How can RCs and Protestants reconcile

Markus6 · Feb 11, 2009

Hentenza said:
After reading through the last 8 pages of this thread I have a prediction.

We don't have a chance in hell of theologically uniting.

That's certainly true. However, there is a deeper form of unity than theological and that is the unity of being part of one person (not the pope).

Rick Otto · Feb 11, 2009

We don't have a chance in hell of theologically uniting

I always thought it was unrealistic to expect that.

I figured the best shot at unity was in obediance to the two greatest commandments-period.

squint · Feb 11, 2009

Hentenza said:
After reading through the last 8 pages of this thread I have a prediction.

We don't have a chance in hell of theologically uniting.

Administrative moment of clarity!

A case can be made for unity in the scriptures and that is a worthy cause. I would say that it even exists and has existed but only with the 'few.' Whoever 'they,' the 'few' are. All believers believe they are the few and all the other people who don't believe like them are going to fry.

An equal case can be made and far more easily proven that God has ALSO an exact opposite working that is ALSO in play and this direction is easily proven even as you have noted, by any casual glance or measure.

God in Christ did not come to bring peace. Nope. He surely came to bring divisions and this much is an undeniable fact and open proof of the efficacy of this working. IF this working is A FACT (it is) then it should be not only pointed to as PROOF and FACT, but promoted, as it is GODS WILL in ACTION.

enjoy!

squint

LittleLambofJesus · Feb 11, 2009

simonthezealot said:
Paul added NOTHING to this...Here it is in its entirety...
And this is from Paul who was given forth to be the preacher of his gospel by direct revelation from Jesus the Christ.

And like all the Apostles and Christians, he was persecuted for it

Acts 23:14 Who-any toward coming to the Chief-priests and to the Elders say "to-anathema/anaqemati <331> we anathemtize/aneqematisamen <332> (5656) ourselves of no yet nothing to taste till of which we may be killing the Paul.

Reve 22:3 and every anathema/kat-anaqema <2652> not shall be still. And the throne of the God/YHWH and of the Lamb-kin/Word in Her shall be, and His bond-servants shall be offering divine-service to Him.

sunlover1 · Feb 11, 2009

Intercisus said:
Until Mr. Luther's escapades the only Christians in existence were Roman Catholic and Orthodox. .

Markus6 said:
That's certainly true. However, there is a deeper form of unity than theological and that is the unity of being part of one person (not the pope).

Amen. Oneness.

Rick Otto · Feb 11, 2009

LittleLambofJesus said:
Report them to the MODS then

Leave the mods alone.
Teach the crybabies how to be tough & the bullys to wise up.

JohnDeereFan · Feb 11, 2009

Intercisus said:
Did you not say that Catholics are unable to explain the Gospel? Until Mr. Luther's escapades the only Christians in existence were Roman Catholic and Orthodox. Were they all saved without the knowledge of the Gospel?

Seems to me, I've heard this kind of logic before:

Why are fire engines red?

Because they've got 8 wheels and 4 people on them

8 + 4 = 12

There are 12 inches in a foot

One foot is a ruler

There was a ruler named Queen Elizabeth

A ship named Queen Elizabeth sails the seas

In the seas are fish

On the fish are fins

The Fins fought the Russians

And Russians are red.

And that's why fire engines are red. Because they're always rushin'

There are plenty.

Well, so far only one Catholic has responded and even he couldn't explain what the Gospel is. In fact, he didn't even know the difference between the Lord's Prayer and the Gospel.

Musa80 · Feb 11, 2009

simonthezealot said:
The gospel is...
1 corinthians 15:
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

I seem to have heard these words before. It's almost as if they had made their way into some kind of creed or something that succinctly summarizes the Gospel and Catholics, Orthodox, and even *shock* *surprise* Baptists all affirm.

Note: Aside from a specific 3 words that need not be mentioned

CaliforniaJosiah · Feb 11, 2009

Intercisus said:
Did you not say that Catholics are unable to explain the Gospel? Until Mr. Luther's escapades the only Christians in existence were Roman Catholic and Orthodox.

