Homosexuality vs Fornication???

Inviolable said:

Huh, the person with five post drops in to leave me this one post.

Click to expand...

Yeah, well Im a long time lurker and only an occassional poster, so you'll have to forgive me for occassionally just making comments

And the rest of your post- wow, what was that?
Ive read the entire thread already, so you don't need to try to 'explain' it to me with tutu wearing football player (or toilet drinking dogs) analogies.

B'alaam said:

Yeah, well Im a long time lurker and only an occassional poster, so you'll have to forgive me for occassionally just making comments

And the rest of your post- wow, what was that?
Ive read the entire thread already, so you don't need to try to 'explain' it to me with tutu wearing football player (or toilet drinking dogs) analogies.

Click to expand...

I do when the thread is turning out to be as funny as a tutu wearing football guy. My hope is to enlighten people.
Sadly, I feel that aint going to happen.

That dog thing was a little funny? Huh!? HUH!?

I wasn't going to respond to this post but then I reread this and simply couldn't help myself.

BigBadWlf said:

If you think lesbians sex is so great…why aren’t you a lesbian?

Click to expand...

Dude!..

BAWHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

You don't know why I'm laughing do you?

Robbie_James_Francis said:

I'm pretty scared by the idea that all 'sins' carry the same weight with 'God'. I can't say I'd get along with a being that would stand me and Hitler together and give us the same treatment. What sort of person does it take to think that a white lie ('no you don't look fat in those jeans') and cold-bloodedly slaughtering millions of people because of their race are even comparable, let alone equal?

Click to expand...

This is how I see it:

Greg Brady beats his wife because dinner isn't ready when he gets home. It's only the occassional bruise.

Peter Brady beats his wife, and has pushed her down the stairs once. She has had to be taken to the hospital a couple of times.

Bobby Brady says really harmful things to his wife, comments on her weight when she gains five pounds, tells her she's ugly, says he could do better, and jokes about how he is going to leave her for a younger woman. His wife cries, but he things she is too emotional.

Mike Brady cheats on his wife, but he's a guy, and guys have needs, so he sees nothing wrong with it.

Oliver sits on the house, does none of the housework, doesn't help with the kids, and regularly forgets their anniversary and her birthday, but expects a cake and a huge party on his own.


Now, can you "rank them" in order of good to bad husbands?
Or are all of them bad husbands?

Can Greg say, "Yeah, I slap my wife, but I don't break her arm, like Peter! That's just wrong!!!"?

Can Oliver say, "I show no love to my wife, but at least I don't cheat on her, like Mike!!"

Does any of this fly with you?

When one tries to say, "I'm not that bad compared to_______", does relativity really matter? Does that suddenly make them a better husband? Or are they trying to minimize their own inadequacies as bad husbands by pointing to someone else?

Buddhism teaches that one should be more concerned about the unpure thought than the unpure action. Christianity usually goes the other way. Sure, you thought about having an affair, set it up, were even going to meet her, but your wife came home, so, technically, you didn't really do anything wrong. Are you going to stop, since the thought and desire is still there, and the thought and desire is considered innocent, apart from the action?

Buddhism, on the other hand, would have you first look at the thought. Why are you thinking about cheating on your wife. Thought leads to word, and word to deed, but by taking the weed by the root, rather than simply plucking off the dandelion flower, you prevent the word and deed from ever coming into existence.

All of the Brady's could say, "Hey, I cheat on my wife, have put her in the hospital, and don't show her love, but it's not like I killed 6 million Jews, so it's not that bad, right?"

How do you answer?

My best guess, as a laymen. Is that homosexuality is NOT a choice. I based this on the information I have to go on as to why I am heterosexual. I can remember being in fairly early grade school and liking girls. And I definitely do not remember a day sitting at lunch playing wallball or kickball and going..yeah today I think I am making the choice, I am going to like girls. I just did. Simple as that. To a similar degree I don't remember being attracted to girls with very very short hair. There's just something about it that entices me.

While interestingly enough I've never brought up the question to gay friends. I can't think of any logical reason why it should be different for them.

