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How and why we keep the Sabbath holy...

numlock321

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again this is a very clear instruction by God among all the days in the week... God says remember the sabbath day to keep it holy.. now i would ask you.. why did God said "Remember"? not "Keep the sabbath day holy".. you know why? simple... God already knows in the coming days Sabbath will be forgotten by man, thats why the fourth commandment says "REMEMBER the sabbath day to keep it holy"... among all the days there is a day which God made it HOLY and it is sabbath....

and from the laws you mentioned, first think about the laws that were AGAINST to the new covenant... no matter how many laws where established, there are still laws that been blotted out...! think of that laws among 613 youve mentioned that were against since you have the list... but still the Ten commandments was not among the blotted ones..
 
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Hupomone10

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Does the fact that God wrote the decalogue with His own finger in stone mean nothing to you? Maybe God realized how many laws there were going to be and decided to deligate the writing of the rest to Moses?
Yes, it means something to me. This doesn't answer the question in my post about arbitrarily assigning some parts of the Law of Moses to the cross and others being impervious to that, all according to our opinion. And so I really don't get your point.

And the fact that the decalogue was kept inside the Ark while the other laws were kept outside must have been because there wasn't the room to put them all inside, right?

Maybe there was a greater significance to the Ten than the rest...
Maybe. I agree.

And at least you agree that we are dealing with "maybe's", not any definite guidance given in the New Testament. If this is the way you are answering my question from that post then I will let it go.

 
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Hupomone10

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... no matter how many laws where established, there are still laws that been blotted out...! think of that laws among 613 youve mentioned that were against since you have the list... but still the Ten commandments was not among the blotted ones..
So you say, and give no evidence from Scripture nor from early Church historical practice to back it up.

Peace,
H.

 
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Hupomone10

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You do not have to be insulting and snippy, friend. I will be glad to tell you why I'm here; and it's not to proselyte. I have only asked challenging questions (which have mostly gone unaddressed such as the last one you answered of mine above) and responded to posts addressed to me. That is not proselyting and it is not violating the forum rules.

Why am I here? Yes, for one it was to see if there were any good scripturally sound answers to worshiping on Saturday as opposed to Sunday. But beyond that, notice the #1 post that started this thread. The same hokey cartoon video clip was placed on the Baptist sub-forum by one of the standard Sabbatarian posters, K4c, who claims to be a Baptist but believes as SDA folks do. I'm sure you're very familiar with him.

He has started - not just responded and asked questions - but started many threads recently on our sub-forum, and all are either having to do with soul sleep or with the Sabbath issue both from a SDA perspective. I got tired of answering him on our sub-forum and thought I'd follow him back home. I am here simply returning the favor to k4c. Irritating, isn't it?

And yes, I've made my point adequately enough, and if it was going to be answered it would have been by now. I do not wish to be the nuisance here that some people have been on the Baptist sub-forum, so I will leave in peace. I honestly don't wish to cause anyone distress or doubts in their walk. That is why I didn't come here posting hokey cartoon video clips about the Law being abolished or Sunday being the Lord's Day. But to each their own.

God bless, and good bye for now,
H.

 
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numlock321

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Let us start with #10: "the shema must be recited each morning and evening (Deut. 6:7)"

Do you observe this commandment? Is it important? How does it rate compared to the 4th commandment? If it is equal, why do we not hear much about it? Certainly it is violated as much or more than the Sabbath.?


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okay, whats wrong with "shema"? it is not contrary to the new covenant as far as i know!

But for the love of God to be of the right kind, the commandments of God must be laid to heart, and be the constant subject of thought and conversation. “Upon thine heart:” i.e.,the commandments of God were to be an affair of the heart, and not merely of the memory (cf. Deu_11:18). They were to be enforced upon the children, talked of at home and by the way, in the evening on lying down and in the morning on rising up, i.e., everywhere and at all times; they were to be bound upon the hand for a sign, and worn as bands (frontlets) between the eyes (see at Exo_13:16). As these words are figurative, and denote an undeviating observance of the divine commands, so also the commandment which follows, viz., to write the words upon the door-posts of the house, and also upon the gates, are to be understood spiritually; and the literal fulfilment of such a command could only be a praiseworthy custom or well-pleasing to God when resorted to as the means of keeping the commandments of God constantly before the eye.

and by the way did God says we write the law in our hearts,


1Jn 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
 
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Hupomone10

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ive already backed it up in my previous post...
I'm trying to leave, but I'll answer a challenge (remnant, please note that I am only responding to a challenge made, NOT trying to proselytize as you accused...)

