How can we program our minds to think only about Jesus..

Thank you for this wonderful response, Catherineanne! To suffer is hard, but I think, like you, that God has a deeper meaning with it. I read some place that no one is given a trial that they cannot carry. Perhaps that means that we in all our weaknesses are strong?

Flower478 said:

Thank you for this wonderful response, Catherineanne! To suffer is hard, but I think, like you, that God has a deeper meaning with it. I read some place that no one is given a trial that they cannot carry. Perhaps that means that we in all our weaknesses are strong?

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I am sorry to say I don't think we are tested within our strength, but far beyond it. The proof of this is in Our Lord himself. He had his cross to bear, and three times he fell to the ground because of the weight of it.

Our Lord had Simon of Cyrene to help him, not to save his life but to enable him to reach where God wanted him to be. We too need Simons in our lives to help us when our own cross becomes just too heavy to be borne.

I think the best way to think about Jesus is to be open to him with your personal life like your personality, your opinions, even little things like favorite food. Look up to him like a friend who you can feel comfortable with anything. You don't have to try really hard, just love God and be blessed by him. You can think about what you want like food or career, ect. Being Christian is having a relationship with God and he wants you to enjoy his friendship with you. He doesn't want you to try so hard that all you think about is Jesus. He wants you to be happy with him.

hi Flower , very good question. Jesus gave us two symbols by which we can remember Him and what He has done for us. The bread and wine are the symbols by which we remember His awesome sacrifice for us on the cross. Its so amazing that Jesus died for us on the cross, it was such a cruel and painful death but He did it for us. All praise to Jesus!!!

The video links: www.lifetoday.org/beth just click the link adn then click on Watch Beth. dozens of teachings, great ones, will come up for you to select from.

Then there's this one: Gateway Church

And this one has a variety to choose from also: Gateway Church | gatewaypeople.com

And don't forget music: www.klove.com and K-WAVE 107.9 FM and http://solutionfm.com/ you can listen to these radio stations online.

miss-a said:

The video links: www.lifetoday.org/beth just click the link adn then click on Watch Beth. dozens of teachings, great ones, will come up for you to select from.

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I watch Beth on TV. She's really good with speaking the truth and really encouraging

I'm with you, rainbow. I watch as many of Beth's teachings as I can. God has given her a wonderful gift. She has been through so much in her life, such a difficult and painful background, and she has allowed Him to raise her out of it. She is an example of what He is willing to do with each of us. Watching her teachings has been so healing for me.

Catherineanne said:

I am sorry to say I don't think we are tested within our strength, but far beyond it. The proof of this is in Our Lord himself. He had his cross to bear, and three times he fell to the ground because of the weight of it.

Our Lord had Simon of Cyrene to help him, not to save his life but to enable him to reach where God wanted him to be. We too need Simons in our lives to help us when our own cross becomes just too heavy to be borne.

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I agree that we need "Simons" in our life, but disagree about that we are tried beyond our limits. May be The Father sent Simon to help and may be he sends us helpers also. Job lost everything, but got rewarded highly because he did not give in. To be tried can be very hard and it is easy to lose faith under such circumstances (which the devil wants us too), but if we trust in the Lord we will be rewarded too (with an everlasting life).

I think we have to look out for our "Simons". May be they are around if we look for them.

Flower478 said:

I agree that we need "Simons" in our life, but disagree about that we are tried beyond our limits.

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In which case, I certainly hope you never discover how mistaken you are.

Here is a story about a Christian woman, who was tried beyond her limits. This is a woman I knew. She married, and tried for children for several years, without success. Then, finally, as an answer to her prayers, she conceived; a boy as it happened.

About two or three months into her pregnancy she lost the child. She then found out that the reason she lost the child was that she had been given syphillis by her husband. He then admitted that he has a mistress, and then he left her, and went to live with his mistress.

This good Christian woman then quietly took her own life. I am certain that there can be no condemnation from God for what she did; she endured far more than anyone ought ever to be expected to endure.

