Homosexuality

OllieFranz · Dec 3, 2007

Jet_A_Jockey said:
There are plenty of biblical references regarding homosexual actions, and I've yet to find one that even remotely tolerates or condones them, let alone shows them in a blessed light. Pair that up with constant biblical models of man-woman relationships starting from the creation of man and not a mention of any sexual same-sex relationships.

Now we have the other side of the debate trying to justify their own prejudices.

"There are plenty of biblical references regarding sexual actions (both same-sex and cross-sex), and I've yet to find one that even remotely tolerates or condones them, let alone shows them in a blessed light. Pair that up with constant biblical models of man-woman relationships, and man-man relationships, and woman-woman relationships starting from the creation of man, and including Jonathan and David, and Naomi and Ruth.

Now we have the other side of the debate trying to justify their own prejudices."

While it is true that the Bible gives examples of only sinful same-sex sexual practices. But, at the same time, it gives examples of only sinful cross-sex sexual practices. Blessed sex is treated as part of a private interaction between spouses. If it were not that we know, from nature, that conception occurs because of sex, we would have no basis for saying any sex is blessed.

Your argument falls.

Ohioprof · Dec 3, 2007

Jet_A_Jockey said:
There are plenty of biblical references regarding homosexual actions, and I've yet to find one that even remotely tolerates or condones them, let alone shows them in a blessed light. Pair that up with constant biblical models of man-woman relationships starting from the creation of man and not a mention of any sexual same-sex relationships.

Now we have the other side of the debate trying to justify their own prejudices.

Against whom is the poster you are responding to prejudiced?

Ohioprof · Dec 3, 2007

Jet_A_Jockey said:
I said sexual relationships

Same-sex relationships are primarily love relationships, spousal relationships. Sex is often part of a spousal relationship, but it's only one part.

Why do you focus on sex and omit the love relationship, which is what spousal relationships are really about?

EnemyPartyII · Dec 3, 2007

Ohioprof said:
Same-sex relationships are primarily love relationships, spousal relationships. Sex is often part of a spousal relationship, but it's only one part.

Why do you focus on sex and omit the love relationship, which is what spousal relationships are really about?

because its much easier to condemn homosexuals for being evil if you focus on their unnatural, dirty sex practices, rather than try to find anything logical to condemn in their loving, caring, supportive monogomous relationships

Floatingaxe · Dec 3, 2007

EnemyPartyII said:
because its much easier to condemn homosexuals for being evil if you focus on their unnatural, dirty sex practices, rather than try to find anything logical to condemn in their loving, caring, supportive monogomous relationships

At Judgment, God hands out no kudos for how loving you may have been---the homosexual arrangements are forbidden.

That's like the thief who says he has given his booty to the poor.

It makes a mockery of the CROSS OF CHRIST!

EnemyPartyII · Dec 3, 2007

Floatingaxe said:
At Judgment, God hands out no kudos for how loving you may have been---the homosexual arrangements are forbidden.

That's like the thief who says he has given his booty to the poor.

It makes a mockery of the CROSS OF CHRIST!

No it doesn't.

Stop comparing homosexuality to acts that actually harm anyone. Its hurtful and hatefilled.

Brieuse · Dec 3, 2007

EnemyPartyII said:
No it doesn't.

Stop comparing homosexuality to acts that actually harm anyone. Its hurtful and hatefilled.

It's a common last resort tactic. We have over the months given substantial unarguable evidence that the relationships and lives we live are no less valuable to God than the lives they claim God desires and they claim to live.

a. Their arguments do not have substance - appeal to emotion.
b. Their arguments are not biblical. To this date I have not seen one bible verse that outright condemns monogamous loving homosexual relationships.
c. Their arguments are normally filled with Paul Cameron type lies. Lying is not a virtue of a Christian.

EnemyPartyII · Dec 3, 2007

Brieuse said:
It's a common last resort tactic. We have over the months given substantial unarguable evidence that the relationships and lives we live are no less valuable to God than the lives they claim God desires and they claim to live.

a. Their arguments do not have substance - appeal to emotion.
b. Their arguments are not biblical. To this date I have not seen one bible verse that outright condemns monogamous loving homosexual relationships.
c. Their arguments are normally filled with Paul Cameron type lies. Lying is not a virtue of a Christian.

not to mention our nails always look SO much better than theirs.

