Help with 1 John 4:2-3, Discerning the spirits of God or demons

BelieverofTheTruth · Apr 16, 2020

My question is about 1 John 4:2 and 1 John 4:3 and determining which spirits are from God and which are not. I do not know for sure but it sounds like those scriptures mean that when you ask a spirit if it confesses that Jesus Christ came in the flesh that if it confesses that Jesus did come in the flesh that it is from God but if it says no then it is not from God. And therefore a demon.

I am a saved repentant believer but have had major problems with demons bothering me for a long time. I am used to demons speaking to me but i have been confident that it is God speaking to me at times in his own ways. God usually hasn't communicated verbally like demons but uses other ways. Sometimes, though, it is unclear who is who when a message isn't obviously from God or a demon when I'm verbally or telepathically spoken to.

So a few months ago I used 1 John 4:2-3 to ask a voice that spoke to me if it confessed that Jesus Christ came in the flesh and a demon said 'yes it does', which threw me way off because that scripture tells me they're not supposed to be able to do that. I then determined that a demon said yes multiple times when i asked multiple times because it said so in a demonic malevolent voice and went on to continue speaking evil malevolent demonic things. So this is a huge problem for me because that undermines my faith in scripture if it can't be relied on consistently and it undermines my faith in Jesus greatly, unfortunately. And I've seen a very wide variety of manifestation of demons and need a way to determine what is from God and what isn't. My friend says because of my experience with demons i will one day be able to discern the spirits real well. But right now i have a huge dilemma.

By the way, starting a few months before I became a Christian, I have basically witnessed every sort of paranormal activity except for ghosts. I don't believe in ghosts, though. And I continue to be spoken to and harassed by evil spirits, though things have improved from what they once were.

This new dilemma is made worse because once, years ago, the one true God of the Bible let me know it was truly Him so i knew it wasn't demons that time when I asked Him twice and He confessed twice that Jesus Christ came in the flesh. So He used this method to confirm it was Him before, so why did it not work more recently? He spoke to me in a friendly sweet audible voice telling me I wasn't going to Hell because demons back then put me in constant fear of going to Hell back then for any misstep I made when I didn't understand the bible well and didn't know grace and forgiveness. After this interaction with God I got a prophecy about my bright future in the Kingdom of God at a church and then went on to experience Gods perfect timing and his obvious hand in my life multiple times per hour all day every day for months in a row. It was a huge relief then and the closest period of time I've ever had with God.

So why did that sweet audible voice confess Christ came in the flesh to show me He was God if later in my experience demons can do the same thing? That undermines that whole multi-month experience with God that was so magical as well as my faith in Jesus and the reliability of scripture, itself. So i wanted to know what people think about this confusing experience and about 1 John 4:2-3. I am very serious about this and I know it might be a difficult question so please bear with me.

Finally, I would like to know if I could be recommended to any other good Christian message boards where other people can take a crack at my question? With this particular conundrum, I feel the more answers I get, the better.

Thanks for everyone's replies in advance.

faroukfarouk · Apr 16, 2020

BelieverofTheTruth said:
My question is about 1 John 4:2 and 1 John 4:3 and determining which spirits are from God and which are not. I do not know for sure but it sounds like those scriptures mean that when you ask a spirit if it confesses that Jesus Christ came in the flesh that if it confesses that Jesus did come in the flesh that it is from God but if it says no then it is not from God. And therefore a demon.

I am a saved repentant believer but have had major problems with demons bothering me for a long time. I am used to demons speaking to me but i have been confident that it is God speaking to me at times in his own ways. God usually hasn't communicated verbally like demons but uses other ways. Sometimes, though, it is unclear who is who when a message isn't obviously from God or a demon when I'm verbally or telepathically spoken to.