No, here is your previous post
You claimed that certain of God's laws were blotted out, and that God's command to Israel to rest on the Sabbath was not one of them. I asked for
Scriptural evidence to back it up, and as you can see above, no you didn't give any.

But I'm content to leave; I don't think you understand my intent with the 613 Laws thing.

 
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numlock321

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i already said ive backed it up in my previous post.. (taken from the sabbath truth)


When some read in the New Testament about sabbath days that were shadows of the body of Christ and that passed away at the cross, they become confused and declare they mean the weekly Sabbath. They do greatly err and lead many uninformed people into error. Let us turn to Colossians 2:14-17 and read about the abolition of these sabbath days that were in the law and that enjoined meat offerings, drink offerings, new moons, and festivals: "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; ... let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a holyday [a feast day, A.S.V.], or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days, which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ."

There was nothing in the Ten Commandment law about meats, drinks, new moons, sabbath days (plural), or feast days. All these were in the law which the Lord told Moses to command to the people. The weekly Sabbath is not mentioned in these texts. Paul says plainly that he is speaking of "sabbath days which are a shadow of things to come," and not of the weekly Sabbath which was a memorial of something that happened in the past at creation.

The fourth commandment does not tell us to keep the seventh day as a type of something to come. It says: "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. ... For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it."

There is all the difference in the world between a typical shadow and a memorial. A shadow points forward, and a memorial points backward. The contrast is as distinct as that between night and day. And to show that He never had the weekly Sabbath in mind, the Holy Spirit distinctly mentioned "sabbath days which are a shadow of things to come." Of course the word "days" in this text (Colossians 2:14-17) is supplied, but this is justified by the fact that the word "sabbath" in the Greek is in the plural. Anyone may confirm this by consulting any Greek lexicon.

The King James Version uses the word "holyday," and some may content that it means "the weekly Sabbath" and the expression "sabbath days" means "the yearly sabbaths." The American Standard Version uses "feast day" instead of "holyday." This is correct. For the word translated "holyday" here is from the Greek hoerte, and in John 5:1 this word is used to designate one of the yearly festivals of the Jews: "After this there was a feast [hoerte] of the Jews; and Jesus went up to Jerusalem."

This is one of the holy days that Paul spoke of as having been abolished. Thus do the evidences multiply that it is absolutely wrong to tell people that these verse prove that the weekly Sabbath was abolished. We should further observe that "shadows" point to Jesus as a Saviour from sin and we observed with that in mind. But the weekly Sabbath was made for man before sin ever entered into the world. The shadows pointing forward to His death as an atonement for sin certainly were not instituted until after sin. But the Lord's rest day existed before man needed atoning blood to save him from his guilt. Now since the weekly Sabbath was instituted before sin, just as was the marriage institution, it was not a shadow of Christ's death as a Saviour from sin; and His death never brought it to an end any more than it brought the marriage institution to an end. Both institutions came to us from the sinless Garden of Eden.

Paul's very language to the Christians at Colosse proves he had reference to the shadowy ceremonies which pointed forward to and ended at the cross. Notice carefully his words in Colossians 2:14: "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross."

As plain as he can make it, Paul declares they were "ordinances" that were nailed to the cross. They were ordinances that would be "contrary" to the faith of Christians to observe. In fact he declares that the observance of these would be "against us." Now for the use of some good common sense. Would it be contrary to Christian faith and practice and against Christian principle to refrain from idolatry, profanity, Sabbath desecration, dishonoring parents, murder, theft, adultery, lying, and coveting? How could it be "contrary" to Christian principle and "against us" to refrain from the immoralities and vices condemned by the Ten Commandments? How unreasonable to think that Paul was arguing thus! He was talking of another law which enjoined meat offerings, drink offerings, the observance of feasts, new moons, and yearly sabbaths.
 