Floatingaxe · Dec 3, 2007

EnemyPartyII said:
No it doesn't.

Stop comparing homosexuality to acts that actually harm anyone. Its hurtful and hatefilled.

You have been decieved if you think that homosexuality doesn't hurt anyone. Apart from the AIDS epidemic among the homosexual population, we all know that it harms spiritually, more than anything, for it imbeds its perversity deep in one's soul, and becomes something that one barely recovers from. Why? Because with it, comes a seared conscience, and so remorse is blocked, thereby creating a major rift in any relationship there may have been with Jesus Christ.

Jesus is no longer on the throne of a life that is deceived by the spirit of homosexuality. The one on the throne is SELF.

God is nowhere near the throne. He will have something to say about that at Judgment.

I believe that the most harm is done to oneself in homosexuality...and that harm is eternal.

Jet_A_Jockey · Dec 3, 2007

EnemyPartyII said:
because its much easier to condemn homosexuals for being evil if you focus on their unnatural, dirty sex practices, rather than try to find anything logical to condemn in their loving, caring, supportive monogomous relationships

Are you once again implying that I'm trying to condemn anyone? Make me out to be the bad guy if you want, solely because of a difference in belief. My belief in the bible is logical. You make it seem as if you think that the only people who truly believe in the bible as God-inspired text are either sub-par with regard to intelligence or just closed-minded.

Jet_A_Jockey · Dec 3, 2007

Brieuse said:
It's a common last resort tactic. We have over the months given substantial unarguable evidence that the relationships and lives we live are no less valuable to God than the lives they claim God desires and they claim to live.

Last resort tactic? All the evidence that goes contrary to your side is passed off as either writer error or reader error. I don't think that everyone on this side has been putting their own personal lives on the showcase as a model for God's ideal relationship, I don't think that I have.

a. Their arguments do not have substance - appeal to emotion.

back at ya, your end is completely based on emotion also, it has nothing to do with the bible.

b. Their arguments are not biblical. To this date I have not seen one bible verse that outright condemns monogamous loving homosexual relationships.

it doesn't outright condemn pornography either, so that must be ok too , right? It doesn't even mention monolovhomrelations ( yes i made a new word!) at all, so of course it doesn't specifically condemn them, it only condemns every single same-sex action that is written within it.

c. Their arguments are normally filled with Paul Cameron type lies. Lying is not a virtue of a Christian.

Who is paul cameron? And who is lying?

Jet_A_Jockey · Dec 3, 2007

Ohioprof said:
Same-sex relationships are primarily love relationships, spousal relationships. Sex is often part of a spousal relationship, but it's only one part.

Why do you focus on sex and omit the love relationship, which is what spousal relationships are really about?

Hi prof,

Actually, if I recall correctly, I was pointing out that in no way are any same-sex actions ever held as blessed according to scripture. With that statement, i was replied to with a quote using david and johnathan as examples. And my reply to that is that I said same-sex sex, and we all know that it is never mentioned or alluded to that david and jonathan had any sort of sexual relationship.

Jet_A_Jockey · Dec 3, 2007

OllieFranz said:
While it is true that the Bible gives examples of only sinful same-sex sexual practices. But, at the same time, it gives examples of only sinful cross-sex sexual practices.

Let me stop you there. It gives a plethora of man-woman union examples, as well as the whole nature aspect in regards to procreation. For this reason a man shall leave his mother and father....etc, granted, this is not the only type of family model, but this definitely promotes heterosexual ones, does it not?

Blessed sex is treated as part of a private interaction between spouses. If it were not that we know, from nature, that conception occurs because of sex, we would have no basis for saying any sex is blessed.

How so? When God told Abraham that He would have a son with Sarah, was that not by His blessing? And this just strays from my point even farther, as my original reason for addressing the whole 'sex is blessed' thing anyway is because of the statements made that homosexual sex is blessed by God, yet I have yet to find anything but condemnations for it biblically.

Your argument falls.

If no one agrees with me, then sure

Floatingaxe · Dec 4, 2007

Jet_A_Jockey said:
Let me stop you there. It gives a plethora of man-woman union examples, as well as the whole nature aspect in regards to procreation. For this reason a man shall leave his mother and father....etc, granted, this is not the only type of family model, but this definitely promotes heterosexual ones, does it not?
How so? When God told Abraham that He would have a son with Sarah, was that not by His blessing? And this just strays from my point even farther, as my original reason for addressing the whole 'sex is blessed' thing anyway is because of the statements made that homosexual sex is blessed by God, yet I have yet to find anything but condemnations for it biblically.