I'm just glad my upbringing allowed me to be free of prejudice against gay people. I remember one time while I lived in Mempho sitting at a CK's eating some late night breakfast with a bunch of friends when a friend of ours who is gay came in with a friend. They sat and the one I knew came over later to chat with us and mentioned to me that his friend thought I was cute. I was able to be politely decline and that was that. No biggie, no fuss no muss. It bothers me to know if I had been raised differently. I could been some jerk about all that.

Inviolable said:

Huh, the person with five post drops in to leave me this one post.

I don't know man. Cantata didn't seem to know if homosexuality was a choice or not but knew right away that bisexuality was.

Here I'll give another long and drawn out example of how the entire conversation went. Only to help give you an over view of what I was trying to do. The topic has nothing to do with the OP but will highlight exactly how our conversation took place. It will also not represent any of the people involved in anyway. Other then to show how the conversation went.

As I said, I'm bipolar. Last emotional meltdown I had was roughly ten years ago. I don't know if you've ever suffered through manic depression, let me assure it sux.
I calmly took myself to the psych ward and because I was calm they didn't strap me to a gurney. They did give me a juice box and ask me to wait until they contacted my doctor. I'm laying on the gurney looking up at the ceiling, more like through it at the stars outside in my mind. Thinking this sux and I need to see the shrink soon. Suddenly they brought in this girl who was screaming her head off. NO! over and over again.
She was cute, have to admit. As her sobbing yelps of NO! got louder and louder the staff was rushing to get something, anything to calm her down.
I sat up and looked her in the eye from across the room. I wanted her pain to stop even though my pain felt almost out of control.
She seen me and stopped yelling and stared back into my eyes. Calm.

You know what happened? She gained understanding.
She seen the pain in my eyes and knew she wasn't alone. Someone felt as bad or almost as bad as she did. Someone else knew what she was going through and she seen that.
Thats all it takes in this world for people to get along. Understanding.
Thats what my post was about.

Click to expand...

Seems more like your posts are about justifying your own personal prejudices.

Did you choose to be bi-polar?

You are implying that gays and lesbians somehow chose (though I notice you aren’t actually honest enough to answer the direct question about your belief in “choice”)

Then, suddenly. A gay guy in a pink football uniform and a tutu runs into the room, slams a football down onto the floor and yells, Touchdown!
The gay guy then yells out, all right people ... People! Gather round, everyone gather round. I don't want to have to say this twice!
This adversity thing is really bringing me down. Sooo! We're going to have to change all that. No more independent thought. Everyone! YooWoo! Yes hello? Everyone!
From now on everyone is going to have to think like me. I would really rather enjoy getting married. So from now on just don't rationalize stuff.
Seriously! I don't have the time or patients to make you understand, so here are some words I need you all to remember.
Preference, interest and gay!

Click to expand...

Lovely. I can only assume you have some stereotyped based descriptions of blacks or Hispanics or Jews as well.

Thats how the conversation went, not representing anyone. Just an example of what happened.
Now this next example is how it looked. Once again I am in no way shape or form trying to compare anyone to this example. I am simply saying how it looked. I'm going to use dogs, but I do not think in the least that anyone here is a dog.

There are two dogs with two different owners. Both dogs are given smart pills. One dog is rational and understanding. The other dog is in denial and is in no way willing to cope with reality.
The rational dog takes his pill and suddenly says...
Man, the toilet bowl. Really I had no idea what you guys used it for. I apologize, I feel so ashamed. I always ever knew that the water was cool and refreshing. I really really had no idea you guys defecated in there.
Oh man! the liter box! Oh my gosh that wasn't just a crunchy nugget. You know? like a candy bar. I had no idea it was cat poop. Oh man I need mouth wash. Hey, Hey! You got any mouth wash?
That dogs owner then does the following. *pats the dog on the head*
Good boy! You're such a good boy! Here, here's some mouth wash. We're going to the store later. Would you like to come along and pick out what you want for dinner and maybe later you can choose what gender you want to marry.

Click to expand...

Well if one can’t justify prejudice against a minority then by all means compare that minority to an animal.