But what it is important to realise is that there was also a failing in her family and friends, who had all lost touch with her, one way or another. This is why it is so important to keep in touch with people here or elsewhere who are struggling; as long as they know that others understand, and can help them to find their way, they are, I hope, unlikely ever to feel as alone, and as hopeless as my friend.

Because of this, I will never claim that we are not tested beyond our endurance, because she most certainly was. There but for the Grace of God go any one of us.

That is why my prayers remain in this part of the forum more than anywhere else; depression should never be underestimated, and we should never assume that people will always be able to cope. Sometimes they won't, and we need to make sure we are there for them when they can't. There may be a point when all hope is gone, all internal resources are gone, and all resilience is gone. At that point, I will stand with anyone, and pray on their behalf, when they can no longer pray for themselves.

We are indeed tested beyond our strength. Just as Christ was.

Catherineanne said:

In which case, I certainly hope you never discover how mistaken you are.

(............................)

This good Christian woman then quietly took her own life. I am certain that there can be no condemnation from God for what she did; she endured far more than anyone ought ever to be expected to endure.

(.............................)

Because of this, I will never claim that we are not tested beyond our endurance, because she most certainly was. There but for the Grace of God go any one of us.

(................................)
We are indeed tested beyond our strength. Just as Christ was.

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My dear Catherineannne,

I never meant to condemn anybody, by saying that we are not tested beyond our strenth (limits). I only mean that God sends us help in difficult situations, but we do not always see it. Suicide is a very bad thing to do, but only God knows what really happened. It is he who is the judge, not us. He will know if the person who did it regretted it after it was too late to reverse it. We don't know anything about that.

Evil is very difficult to explain, but in every situation, how bad it is, God is there. That is what we have to TRUST. I have experienced many bad situations in my own life included the feeling of no way out (only suicide, but I have always stopped in time). I am not a better person then the woman you tell about, but I'm still alive ... I hope that my life will end in a naturaly way when the time comes.

Jesus was not tested beyond his limits. Whit the help of the Father he reached Calvary (the aim for the day), even if he needed Simon to help to carry and even if he fell three times. The Father in heaven gave him the strength he needed to reach the aim (Calvary) wich was an aim (a step) in a greater plan: the atonement for us, the rising from the death and he ascended into heaven later. He made it because he trusted in the Father!

We also have to carry our crosses and to trust God:

"....and whoever does not take up the cross and follow me is not worthy of me" (Matt 10:38).

Nobody has promised us an easy life!

This is my last post on this topic. The intention was to give pepople hope when they are in the terrible and most unbearable situations: GOD IS STILL THERE AND HE CAN BE TRUSTED! This too will pass... Of couse we shall pray with people in whatever situation they are in. About condmning others Jesus says: "For with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged: and with what measure you mete, it shall be measured to you again" (Matt 7:2).

About trials:

"...even if now for a little while you have had to suffer various trials, so that the genuineness of your faith--being more precious than gold that, though perishable, is tested ..."(1Peter 1:6-7).

Must God bless you Catherineanne!

Flower478 said:

Jesus was not tested beyond his limits.

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Yes he was. That is why he fell, three times, on the way to Calvary. He simply did not have enough strength to carry on; he collapsed from exhaustion. He had already been beaten very severely, and he could not carry the cross that had been given to him. Similarly, many of us have been beaten by life, one way or another, and we too will find that our cross is simply too heavy, and that we collapse under its weight. Not every day, but at some time it will happen.

When this happened to Christ, Simon of Cyrene helped him, so that he was able to reach Calvary, and to die.

We too may be tested beyond our limits and fall. With God's grace, there will be a Simon for us, to help us to carry on, and to die in God's time, and in God's way.

It is simply untrue to say that we are not tested beyond our limits. Such a comment may seem benign, but it is not; it gives us permission to leave other people to God, in the safe knowledge that they will manage, somehow. Not everyone does manage, however.

Far safer is to realise that not every challenge that is sent to us can be borne, and that we are to help one another, and bear one another's burdens.