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numlock321

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Why would the observance of these ceremonies after the death of Christ be contrary to Christian faith and teachings? The answer is easy. Take the Passover sabbath that came during the first month every year. The killing of the Passover lamb typified the death of the Lamb of God. To offer it after His death would be saying, in figure, that Jesus had not died. It would be a repudiation of His death and atoning blood. Surely such an observance would be contrary to the teachings of Christianity. The apostle Paul declares, "For even Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us" (1 Corinthians 5:7). All the other typical ordinances in this law pointed to the death of Jesus on the cross, too. All these feasts, meat and drink offerings, and sabbaths that were nailed to the cross, Paul declares, were "a shadow of things to come"; and then he adds, "But the body is of Christ." That is, the body, or substance, that casts these shadows was Christ's body on the cross.

Now even a child knows that late in the afternoon when a tall tree casts its shadow eastward, one can begin at the farthest end of the shadow and follow it until he gets to the tree, or body, that casts it, and there it ceases. Just so, we may go back to the time when "by one man [Adam] sin entered into the world, and death by sin," and there a merciful God promised to send a Redeemer (Genesis 3:15), a Substitute, to die in man's place. To keep man continually reminded of this fact and to supply him with a means of expressing his faith in the coming sacrifice, God instituted these ceremonies. Most of them were given to man immediately after the fall; later several others were added, and all were included in the law which was not written on tables of stone.

Follow these shadowy ceremonies all the way from Eden to the time of Moses, and from then through the wilderness journey, and then on for hundreds of years after the settlement of Canaan, and at last to Calvary; there they cease. So it would be "against us" and "contrary" to our faith to observe these ceremonies after Jesus' death. To do so would be to deny that He had died. Not so with the other law. It is just as necessary to refrain from idolatry, profanity, Sabbath desecration, murder, adultery, and theft after the cross as before. In fact it was the violation of these principles that caused the death of Christ. Could they have been set aside or changed to accommodate the carnal mind, Jesus need not have died.

Now with these truths before us, let us again read Colossians 2:14-17 and see how plainly Paul reveals that he had not reference to the Ten Commandments: "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; and having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ."
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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Excellent presentation Numlock.. I'm saving that on my 'puter for future reference.
 
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ChrisCarol

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Oh by all means have I studied it and came to this conclusion because of that study whereby the Holy Spirit alone was leading me all the way:


In Matthew 26:32 He commands it:

32But after I am risen again, I will go before you into Galilee.

Matthew 28:7


7 Go quickly and tell His disciples that He has risen from the dead; and behold, He is going ahead of you into Galilee, there you will see Him; behold, I have told you

Matthew 28:10


10 Then Jesus *said to them, “Do not be afraid; go and take word to My brethren to leave for Galilee, and there they will see Me


And what happened when they got there?

Matthew 28:8 And they left the tomb quickly with fear and great joy and ran to report it to His disciples. 9 And behold, Jesus met them and greeted them. And they came up and took hold of His feet and worshiped Him.

10 Then Jesus *said to them, “Do not be afraid; go and take word to My brethren to leave for Galilee, and there they will see Me.”

and again what happens a little later?

Matthew 28: 16 But the eleven disciples proceeded to Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had designated. 17 When they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some were doubtful. (interesting)

Now this was the third time they worshipped Him on Sunday. The first time was:

9And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him.

Just a question: Why did they feel the need to worship Him?

I do not say from this scripture that He is saying we should worship on Sunday,I do see that He gave us a pattern in that He told the disciples to come to Galilee and when they did they worshipped Him. Do you believe that He knew that they would worship Him? Just something to think about. I came to conclusion of this after I had searched the scriptures of Jesus own words to declare us to keep the Sabbath, I did not find it but I was lead to these verses.

I have said previous that it matters not what day you worship on. What matters to me is that you say I am wrong for worshipping on Sunday. Why then did Jesus allow it here?

The Lord be with you as you seek HIS TRUTH: I am the way and the truth no one comes to the Father except thru me.

God thru His Spririt is available to us all to understand.
 
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numlock321

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@ chris carol

"I came to conclusion of this after I had searched the scriptures of Jesus own words to declare us to keep the Sabbath, I did not find it ..."

are you kidding? what about the ten commandment? the one written by GOd.!

Jesus even claimed he was also lord of the sabbath..