Now the dog in denial takes his pill.
Well, you see... I have developed a highly heightened sense of personal preference for the toilet bowl and as a result I really have to drink the toilet water. The waters cool and refreshing and it makes my nose tingle.
Oh man. Toilet water, I think I'll have some right now.
By the way I have also grown a very high and sensitive likeness for cat poo. So please ignore the fact that I eat it and that I will more then likely be eating my own poo later.
That dogs owner does the following.

Bad dog! No gay marriage for you! And hits him on the nose with a news paper.

Click to expand...

And violence….again wonderful

Inviolable said:

Read post #78.

Thank you!

Click to expand...

Did that. You didn’t answer the question

No, my pastor is consistent: he decries both homosexuals and fornicators. He has no problem with Christian soldiers blasting innocent Iraqis in an unjust war, however.

Inviolable said:

I don't know man. Cantata didn't seem to know if homosexuality was a choice or not but knew right away that bisexuality was.

Click to expand...

Cantata knows that she chose her sexual orientation. She doesn't know or comment on whether any particular other people, of whatever orientation, did. But she happens to think that she's not the only person in the whole wide world who chose. (That'd make her special and possibly also magic, and she suspects she isn't.)

Hey, guess what? Not everyone's the same! I know it's hard to believe, but some people come by their sexual orientation in different ways from other people! Try not to let it melt your brain.

cantata said:

Cantata knows that she chose her sexual orientation. She doesn't know or comment on whether any particular other people, of whatever orientation, did. But she happens to think that she's not the only person in the whole wide world who chose. (That'd make her special and possibly also magic, and she suspects she isn't.)

Hey, guess what? Not everyone's the same! I know it's hard to believe, but some people come by their sexual orientation in different ways from other people! Try not to let it melt your brain.

Click to expand...

I'd go with special and magic.

As for sidhe, sidhe is pansexual, genderqueer, special, and magic. sidhe chose none of these. sidhe can make your spine glow.

All this third-person just reminds me of my dad's annoying cousin...he talks in third-person, and it makes me want to smack him.

cantata said:

Cantata knows that she chose her sexual orientation. She doesn't know or comment on whether any particular other people, of whatever orientation, did. But she happens to think that she's not the only person in the whole wide world who chose. (That'd make her special and possibly also magic, and she suspects she isn't.)

Hey, guess what? Not everyone's the same! I know it's hard to believe, but some people come by their sexual orientation in different ways from other people! Try not to let it melt your brain.

Click to expand...

O.K. One last try.

This is why I say you sound confused.
How do you know you chose?
If you use the same logic, from the standpoint that some people can not help but be who they are.
You're "choice" was only the direct result of you not having to be forced to be heterosexual.

It's like saying you have brown eyes and one day decided to have blue eyes. It cant be done. On a more realistic level.
In actuality, you were always bisexual.

sidhe said:

I'd go with special and magic.

Click to expand...

D'aw, thanks.

sidhe said:

As for sidhe, sidhe is pansexual, genderqueer, special, and magic. sidhe chose none of these. sidhe can make your spine glow.

Click to expand...

Rawr!

sidhe said:

All this third-person just reminds me of my dad's annoying cousin...he talks in third-person, and it makes me want to smack him.

Click to expand...

Sorry, sorry. It's just that I was being talked about like I wasn't here!

Inviolable said:

O.K. One last try.

This is why I say you sound confused.
How do you know you chose?

Click to expand...

Because I was there?

It's quite personal, and I'd prefer not to get into a massive discussion about it, but here's the general gist of my experience. At about 9pm on 13th January 2001, I decided I would be attracted to women. It took three years for me to actually be attracted to women without having to look women and remind myself to be attracted to them. Three years of doing that taught me to see things that are attractive about women. I have now had sexual and romantic relationships with women and am slightly more attracted to them than to men.

If you want to know my reasons, I would prefer to discuss them in a PM, because I've been through it enough times on these forums to know that it pees a lot of people off, and I don't want to do it publicly all over again.

Inviolable said:

If you use the same logic, from the standpoint that some people can not help but be who they are.
You're "choice" was only the direct result of you not having to be forced to be heterosexual.

Click to expand...

I'm quite comfortable with the idea that some people can't help who they are. Not everyone's the same. No, I wasn't forced to be heterosexual, but I certainly started out that way. I never had a sexual thought about women until 13th January 2001.