Catherineanne said:

Yes he was. That is why he fell, three times, on the way to Calvary. He simply did not have enough strength to carry on; he collapsed from exhaustion. He had already been beaten very severely, and he could not carry the cross that had been given to him. Similarly, many of us have been beaten by life, one way or another, and we too will find that our cross is simply too heavy, and that we collapse under its weight. Not every day, but at some time it will happen.

When this happened to Christ, Simon of Cyrene helped him, so that he was able to reach Calvary, and to die.

We too may be tested beyond our limits and fall. With God's grace, there will be a Simon for us, to help us to carry on, and to die in God's time, and in God's way.

It is simply untrue to say that we are not tested beyond our limits. Such a comment may seem benign, but it is not; it gives us permission to leave other people to God, in the safe knowledge that they will manage, somehow. Not everyone does manage, however.

Far safer is to realise that not every challenge that is sent to us can be borne, and that we are to help one another, and bear one another's burdens.

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I wanted the last post I wrote to be my last on this thread because I thought that you and I perhaps have different views of what being tested beyond limits is. If a person have a breakdown, you might perhaps say the person is tested beyond her/his limits, while I might call it a natural consequence of longstanding problems in self or in the person's life-situation OR perhaps to be spiritually tested ...., but not tested beyond limits. The person may be hospitalized, have helpers. The hospitalization may be a terrible experience or it can be a turning-point were the person becomes closer to God.

Testing is about our relationship to God, - if can trust God even in the most terrible circumstances... Since God is there for us in every situation, it's impossible to be tested beyond our limits. Even if we are in a plane crash we are not tested beyond our limits, the way I see it. Also in this terrible situation God is in control. We have to trust HIM. We might be saved from our suffering and helped to go on with our lives, but it might also happen that the accident has brought us to our last stage in life. May be we will be dead in ten minutes. We have to TRUST that God will bring us safely to eternal life in those ten minutes (if we get so much time).

I have in my former post (before this) explained how I look upon Jesus' sufferings, his fall (three times) and the help he got from Simon. He reached his aim for the day (Calvary were he had a "job" to do for the whole humankind). If he had been tested beyond his limits he would never have reached his aim. TRUST in God (here, the first person in the trinity) is the keyword. Jesus is God (the second person in the trinity). If he had distrusted the FATHER he could have freed himself from all the sufferings and run away from the job that was waiting for him, the atonement. But then we could not have been saved! Beside trust, obedience is another important word. He was obedient to the Fathers will just as he taught us to be in the prayer "Our Father".

Yes, we will all fall or have terrible moments in life, some of us more then others (not because we/they have sinned more, but perhaps because our/their life-circumstances are so). God will help us to carry our burdens, if we only will trust him. I see such fallings as natural, not as spiritual testing beyond limits. (Sometimes people have a nervous breakdown because of the pressure in the situation. It might have been unnatural to not have a reaction in such a rough situation). When we fall, the devil can turn the fall into a spiritual testing after it has happened. He can sow doubt about God's love or existence. To battle the devil we have to know his methods to fight against him (together with God who is the winner).

It is not true that such a view that I present will make other people indifferent toward those who suffer ("gives us permission"). Those who are indifferent are listening to the devil. Jesus has called every one of us to charity and to love each other as we love ourselves.

To be followers of Christ makes us some sort of siblings. We believe, we pray, etc. When we pray God might instill in the heart to someone who didn't realize she/he had to help, to do just that.

TRUST in God doesn't mean personal indifference for the one who is the "victim" either. As "victims" for depressions or other disorders, it is not the meaning that we shall sit in a chair and wait for God or helpers to do something for us. We are to self-educate ourselves and try to do what we can to prevent a downward spiral, but THAT doesn't mean that we will not fall. (Things goes up and down in life).

I think we shall stop our discussion here. My Christian view is not compatible with the view that we are tested beyond our limits because how bad it must be, God is always with us! There is no situation were God leave us alone.