Mat 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.


sabbath was God Holy day, but sunday man holy day... see the difference
 
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stinsonmarri

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numlock321:​

If you can please show me in the Bible where it is written a passage that says "the Passover sabbath" because I have never read it?​

You stated:All the other typical ordinances in this law pointed to the death of Jesus on the cross, too. All these feasts, meat and drink offerings, and sabbaths that were nailed to the cross, Paul declares, were "a shadow of things to come"; and then he adds, "But the body is of Christ." That is, the body, or substance, that casts these shadows was Christ's body on the cross.

But this is what the Bible stated:

Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Yashua. Col 2:14-17


And Yahweh said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them. Ex 24:12

And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of Elohim. Ex 31:18

And he took and put the testimony into the ark, and set the staves on the ark, and put the mercy seat above upon the ark: Ex 40:20

Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Rom 7:12

The law of YAHWEH is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of YAHWEH is sure, making wise the simple. Psa 19:7



Name for the law Its nature Its effects

law perfect converting

testimony sure making wise

statutes right rejoicing

commandment pure enlightening


The problem with many who read the Bible they do not understand that the Bible was written to people of that time even though it should be apply to our lives today. That is why it is sad that scholars who have been train to understand the language of the body have not provided as they should true understanding of words in both the Hebrew and Greek language. It is important to know that the word law means Torah these are statutes and the word commandment means mitsvah and both were divine written by the finger of Elohim. This set of laws was also called Testimony and were placed under the Mercy Seat in the Ark of the Covenant.​

But there is another set of laws that were told to Moses by Yahweh and were written a book and placed on the side of the Ark of the Covenant. These laws were ceremonies, ordinances, rituals for sacrificial services of all type, oblations and priestly services that were done with the Sanctuary and were nailed to the cross. These laws were totally different than Yahweh's universal statutes and commandments.

H8451 - torah: a precept or statute, especially the Decalogue or Pentateuch: - law.

H4687 - mitsvah: a command, whether human or divine (collectively the Law)

Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of YAHWEH your Elohim, that it may be there for a witness against thee. Deut 31:26

And all the people gathered themselves together as one man into the street that was before the water gate; and they spake unto Ezra the scribe to bring the book of the law of Moses, which YAHWEH had commanded to Israel. Neh 8:1

G1378 dogma: a law (civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical): - decree, ordinance.

Paul never went against the word of the Almighty as proof he also told the Hebrews (Jews) in a letter to them who should have understood the truth. (Gal 1-13) Paul wrote to the Colossians that the law of Moses was nailed to the cross and those uncircumcised Jews of the heart were wrong in judging them in taking not the passover but Yashua's Supper (the bread and wine), Yahweh's Feast Days that belong to Him (Lev 23:1, 2 the holy days), new moon (the first day of each month men were to come and worship these were not holy days except the seventh month), and Yahweh holy Sabbaths. (Isa 66:21, 22) The word shadow means originally in the English language is "protection" and that is correct because the law has a protection (shadow) of good things to come (future) but not through the killing or sacrifices of goats, lambs, or doves but through the body of our Savior Yashua.

For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. Heb 10:1

Happy Sabbath and be bless,
stinsonmarri
 
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Hupomone10

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The sabbath law is a part of that stuff regarding "days" that you referenced that is not required under the new covenant. We can agree to disagree, but the Word says what I have said.

Blessings in disagreement,
H.
 
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Hupomone10

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so are you saying, sabbath is not required to the new covennant?
If by "sabbath is not required to the new covenant" you mean "observing the sabbath," then please clarify what is meant by "observing the sabbath." Please share things supported from Scripture, not man's thoughts on how we should observe it.

 
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numlock321

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still you dont see the very difference of the "HOLY" day which God himself sanctified, instead you the see the firstday of the week which God had not been sanctified..

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

for we know all things were created through christ.


Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
Gen 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,


the fourth commandment from the ten commandment was "Remember the sabbath day to keep it holy"..

the commandment was not remembering only.. take a closer look

"Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy"... now when you say "keep it holy" we worship God on sabbath for it is HOLY because Sabbath is not any other day that can be shifted!..

Mar 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
Mar 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

the "SABBATH" is the lords day! how can you go for the "FIRST DAY" of the week were God instruct us to work? but on the the seventh it is the day where God sanctified it himself.

now we know there is only ONE specific day where it is blessed and declared HOLY which is the sabbath... see the difference
 
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