... ah, so division existed LONG before Luther was born.

And it is your position that Gnosticism, Arianism, etc. were all Catholic or Orthodox. Interesting.

Now, since you have been officially UNreconciled with the RCC for nearly 1000 years, what is YOUR view regarding the question of the opening post. After all, the RCC excommunicated the EO nearly 500 years before it did Luther.

.

christianmomof3 · Feb 11, 2009

JohnDeereFan said:
Not at all. I'm not playing games. I'm not here to try to trick anyone or to trap them into giving me a pre-planned answer. I just want a Catholic to explain to me, pretending that I am an unsaved person, how I can be saved.

First of all, I never said that I'm the only one who knows what the Gospel is. I said that Catholics cannot articulate the Gospel and, so far, the only Catholic who's responded has proven that to be an accurate statement.

Originally Posted by JohnDeereFan

....I said that Catholics cannot articulate the Gospel and, so far, the only Catholic who's responded has proven that to be an accurate statement.....

Once again for the learning impaired:

Originally Posted by katholikos

......For the record, as a Catholic, I can tell everyone: The Gospel is the Good News that God became a man so that we could become adopted sons of God. I doubt you will find a better, more succinct explanation of the Gospel than that.

I have seen a lot of rude statements in this thread which do not express Christ at all, which is sad from a group of people who profess to be Christians.
This question and answer though brings up something that I have seen and that UB alluded to.

I think it is a valid question to ask Catholics (or any other Christian or Christian group representative) what they think is the gospel and how one can become saved. It is something that I find quite interesting as the concept does vary a bit from group to group. Yet, when asked that, the Catholic members here get defensive and often rude. I tried asking that or something like that at some point in the past in their OBOB area along with a few other sincere questions and they were so rude I don't go there anymore. The Orthodox, on the other hand, have always been polite in their replies to sincere questions in TAW.

katholikos, your reply above does not answer the question. If I had never heard the gospel and was unsaved and you told me that, I would still be unsaved. If you met someone who was unsaved who wanted to know about the Lord and how to be saved, is that all you would say? If someone did not want to be saved, but just wanted to know, in your religion how do you believe that someone gets saved, what would you answer? Is that all? Because to someone who knows nothing about the Bible or the Lord, that answer does not help much. I don't mean to put you on the spot and I am not attempting to be disrespectful. I just want to know is that all that you could say to someone or do you have any other reply that you could share with others based upon what you have learned in your religion?

simonthezealot · Feb 11, 2009

Intercisus said:
Until Mr. Luther's escapades the only Christians in existence were Roman Catholic and Orthodox. Were they all saved without the knowledge of the Gospel?

This is not true whatsoever...
Furthermore early christians were church universal NOT roman catholic...
Clement was the first presbyterian

Nadiine · Feb 11, 2009

Originally Posted by Hentenza

After reading through the last 8 pages of this thread I have a prediction.

We don't have a chance in hell of theologically uniting.

Nor should we with SOME! We would be in error to think that
we're to unify with false spirits & demonic doctrines.
That is a serious pressure being placed on the world right now
& esp. in Christianity (prophecied to come in the end of days).

Distinction has to be made as to central doctrine.
Personally, I don't see why this Catholic/Protestant thing is this big when the basics of salvation/the gospel are accepted by both religious party's
& both are Orthodox.

From there it goes into individual fruit imho.
But I will divide from certain groups without any hesitation & I make
no apologies for that when we're commanded to.

LittleLambofJesus · Feb 11, 2009

Rick Otto said:
Leave the mods alone.
Teach the crybabies how to be tough & the bullys to wise up.

It is not for lack of trying

Matthew 3:7 Being aware yet many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming upon the baptism of him he said to them "produce of vipers! who shows to ye to be fleeing from the being about/melloushV <3195> (5723) Wrath"

Ezekiel 39:12 And house of Israel bury them so that to Purify/Cleanse the Land seven months. And all of people of the Land bury them, and He becomes to them for a Name, Day of to be glorified Me, declaration of my Lord YHWH.