If no one agrees with me, then sure

Millions of Christians the world over, past and present agree with you, my dear! The homosexual agenda has no argument but what is in the human mind. Nothing Scriptural can or will ever offer approval for homosexual behaviour.

God bless you.

Jet_A_Jockey · Dec 4, 2007

I just don't understand how its often brought up that we are attempting to condemn certain individuals based on our beliefs. My beliefs don't condemn people, they condemn actions. And furthermore to make it seem like this side of the debate is just a sporadic-out of the woodwork- movement to oppress a certain group of people is just ridiculous at best.

OllieFranz · Dec 4, 2007

OllieFranz said:
While it is true that the Bible gives examples of only sinful same-sex sexual practices. But, at the same time, it gives examples of only sinful cross-sex sexual practices.

Jet_A_Jockey said:
Let me stop you there. It gives a plethora of man-woman union examples, as well as the whole nature aspect in regards to procreation. For this reason a man shall leave his mother and father....etc, granted, this is not the only type of family model, but this definitely promotes heterosexual ones, does it not?

Yes, it does speak of blessed unions but not of the sex in those unions. And yes, we know that sex is the normal route for procreation. But that is the only way that we know that the Bible approves of sex when it is part of a loving, committed, covenanted relationship.

In fact, that was my whole point. The Bible does not invade the marriage bed. The only sex it describes, gay or straight, is sin, usually public sin.

OllieFranz said:
Blessed sex is treated as part of a private interaction between spouses. If it were not that we know, from nature, that conception occurs because of sex, we would have no basis for saying any sex is blessed.

Jet_A_Jockey said:
How so? When God told Abraham that He would have a son with Sarah, was that not by His blessing?

God said that He would bless their marriage with a son. He did not tell Abraham how to approach Sarah, when, or what to wear, etc. He respected the privacy of the marriage bed. Again, we assume that Isaac was concieved by a sexual act because every child (but One) is concieved by a sexual act, but the Bible is not pornography.

Jet_A_Jockey said:
And this just strays from my point even farther, as my original reason for addressing the whole 'sex is blessed' thing anyway is because of the statements made that homosexual sex is blessed by God, yet I have yet to find anything but condemnations for it biblically.

And if you were ignorant of the fact that conception is a result of heterosexual sex, you would not find anything but condemnations of any sex in the Bible.

OllieFranz said:
"Your argument falls.

Jet_A_Jockey said:
If no one agrees with me, then sure

A lot of fallacious arguments can persuade those who are already predisposed to believe the conclusion. That does not magically make them logically sound.

artybloke · Dec 5, 2007

Millions of Christians the world over, past and present agree with you, my dear!

And? If the church was wrong about slavery, why can't it be wrong about this? Funny, if this were a subject like evolution, you'd say that the fact that it is a majority opinion among Christians that evolution is how God created doesn't matter.

Once more, it's the fundamentalist arrogance of "our way or the highway" that it's all about. Well, your way is the way to hell.

Catholicon · Dec 5, 2007

artybloke said:
And? If the church was wrong about slavery, why can't it be wrong about this? Funny, if this were a subject like evolution, you'd say that the fact that it is a majority opinion among Christians that evolution is how God created doesn't matter.

Once more, it's the fundamentalist arrogance of "our way or the highway" that it's all about. Well, your way is the way to hell.

Floatingaxe · Dec 5, 2007

artybloke said:
Once more, it's the fundamentalist arrogance of "our way or the highway" that it's all about. Well, your way is the way to hell.

I am reading arrogance in what you proclaim. Your message is a message of doom. It leads the follower to eternal Hell.

Only Jesus saves.

LLWHA · Dec 6, 2007

EnemyPartyII said:
No it doesn't.

Stop comparing homosexuality to acts that actually harm anyone. Its hurtful and hatefilled.

They hurt themselves as they die very early, so they hurt others who they do this evil with as they will die early.

They can and do bring the rath of God down on nations that put up with this evil.

So again, history shows this sin kills and can be and is very hurtful to others.

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