So a few months ago I used 1 John 4:2-3 to ask a voice that spoke to me if it confessed that Jesus Christ came in the flesh and a demon said 'yes it does', which threw me way off because that scripture tells me they're not supposed to be able to do that. I then determined that a demon said yes multiple times when i asked multiple times because it said so in a demonic malevolent voice and went on to continue speaking evil malevolent demonic things. So this is a huge problem for me because that undermines my faith in scripture if it can't be relied on consistently and it undermines my faith in Jesus greatly, unfortunately. And I've seen a very wide variety of manifestation of demons and need a way to determine what is from God and what isn't. My friend says because of my experience with demons i will one day be able to discern the spirits real well. But right now i have a huge dilemma.

By the way, starting a few months before I became a Christian, I have basically witnessed every sort of paranormal activity except for ghosts. I don't believe in ghosts, though. And I continue to be spoken to and harassed by evil spirits, though things have improved from what they once were.

This new dilemma is made worse because once, years ago, the one true God of the Bible let me know it was truly Him so i knew it wasn't demons that time when I asked Him twice and He confessed twice that Jesus Christ came in the flesh. So He used this method to confirm it was Him before, so why did it not work more recently? He spoke to me in a friendly sweet audible voice telling me I wasn't going to Hell because demons back then put me in constant fear of going to Hell back then for any misstep I made when I didn't understand the bible well and didn't know grace and forgiveness. After this interaction with God I got a prophecy about my bright future in the Kingdom of God at a church and then went on to experience Gods perfect timing and his obvious hand in my life multiple times per hour all day every day for months in a row. It was a huge relief then and the closest period of time I've ever had with God.

So why did that sweet audible voice confess Christ came in the flesh to show me He was God if later in my experience demons can do the same thing? That undermines that whole multi-month experience with God that was so magical as well as my faith in Jesus and the reliability of scripture, itself. So i wanted to know what people think about this confusing experience and about 1 John 4:2-3. I am very serious about this and I know it might be a difficult question so please bear with me.

Hi; it's good to remember the principle behind 1 Corinthians 10.25: "Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils."

Once a believer is truly cleansed and redeemed, demons have no power over that believer's soul, because 'greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world' (1 John 4.4).

The believer has the privilege instead of keeping 'looking unto Jesus' (Hebrews 12.2).

Oldmantook · Apr 16, 2020

BelieverofTheTruth said:
My question is about 1 John 4:2 and 1 John 4:3 and determining which spirits are from God and which are not. I do not know for sure but it sounds like those scriptures mean that when you ask a spirit if it confesses that Jesus Christ came in the flesh that if it confesses that Jesus did come in the flesh that it is from God but if it says no then it is not from God. And therefore a demon.

I am a saved repentant believer but have had major problems with demons bothering me for a long time. I am used to demons speaking to me but i have been confident that it is God speaking to me at times in his own ways. God usually hasn't communicated verbally like demons but uses other ways. Sometimes, though, it is unclear who is who when a message isn't obviously from God or a demon when I'm verbally or telepathically spoken to.

So a few months ago I used 1 John 4:2-3 to ask a voice that spoke to me if it confessed that Jesus Christ came in the flesh and a demon said 'yes it does', which threw me way off because that scripture tells me they're not supposed to be able to do that. I then determined that a demon said yes multiple times when i asked multiple times because it said so in a demonic malevolent voice and went on to continue speaking evil malevolent demonic things. So this is a huge problem for me because that undermines my faith in scripture if it can't be relied on consistently and it undermines my faith in Jesus greatly, unfortunately. And I've seen a very wide variety of manifestation of demons and need a way to determine what is from God and what isn't. My friend says because of my experience with demons i will one day be able to discern the spirits real well. But right now i have a huge dilemma.

By the way, starting a few months before I became a Christian, I have basically witnessed every sort of paranormal activity except for ghosts. I don't believe in ghosts, though. And I continue to be spoken to and harassed by evil spirits, though things have improved from what they once were.