Inviolable said:

It's like saying you have brown eyes and one day decided to have blue eyes. It cant be done.

Click to expand...

Says you. I don't think you have any right to tell me what my experience was. You seem to be under the misguided impression that you've thought about this more than me. I assure you, it was never far from my mind for most of my teenage years. Unsurprisingly, it was rather important to me. And it is only in the last couple of years that I have begun to admit that I did choose it, that it didn't just happen to me. It was actually difficult and painful to do so because of the insistence from the queer community that sexuality is in-born and fixed.

Inviolable said:

On a more realistic level.
In actuality, you were always bisexual.

Click to expand...

Excuse me, but that's none of your business to say. I was not always bisexual. It took a lot of work for me to become attracted to women, in the same way that it took a lot of work for me to start enjoying the music of Radiohead. I had to "study" both women and Radiohead, to look for things about each that could be appealing to me aesthetically and emotionally. It was an enormously active process on my part. It absolutely did not just happen to me.

cantata said:

I'm quite comfortable with the idea that some people can't help who they are. Not everyone's the same. No, I wasn't forced to be heterosexual, but I certainly started out that way. I never had a sexual thought about women until 13th January 2001.



Says you. I don't think you have any right to tell me what my experience was. You seem to be under the misguided impression that you've thought about this more than me. I assure you, it was never far from my mind for most of my teenage years. Unsurprisingly, it was rather important to me. And it is only in the last couple of years that I have begun to admit that I did choose it, that it didn't just happen to me. It was actually difficult and painful to do so because of the insistence from the queer community that sexuality is in-born and fixed.



Excuse me, but that's none of your business to say. I was not always bisexual. It took a lot of work for me to become attracted to women, in the same way that it took a lot of work for me to start enjoying the music of Radiohead. I had to "study" both women and Radiohead, to look for things about each that could be appealing to me aesthetically and emotionally. It was an enormously active process on my part. It absolutely did not just happen to me.

Click to expand...

Wow! I don't mean any disrespect and I truly mean it when I say, that is the coolest post I've ever seen. Would you mind if I copied it and quoted from it?
More importantly this part.
"And it is only in the last couple of years that I have begun to admit that I did choose it, that it didn't just happen to me. It was actually difficult and painful to do so because of the insistence from the queer community that sexuality is in-born and fixed."

For no other reason then I can respect what you've said and that it sounds as if you're being completely honest with yourself. Would I want to quote what you've said.

There's nothing wrong with two (or more?) consenting adults giving each other pleasure in privacy.

There's nothing wrong with two (or more?) consenting adults giving each other pleasure in privacy.

Click to expand...

Apparently an omnipotent being gets all tied up in knots over that.

Closing for review.

Athene said:

Closing for review.

Click to expand...

Mod Hat On

Thread reopend

I have deleted several posts from this thread for quoting edited/and or deleted post(s). I did not send individual PMs so if your post is missing it was part of the thread clean-up. Please try not to respond to rule violations and just report the posts.

Thanks!

Mod Hat Off

SiderealExalt said:

Apparently an omnipotent being gets all tied up in knots over that.

Click to expand...

I think it far more likely that the people who want to please an omnipotent being are the ones getting "all tied up in knots".

If God didn't want homosexuality to exist, it wouldn't. Obviously, it isn't God who has an issue with it, just some of His followers...

WatersMoon110 said:

I think it far more likely that the people who want to please an omnipotent being are the ones getting "all tied up in knots".

If God didn't want homosexuality to exist, it wouldn't. Obviously, it isn't God who has an issue with it, just some of His followers...

Click to expand...

GOD allows some things to exist. GOD allows murder to exist. Cain murdered his wonderful brother Abel. GOD allowed it; however, GOD seems to have been trying to teach Cain something rather than trying to have Abel killed... The very same goes for all sins. GOD allows sins to happen. GOD doesn't bless sin, but HE can forgive sin through the precious blood of the LORD JESUS CHRIST! GOD is looking to save homosexuals too. HE cannot do that by annihilating them, just induce them to repent. Time will tell in the lives of some...