Homosexuality - Here I stand.

LightHorseman · Feb 11, 2009

david_x said:
I meant no insult to the Jewish people, I only meant that Dr. Schlessinger's Jewish philosophy was not Christian philosophy.

Dr (and I use the term loosely) Schlessinger is not exactly the best example of consistent morality to look to for guidance. However, even though she is a self proclaimed orthodox Jew, the Leviticus 18.22 canard is quite often the first thing the anti-homosexual Christian will reach for when questioned about homosexuality, and I think the points raised about the other Levitical silliness that show how silly it is for "Dr. Laura" to cite Lev 18.22 without regard to context or contemporary ethics are equally applicable to Christians who make the same errors.

one11 · Feb 11, 2009

Rudolph Hucker said:
What makes you think that the US resident was a Jewish woman? If 18:22 is an abomination to (some) Jews is it not an equal abomination to (some) Christians?

Was Christ not a Jewish man?

How about the questions posed by the resident?

I've seen that trick before posted on Christian forums and didn't think it worth my time to answer. It's been circulating for years, and I do not believe was originally written to Dr. Laura at all period.

Doh, we don't sacrifice animals because Jesus became that. doh Read the NT.

Gentiles are released from having to look outwardly Jewish, including even circumcision. doh Read the NT.

Exodus is not the law. doh

Do I need to go on?

LightHorseman · Feb 11, 2009

one11 said:
I've seen that trick before posted on Christian forums and didn't think it worth my time to answer. It's been circulating for years, and I do not believe was originally written to Dr. Laura at all period.

Doh, we don't sacrifice animals because Jesus became that. doh Read the NT.

Gentiles are released from having to look outwardly Jewish, including even circumcision. doh Read the NT.

Exodus is not the law. doh

Do I need to go on?

Indeed, Exodux is NOT the law, so why do anti-homosexual Christians insist on citing it to prop up their villification of homosexuals?

one11 · Feb 11, 2009

LightHorseman said:
Indeed, Exodux is NOT the law, so why do anti-homosexual Christians insist on citing it to prop up their villification of homosexuals?

The book of Exodus does not discuss homosexuality. That's Leviticus.

LightHorseman · Feb 11, 2009

one11 said:
The book of Exodus does not discuss homosexuality. That's Leviticus.

You are pedantic but quite correct. But Leviticus isn't the law either. (Oh, and there is a great deal of sound academic work claiming that Leviticus doesn't actually discuss homosexuality, per ce, either, but rather a highlky specific form of temple prostitution. But thats for another time.)

one11 · Feb 11, 2009

LightHorseman said:
You are pedantic but quite correct. But Leviticus isn't the law either. (Oh, and there is a great deal of sound academic work claiming that Leviticus doesn't actually discuss homosexuality, per ce, either, but rather a highlky specific form of temple prostitution. But thats for another time.)

Yes Leviticus is the law that's why it's called "the Levitical Law" or the "law of Leviticus" or the "law contained in Leviticus".

What do you think your Priest is reading when he does this he's reading a news paper and sprinkling incense on the Sunday newspaper or what?

Polycarp1 · Feb 11, 2009

Well, let's see -- the Ten Commandments are in Exodus 20. That means, obviously, they're not the law.

Or else that someone doesn't know what she's talking about.

Also, the Law is fulfilled[/i\ in Christ, freeing His followers from whatever allegiance they may have had to it, and substituting for it His commandments -- which are pretty simple to state, and tough to follow.

one11 · Feb 11, 2009

My recent point about Exodus is in relation to post #615. Please read the thread. duh

LightHorseman · Feb 11, 2009

one11 said:
Yes Leviticus is the law that's why it's called "the Levitical Law" or the "law of Leviticus" or the "law contained in Leviticus".

What do you think your Priest is reading when he does this he's reading a news paper and sprinkling incense on the Sunday newspaper or what?

Its not my law. I'm not Jewish.

one11 · Feb 11, 2009

LightHorseman said:
Its not my law. I'm not Jewish.

So then you don't need the Ten Commandments either. Those were given to the Jewish people.

Don't you read the Bible. Do you understand the prophesies in the OT? Abraham? Joseph in the OT? Anything?

Catholics put Mary up on such a high pedestal, but she came from the lineage of the first Joseph, son of Jacob? Haven't you read anything?

Muttering like this without understanding is enough for you?

Look I've studied Catholicism and it relies heavily on the OT, especially about Mary.

So you may be an odd Catholic man out so to speak or else you just read slanted websites full of propaganda instead of reading and studying the Bible itself and/or what your own religion is even about.

LightHorseman · Feb 11, 2009

So then you don't need the Ten Commandments either. Those were given to the Jewish people.

Technically speaking? No. I don't need them. I try to live by Christ's new commandments, which happen to cover everything in the 10 commandments, and more besides.

Don't you read the Bible. Do you understand the prophesies in the OT? Abraham? Joseph in the OT? Anything?

What about them? Doesn't make slavish observance of one out of context verse in Leviticus any more reasonbable, does it?

Catholics put Mary up on such a high pedestal, but she came from the lineage of the first Joseph, son of Jacob? Haven't you read anything?

Your point being?

Muttering like this without understanding is enough for you?

What's with the Catholic bashing? Hey, I seek to UNDERSTAND everything I think about my relationship with God. I have yet to encounter anyone who UNDERSTANDS why homosexuality is wrong, other than blindly muttering verses from Leviticus and Paul without UNDERSTANDING them. Is that enough for YOU?

