be said: The Holy Spirit is the guiding factor in all study with the Scripture first and other sources as needed. One needs the minds of the past at times to assist us in not reinventing the wheel all the time and confirming that were are not way out in left field. I know the Spirit can do it also.

In the book of James it speaks of, if any of you lack wisdom, let them ask, so my best thought on the original post would be to get on your knees and really seek for the answer to your question. All other Christians can help you the best way our hearts lead, that is our part, but you only get your confirmation from the revelation you recieve.

Water Walker said:

Well I may be assuming that it needs not to be said: The Holy Spirit is the guiding factor in all study with the Scripture first and other sources as needed. One needs the minds of the past at times to assist us in not reinventing the wheel all the time and confirming that were are not way out in left field. I know the Spirit can do it also.

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I couldn't agree more.

But, I notice there are quite alot of frustrated people out there who don't really have a sound relationship with the Lord; and that can make it difficult to hear from the Holy Spirit. They think he's there to convict them, keep them in line, punish them, etc.

It's those frustrated individuals who usually have the most questions, and are more likely to turn to the quote un-quote experts, who they imagine have devoted themselves more fervently to the Lord. There is an inherent belief that those experts have achieved the standard that enables them to receive answers; and thus, a book is born out of the encounter; and that frustrated individual can turn Holy Spirit off and begin listening to the experts. After all, they have a book!

More often than not, those books only justify why a person isn't hearing from the Lord, and gets them back on the performance treadmill, asking God, "Have I done enough? Now can you verify that I've been saved? Can you verify that you love me? Can you speak to me and tell me that I'll make it?"

But a theology books may be the way God presents the answer to a person's questions. It's not that we don't pick up theology books. There are alot of good ones out there. It's that we expect the Lord to answer our questions directly through another person or their book, and let the Holy Spirit confirm it in our hearts. Peace should be a byproduct of receiving your information. Rejoicing should follow suit.

But I'm not against theology books, my life was changed through a book. I'm against the practice of agreeing that every book out there is presenting the truth according to scripture. Not to imply that's what you were saying. Just "spring boarding" off some points you made.

FrederickO said:

This question came to mind when reading a post in another thread. The issue was that a married Christian male had multiple affairs with women behind the back of his wife and kids and eventually he left his wife and set up home with one of his girl friends. So is he still saved or not? I am a bit confused by that one?

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Notice Mt 7:21,22. 21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’


The empowered Christians mentioned are operating in the gifts of the Spirit, doing miracles etc. These people thought they were saved and known by Jesus. In spite of that Jesus told them to depart and that He never knew. What would Jesus say to the cheating husband?

To me, it would be logically inconsistent to suppose that the cheating husband could be considered saved and the Spirit-filled people of Mt 7 not be saved, though this is not a strong argument.

The saved person accepts by faith, the saving power of the shed blood of Christ(e.g. John 3:16). Such people believe the Word of God is 100% true, they try to put Biblical teachings into action and they strive to improve daily.