honesty

exploring · Jul 16, 2006

to any christians: how important do you consider honesty - a lot is said about the necessity of accepting christ, but less is said about the imperative to truly believe what you say. Is it better to pretend to be chrisitian or to be honestly ungodly?

Livethefire · Jul 16, 2006

John1:6-7
If we claim to have fellowship in him yet walk in darkness, we lie and dont live by the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus,His son, purifies us all from sin.

Honestly and truth is what keeps us in the light to live our lives for Christ.
And the answer is in those verses, In John Chapter 1
VERY IMPORTANT

Being unhonestly godly is truthful for your morals, and hence it is a sin to live in the darkness while claiming to be in the light ( Pretending to be a christain)

I hope that answers your question.

quatona · Jul 17, 2006

Livethefire said:
Being unhonestly godly is truthful for your morals,

What do you know about my morals?

and hence it is a sin to live in the darkness while claiming to be in the light ( Pretending to be a christain)

I think the question was more like: Even though we are ungodly, would your god - presuming we have it wrong and he exists - still value our honesty, or does it not matter to him how virtuous a non-believer is?
Or in other words: If our ethics and our behaviour happen to match the standards of god (apart from being in the sin of non-belief, of course), does god see any value in that?

Livethefire · Jul 17, 2006

Sorry i ment, "If being unhonestly godly is truthful to your morals, thats the way you live"
(my bad)

And quite frankly yes God does love us all, but is maybe disapointed in the the fact that you may not live the way he intends.

quatona · Jul 17, 2006

Livethefire said:
Sorry i ment, "If being unhonestly godly is truthful to your morals, thats the way you live"
(my bad)

No problem. Thanks for clarifying.

And quite frankly yes God does love us all, but is maybe disapointed in the the fact that you may not live the way he intends.

Well, according to catholic doctrine we all - believers or non believers - don´t live the way he intends, right?
Let´s hypothetically assume a non-believer who happens to live the way god intends on the one side, and a believer who successes in that department are comparably poor on the other.
Please describe god´s emotions in regards to the two.

Livethefire · Jul 17, 2006

quatona said:
No problem. Thanks for clarifying.

Well, according to catholic doctrine we all - believers or non believers - don´t live the way he intends, right?
Let´s hypothetically assume a non-believer who happens to live the way god intends on the one side, and a believer who successes in that department are comparably poor on the other.
Please describe god´s emotions in regards to the two.

Well there is no definate answer on this ( i suppose it is philosophy)

The only difference is who would come to him in prayer?
And realsise what they are doing wrong,God would have respect for people who repent their sins, and want to STRIVE to become the best they can.

Er anymore christains about? Id love this topic to light up abit.

quatona · Jul 17, 2006

Livethefire said:
Well there is no definate answer on this ( i suppose it is philosophy)

No, I think it´s more a question of religious doctrine.
Anyways, if there is no answer on this I would find that truly disappointing. It might give me valuable information about the mindset, the intentions and priorities of god. You seemed to have quite some information about god´s emotions and desires, so I asked. Anyway, I prefer an "I don´t know" over a poor or spontaneously made up answer any day.

The only difference is who would come to him in prayer?
And realsise what they are doing wrong,God would have respect for people who repent their sins, and want to STRIVE to become the best they can.

We can suppose this to be true for the virtuous non-believer, for the sake of the argument: he feels remorse for not matching the standards and he strives to become the best he can.

quatona · Jul 17, 2006

Livethefire said:
Er anymore christains about? Id love this topic to light up abit.

It comes down to the old question "salvation by works or by faith", and this is one of the key questions different christian denominations and doctrines disagree upon.

Livethefire · Jul 17, 2006

quatona said:
It comes down to the old question "salvation by works or by faith", and this is one of the key questions different christian denominations and doctrines disagree upon.

Yeap, I always thought that aswell.

why have segregation within segregation?
Why is christian not just christian, without all these different denominations and different scriptures?

but suppsoe not better get into that in this thread eh.

quatona · Jul 17, 2006

Livethefire said:
Yeap, I always thought that aswell.

why have segregation within segregation?
Why is christian not just christian, without all these different denominations and different scriptures?

I guess the answer is simple: Because people believe differently. Else there would not only be no christian denominations, but also not different religions and non-religious worldviews at all.
We could extend your question to "Why is human not just human?"

but suppsoe not better get into that in this thread eh.

Yes, it´s off-topic indeed. I just couldn´t resist giving my response.

Livethefire · Jul 17, 2006

In theory it is, just not the anglefrom which our perception is gained or looked upon.

quatona · Jul 17, 2006

Livethefire said:
In theory it is, just not the anglefrom which our perception is gained or looked upon.

In theory what is what?
Anyways, I find theories to be even a tad more unreliable than our perception (which, admittedly, is unreliable enough). Theories evolve from and abstract our perceptions and they create the very order to "that which simply is" that we find desirable.
Honestly. (Just to open the way back to the topic)

Ran2004 · Jul 17, 2006

exploring said:
to any christians: how important do you consider honesty - a lot is said about the necessity of accepting christ, but less is said about the imperative to truly believe what you say. Is it better to pretend to be chrisitian or to be honestly ungodly?

This is any interesting conversation... Sorry to be breaking in to it and answering the original question, but I just don't feel advanced enough to get in on your conversation.

Anyway, back on track... In my very humble opinion having accepted Christ is great and all, but I think you truly need to live His path to the best of your abilities before you consider yourself a true Christian. I know that to many denominations and believers, accepting Christ is enough to be saved. I just think that if you have truly accepted Christ then you will follow His path and be honest to it.

If you have only pretended to accept Christ... Well, you can still follow his principles and that's great, but I don't think your salvation has been assured. I don't think it's worse than being ungodly, UNLESS you run around being a hypocrit and such.

Questions or comments on my views?

Jon-Michael

Livethefire · Jul 17, 2006

Ran2004 said:
This is any interesting conversation... Sorry to be breaking in to it and answering the original question, but I just don't feel advanced enough to get in on your conversation

Jon-Michael

HAHA no no, thank you, we were getting abstract there.

Im_A · Jul 17, 2006

exploring said:
to any christians: how important do you consider honesty - a lot is said about the necessity of accepting christ, but less is said about the imperative to truly believe what you say. Is it better to pretend to be chrisitian or to be honestly ungodly?

depends on who you ask. people can "justify" their struggles (while calling it sin) through the fact that we are damned since Adam and Eve's sin and that's why we require grace. method of thinking along the lines of, since i am a sinner, i needed grace, and even though i am still sinful (which could include many views of many struggles as defined by the individual/debated amongst individual Christians) i have grace.

on the other hand and for myself, i'd rather be honest that i'm skeptical of modern Christianity in almost ever fashion of what "skeptism" can entail and not live "ungodly".

even "non-Christians" seem to live at times, lifestyles that are more "godly" than the Christians, or visa versa. in my opinion, if it came down to a point of deconversion, or continue in so called "sin" just to be "right", i'd deconvert in a heartbeat.

Lilly of the Valley · Jul 17, 2006

exploring said:
to any christians: how important do you consider honesty - a lot is said about the necessity of accepting christ, but less is said about the imperative to truly believe what you say. Is it better to pretend to be chrisitian or to be honestly ungodly?

Honestly unglodly...you can see this illustrated in Matthew...w/ the pharasies (sp) and also in other parts of the NT. Being fake is greatly condemed by God and is even stated to get a worse judgement then all out blatant sinners.

Cleany · Jul 20, 2006

its probably good to at least try to be honest with yourself. then maybe you arent playing some game.

honesty

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