JohnDeereFan · Feb 11, 2009

katholikos said:
Once again for the learning impaired:

Well, aren't you sweet.

Musa80 · Feb 11, 2009

CaliforniaJosiah said:
... ah, so division existed LONG before Luther was born.

Have you ever seen me say otherwise?

CaliforniaJosiah said:
And it is your position that Gnosticism, Arianism, etc. were all Catholic or Orthodox. Interesting.

No it is my position that they were and still are heretics.

CaliforniaJosiah said:
Now, since you have been officially UNreconciled with the RCC for nearly 1000 years, what is YOUR view regarding the question of the opening post. After all, the RCC excommunicated the EO nearly 500 years before it did Luther.
.

Interesting history you have there. The Pope of Rome attempted to excommunicate one, singular Eastern Bishop. The Pope was then excommunicated by all the Eastern Bishops. But that is hardly all of the history of the schism. I would love for that schism to be healed but my thoughts on the matter don't really count for much as I don't think anyone will be calling me a Bishop of any sort anytime in my life.

squint · Feb 11, 2009

sunlover1 said:
Sorry Squint, Had to search through this see of craziness to find your
post.
Just because someone sees something different than you doesnt mean they're 'condemning' their 'fellow man'.

Well SL, you 'accused' me of having a strawman. I asked specifically 'what' my strawman was. Thank you for responding because your charge carried no specifics.

You do realize that 99.9% of you DO in fact condemn our fellow mankind in some fashion in the name of 'faith' so until someone proves otherwise, I feel it is logical to assume that condemnation is readily available with any honest quizzing. Sometimes this condemnation comes out kicking and screaming, sometimes in blatant outright denial, but it IS there in nearly all believers and YOU know it.

And as long as that is IN believers there will simply be NO PEACE nor is any deserved.

Peace is something that we have to work our soil (our bodies) for by the sweat of our brow (thoughts) by Gods command and it WILL yield thorns and thistles just like any normal garden would. Perfectly natural.

Ya can't really get a good seed bed til you let the weeds pop up and then you PLOUGH THEM DOWN. That's the way this gig works too. No different.

We should FULLY EXPECT these WEED things to POP UP. It's RIGHT that this happens. It's GODS PLAN.

enjoy!

squint

LittleLambofJesus · Feb 11, 2009

Originally Posted by katholikos

Once again for the learning impaired:

JohnDeereFan said:
Well, aren't you sweet.

Who here is learning impaired

Matthew 8:12 The yet Sons of the Kingdom shall-be-being-cast-out/ek-blhqhsontai <1544> (5701) into the darkness, the outer/exwteron <1857>, there shall be the lamentation and the gnashing of the teeth. [Gnashing used 7 times, 6 times Matt, 1 time Luke]

Rick Otto · Feb 11, 2009

"Mr. Luther's escapades"

Sounds like a badly written sit-com with an aggressive laugh track.

Musa80 · Feb 11, 2009

Rick Otto said:
Sounds like a badly written sit-com with an aggressive laugh track.

Hentenza · Feb 11, 2009

squint said:
Administrative moment of clarity!

A case can be made for unity in the scriptures and that is a worthy cause. I would say that it even exists and has existed but only with the 'few.' Whoever 'they,' the 'few' are. All believers believe they are the few and all the other people who don't believe like them are going to fry.

An equal case can be made and far more easily proven that God has ALSO an exact opposite working that is ALSO in play and this direction is easily proven even as you have noted, by any casual glance or measure.

God in Christ did not come to bring peace. Nope. He surely came to bring divisions and this much is an undeniable fact and open proof of the efficacy of this working. IF this working is A FACT (it is) then it should be not only pointed to as PROOF and FACT, but promoted, as it is GODS WILL in ACTION.

enjoy!

squint

I agree, however, I qualified my statement with "theological unity". There should be no reason why we can't at the very least treat each other respectfully.

How can RCs and Protestants reconcile

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Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

Beloved, Let us love one another

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JohnDeereFan

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pursuing Christ

have you not read,what God has spoken unto you?

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Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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I will fear no evil for You are with me

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