So you may be an odd Catholic man out so to speak or else you just read slanted websites full of propaganda instead of reading and studying the Bible itself and/or what your own religion is even about.

Because any website (God forbid the opposition may actually read BOOKS!) that disagrees with your a priori views is, ipso facto, slanted? As for my religion, my religion is about following Christ. Thats what I do. Thats what I try to do each and every day. I don't always succeed, I freely admit, but I tell you this sincerely, I am utterly convinced that standing up for homosexuals, here and elsewhere, is something Christ wants ALL of us to do.

one11 · Feb 11, 2009

LightHorseman said:
Technically speaking? No. I don't need them. I try to live by Christ's new commandments, which happen to cover everything in the 10 commandments, and more besides.What about them? Doesn't make slavish observance of one out of context verse in Leviticus any more reasonbable, does it?Your point being?What's with the Catholic bashing? Hey, I seek to UNDERSTAND everything I think about my relationship with God. I have yet to encounter anyone who UNDERSTANDS why homosexuality is wrong, other than blindly muttering verses from Leviticus and Paul without UNDERSTANDING them. Is that enough for YOU?Because any website (God forbid the opposition may actually read BOOKS!) that disagrees with your a priori views is, ipso facto, slanted? As for my religion, my religion is about following Christ. Thats what I do. Thats what I try to do each and every day. I don't always succeed, I freely admit, but I tell you this sincerely, I am utterly convinced that standing up for homosexuals, here and elsewhere, is something Christ wants ALL of us to do.

If you didn't have the OT, you wouldn't have the Ten Commandments!

LightHorseman · Feb 11, 2009

one11 said:
If you didn't have the OT, you wouldn't have the Ten Commandments!

I never suggested getting rid of the OT. I never said the 10 commandments are without merit. I merely point out that they have been made obsolete by Christ's new commandments.

None of this semantic tapdancery addresses why people, both Christian and Jewish, feel that Lev 18.22 is the one Levitical Law that should still be enforced, while the rest are quaint examples of ancient tribal law that no one in their right mind should take seriously.

one11 · Feb 11, 2009

Also, LH, if you don't believe in the OT apocryphal texts you are excommunicated from the Catholic church, did you know that?

I was wondering because your signature says something negative about the apocrypha (which is part of the OT), so how can you take communion if you are excommunicated?

one11 · Feb 11, 2009

LightHorseman said:
I never suggested getting rid of the OT. I never said the 10 commandments are without merit. I merely point out that they have been made obsolete by Christ's new commandments.

None of this semantic tapdancery addresses why people, both Christian and Jewish, feel that Lev 18.22 is the one Levitical Law that should still be enforced, while the rest are quaint examples of ancient tribal law that no one in their right mind should take seriously.

God was teaching us how to stay alive. You don't understand the reasons for the cleanliness laws, yet you are a nurse?

Have you ever studied the magnificent brilliance of the Levitical law and medicine in relation to diet, disease and human health?

LightHorseman · Feb 11, 2009

one11 said:
Also, LH, if you don't believe in the OT apocryphal texts you are excommunicated from the Catholic church, did you know that?

I was wondering because your signature says something negative about the apocrypha (which is part of the OT), so how can you take communion if you are excommunicated?

What the heck are you gibbering about? I never said anything about not believing in the OT, apocryphal or otherwise. Address the OP, rather than opining on my level of genuine Catholicism please. I mean, if you really want a discussion about whether I am Catholic or not, feel free to start a new thread, but not here.

LightHorseman · Feb 11, 2009

one11 said:
God was teaching us how to stay alive. You don't understand the reasons for the cleanliness laws, yet you are a nurse?

Have you ever studied the magnificent brilliance of the Levitical law and medicine in relation to diet, disease and human health?

Indeed I have. And now that we know about pasteurisation, refrigeration, and bacteria, I am sure you will agree that, while facinating, the Levitical food cleanliness laws are no longer relevant. Well, I'm sure that Levitical laws against homosexuality (if thats what they are) had a reason in their correct time and place. That time and place is not the post industrialised West, and therefore the Levitical proscription of homosexuality (if thats what it is) needs to be as re-evaluated as the Levitical proscription against shellfish.

one11 · Feb 11, 2009

LightHorseman said:
What the heck are you gibbering about? I never said anything about not believing in the OT, apocryphal or otherwise. Address the OP, rather than opining on my level of genuine Catholicism please. I mean, if you really want a discussion about whether I am Catholic or not, feel free to start a new thread, but not here.

So you just believe in the apocrypha then which Catholic.org says is NOT the word of God but is legend. So you believe in the legend only then of the apocrypha?

That makes sense.

LightHorseman · Feb 11, 2009

one11 said:
So you just believe in the apocrypha then which Catholic.org says is NOT the word of God but is legend. So you believe in the legend only then of the apocrypha?

That makes sense.

Serious whiskey tango factor. I never said any of what you are saying I'm saying.

Polycarp1 · Feb 11, 2009

One11 -- you are making up anti-Catholic allegations having nothing to do with the topic of this thread. Further, you've given clear evidence you have no idea what Jesus meant by 'the Law and the Prophets'. I believe your attack on Light Horseman's Christianity is contrary to forum rules, and in any event is clearly off topic. I am requesting that you get back on topic, rather than involving staff in reports and such.

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