This new dilemma is made worse because once, years ago, the one true God of the Bible let me know it was truly Him so i knew it wasn't demons that time when I asked Him twice and He confessed twice that Jesus Christ came in the flesh. So He used this method to confirm it was Him before, so why did it not work more recently? He spoke to me in a friendly sweet audible voice telling me I wasn't going to Hell because demons back then put me in constant fear of going to Hell back then for any misstep I made when I didn't understand the bible well and didn't know grace and forgiveness. After this interaction with God I got a prophecy about my bright future in the Kingdom of God at a church and then went on to experience Gods perfect timing and his obvious hand in my life multiple times per hour all day every day for months in a row. It was a huge relief then and the closest period of time I've ever had with God.

So why did that sweet audible voice confess Christ came in the flesh to show me He was God if later in my experience demons can do the same thing? That undermines that whole multi-month experience with God that was so magical as well as my faith in Jesus and the reliability of scripture, itself. So i wanted to know what people think about this confusing experience and about 1 John 4:2-3. I am very serious about this and I know it might be a difficult question so please bear with me.

Perhaps this understanding may help you decide. The context of 1 John 4:2-3 refers to the heresy of Gnosticism which taught that Jesus did not come in the flesh. From the Forerunner Commentary:
"The end of the first century witnessed many heretical teachings. One of these heresies, Gnosticism, taught that Jesus Christ was not really a flesh-and-blood human being but a spirit that was manifested as a human being. This was undoubtedly one of the things John was alluding to when he wrote these verses."
Notice that verse 1 refers to "false prophets" which leads me to believe that 1 Jn 4:2-3 refers not to demonic spirits but to men who are false teachers/false prophets who have the spirit of antichrist because they teach Gnosticism which is contrary to the teachings of the Bible. Thus verses 2-3 are meant to be a test to determine what these men (not demons) truly believe which is Gnostic belief.
1 John 4:2 (KJV) - Forerunner Commentary

Amittai · Apr 16, 2020

Here are a few thoughts I'm basing partly on Pawson (adding my own embroiderments ) to complement insights you're already gaining:

In I Jn, 1:1-2:11 are about life and light. 3:11-5:21 are about love and life.

I wonder if "Jesus Christ has come in the flesh" isn't (in part) shorthand for the fruits of Holy Spirit powered Christian living in His people: potentising the gift of our fellow adopted widows & orphans in Father's firm.

(John like James, writes in circular style.)

"Cleverly" one doesn't necessarily overtly claim Jesus didn't live or that He wasn't "somehow" "God" or something. Mystique can clothe controlling behaviours on the part of the "superapostles" whom Paul knew so well (and whom I have met in person ).

You and I and others swim in our individual element and can thus complement each other!

Aussie Pete · Apr 16, 2020

BelieverofTheTruth said:
My question is about 1 John 4:2 and 1 John 4:3 and determining which spirits are from God and which are not. I do not know for sure but it sounds like those scriptures mean that when you ask a spirit if it confesses that Jesus Christ came in the flesh that if it confesses that Jesus did come in the flesh that it is from God but if it says no then it is not from God. And therefore a demon.

I am a saved repentant believer but have had major problems with demons bothering me for a long time. I am used to demons speaking to me but i have been confident that it is God speaking to me at times in his own ways. God usually hasn't communicated verbally like demons but uses other ways. Sometimes, though, it is unclear who is who when a message isn't obviously from God or a demon when I'm verbally or telepathically spoken to.

So a few months ago I used 1 John 4:2-3 to ask a voice that spoke to me if it confessed that Jesus Christ came in the flesh and a demon said 'yes it does', which threw me way off because that scripture tells me they're not supposed to be able to do that. I then determined that a demon said yes multiple times when i asked multiple times because it said so in a demonic malevolent voice and went on to continue speaking evil malevolent demonic things. So this is a huge problem for me because that undermines my faith in scripture if it can't be relied on consistently and it undermines my faith in Jesus greatly, unfortunately. And I've seen a very wide variety of manifestation of demons and need a way to determine what is from God and what isn't. My friend says because of my experience with demons i will one day be able to discern the spirits real well. But right now i have a huge dilemma.