I have deep respect for other peoples ideas, feelings and beliefs, but I can't force myself to deny my own belief. We are a lot of people here who belong to different Christian denominations. So be it. We are here to help and support each other in our sufferings with mental disorders. We are not here to discuss "the right Christian belief". So let us please be friends and end the discussion here!

There is one thing we we can agree about, however, Catherineanne: "not every challenge that is sent to us can be borne (alone), and that we are to help one another, and bear one another's burdens". (The word "alone" was put into the quote from you, Caterineanne, by me).

Catherineanne - thanks for your advice about holding on to a cross. I did that last weekend to stop myself from wanting to punch someone in the face, it really worked!

As told, I think we shall not discuss different Christian views in the depression-forum. aflower4God has thanked all of us for the help we tried to give at the original topic about staying close to Jesus.

When I add a little extra about "the other thing" that Catrineanne and I discussed, now, it is because a lot of people is reading this thread, more than 450 by now. I don't want to be misunderstood about were I am standing in this crucial question!

I do not believe that both good and evil comes from GOD. If so, I would have to believe that God sent evil people to sexually abuse little children, - made some husbands evil so that they could do violence to their families and so on. I even would have to believe that God had sent me my depression. I do NOT believe that.

I make a distinction between what happens either because of evil in human beings (what they do to others), the fallen angels or by accidents AND by SPIRITUAL TEMPTATION.

Both the angels and human beings were created good and both were given free will to do good or evil. Satan and his followers, the demons, were thrown out of Heaven because they chose evil.

When a bad situation happens to us, like depression, loss of a loved one, loss of income ... i.e., God is there with us in our sufferings. So is also Satan and his demons. They lurks in the background and study our weak points. When they have learned about them, they try to tempt us when we have our heart a little away from God. SPIRITUAL TEMPTATION comes from the devil, not from God (Remember the free will). If we not had free wills, we would have been God's puppets on a string. Luckily we are not! We are free to say when Satan tempt us: "Oh, yes I suffer, Satan, but I prefer God. I belong to God, so you waste your time on me!"

We can all experience situations which we feel are too heavy to carry! With the help of God, however, we will be able to tolerate the most difficult and hurting, even if we think it's unbearable.

If we let the devil deceive us, like he did with Adam and Eve, we can start to doubt God. (Can you hear the devil in the Garden: "Did God really say that you should not eat of the three of knowledge"?) Well, Eve started to doubt and she didn't, like a lot of us, stop to doubt. We know the consequences.

With the distinction I have made between HAPPENINGS and SPIRITUAL TEMPTATION I hope that it is clear enough why I can say that we are never tested beyond our limits.

God is always with us and he sends us helpers on the way. It is all about TRUST. Even in a plane-crash we are not tested beyond our limits. It hurts, oh yes it hurts and the survivors may even get PTSD afterward, so it is not easy. Still the survivors chose if they want to use their life for good or evil (when the PTSD are not bothering them).

Those from the plane-crash who understand that they will die in ten minutes also have a choice. Of course the demons will try to tempt them to forsake God, because this is the last chance the fallen angels have to destroy those God loves. Even THAT is not to be SPIRITUALLY TESTED BEYOND LIMITS. God is the strongest. He will be there in the sufferings and those persons who are going to die have to TRUST that if they want to enter the heavenly kingdom with God.

What I have written can be difficult to understand immediately, but I hope that those who got a little understanding will go back and re-read it later.

The topic is crucial. We have always a choice even when it looks very dark.

Here at CF we have each other so we can support each other when life seems too difficult. The depression-forum is charity. It is a working place for God!

Catheerineanne, you and those who share the opinion that one can be tested beyond limits (spiritually tested) are free to do that. I will respect you as you are. But I would not have had peace in my heart if I had not come back to explain myself properly.

Now I have done that and now I can leave Internet with PEACE in my heart.

I want to end this extra-explanation with a prayer I think we all can agree about (whatever Christian denomination we belong to):