By the way, starting a few months before I became a Christian, I have basically witnessed every sort of paranormal activity except for ghosts. I don't believe in ghosts, though. And I continue to be spoken to and harassed by evil spirits, though things have improved from what they once were.

This new dilemma is made worse because once, years ago, the one true God of the Bible let me know it was truly Him so i knew it wasn't demons that time when I asked Him twice and He confessed twice that Jesus Christ came in the flesh. So He used this method to confirm it was Him before, so why did it not work more recently? He spoke to me in a friendly sweet audible voice telling me I wasn't going to Hell because demons back then put me in constant fear of going to Hell back then for any misstep I made when I didn't understand the bible well and didn't know grace and forgiveness. After this interaction with God I got a prophecy about my bright future in the Kingdom of God at a church and then went on to experience Gods perfect timing and his obvious hand in my life multiple times per hour all day every day for months in a row. It was a huge relief then and the closest period of time I've ever had with God.

So why did that sweet audible voice confess Christ came in the flesh to show me He was God if later in my experience demons can do the same thing? That undermines that whole multi-month experience with God that was so magical as well as my faith in Jesus and the reliability of scripture, itself. So i wanted to know what people think about this confusing experience and about 1 John 4:2-3. I am very serious about this and I know it might be a difficult question so please bear with me.

Saying yes to a question is one thing. Ask it to say that Jesus is God, that Jesus is Lord and God in the flesh. I've not had to do this myself but I know someone who has. He said that the demon could not get the words out.

If there is a disconnect between the word of God and our experience, then there is something out of line in our experience. God's word cannot fail. Our understanding can be flawed.

paul1149 · Apr 16, 2020

BelieverofTheTruth said:
a few months ago I used 1 John 4:2-3 to ask a voice that spoke to me if it confessed that Jesus Christ came in the flesh and a demon said 'yes it does',

This reminds me of Bill Clinton's infamous parsing of words, "That depends on what the meaning of 'is" is". Did the spirit ever say, "yes, I do"? You may have to be very direct.

I agree that this passage is in reference to the Gnosticism of the day. You may have to adjust the probing to whatever particular issue is in question, as did John, because "even the demons believe, and tremble".

Another way to approach the problem is shown in Acts 16. When the servant girl started making her proclamations, on the surface they sounded good and right. She was not lying. Paul kept his peace until he was sure, and had had enough, and the time was right, and then he took authority over the spirit. He never did drill down to ascertain the source, as per 1jn 4. He didn't have to, because he knew the voice of God and this spirit was not harmonious with it.

We know the Father is not going to talk to you in harsh, unmerciful terms. Even if you were to stray, He would be scanning the horizon yearning for your return (lk 15). Of course He will give stern warnings and discipline when appropriate, but they will be clean even then. So this could be a matter of knowledge and faith - believing the character of God as revealed most fully in the NT, and taking your stand on it against any competing voice that is not in harmony with it.

Jesus calls us to spiritual rest (Mt 11.28-ff; John 15). The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, etc (Gal 5). And the wisdom from above is pure, peaceable, reasonable, etc (Jam 3). This is what we should expect from God as we navigate the difficult terrain here on Earth. In Php 4 Paul tells us:

Be anxious for nothing, but in all things, through prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God.
And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds in Christ Jesus.
Finally, brothers, whatever things are true, whatever honest, whatever just, whatever pure, whatever lovely, whatever of good report, if there be any virtue and if any praise, meditate on these things.
And what you learned and received and heard and saw in me, these do, and the God of peace will be with you. -Phil 4:6-9

Perhaps dwelling on the goodness of God as revealed in these passages will feed and strengthen your ability to discern what is false.

Help with 1 John 4:2-3, Discerning the spirits of God or demons

BelieverofTheTruth

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faroukfarouk

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Oldmantook

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Amittai

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Aussie Pete

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paul1149

that your faith might rest in the power of God

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Help with 1 John 4:2-3, Discerning the spirits of God or demons

BelieverofTheTruth

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faroukfarouk

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Oldmantook

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Amittai

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Aussie Pete

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paul1149

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