Help. (Warning: May Trigger OCD)

Caty · Feb 20, 2009

Has anyone ever heard of the 5-points of Calvinism? I stumbled upon an article and its driving my OCD crazy and it really, really scared me, especially the part about Unconditional Election. Ive never heard of this before, any help or insight on this?

Liftyourhand7 · Feb 20, 2009

Caty said:
Has anyone ever heard of the 5-points of Calvinism? I stumbled upon an article and its driving my OCD crazy and it really, really scared me, especially the part about Unconditional Election. Ive never heard of this before, any help or insight on this?

Hi Caty,

I have heard of and have somewhat studied the 5-points of Calvinism, I personally have strong objections to calvinism ,which teaches that God chose to save some and chose not to save others. I actually reject it and think that it contradicts God's word,1John 2;2 says Jesus Christ died and paid the sin debt of ALL men and that God "...will have ALL men to be saved 1 Tim2:4, There is a great article which I believe that you can get online by Cooper P. AbramsIII it is a Biblical Explanation of the Doctrine of Election and if you read this article I believe it will really put your mind at ease. Many people with OCD really fear Calvinism because they of course think that they are among the people who where not chosen, it is just another LIE of OCD and then of course satan will play on your fears, please look up these verses I give you in your Bible, it will really help you and show you that Christ died for all mankind and not just for some,1 John 2:2, John 3:16, 1 Timothy 2:6, 2 Corinthians 5:14 Mark 16:15 A really great verse 2 Peter 3:9, Acts 17:30 Romans 5:18, Hebrews 2:9, I hope this will help you. Blessings, Jan

Liftyourhand7 · Feb 20, 2009

Caty said:
Has anyone ever heard of the 5-points of Calvinism? I stumbled upon an article and its driving my OCD crazy and it really, really scared me, especially the part about Unconditional Election. Ive never heard of this before, any help or insight on this?

Hi Caty,

I have heard of and have somewhat studied the 5-points of Calvinism, I personally have strong objections to calvinism ,which teaches that God chose to save some and chose not to save others. I actually reject it and think that it contradicts God's word,1John 2;2 says Jesus Christ died and paid the sin debt of ALL men and that God "...will have ALL men to be saved 1 Tim2:4, There is a great article which I believe that you can get online by Cooper P. AbramsIII it is a Biblical Explanation of the Doctrine of Election and if you read this article I believe it will really put your mind at ease. Many people with OCD really fear Calvinism because they of course think that they are among the people who where not chosen, it is just another LIE of OCD and then of course satan will play on your fears, please look up these verses I give you in your Bible, it will really help you and show you that Christ died for all mankind and not just for some,1 John 2:2, John 3:16, 1 Timothy 2:6, 2 Corinthians 5:14 Mark 16:15 A really great verse 2 Peter 3:9, Acts 17:30 Romans 5:18, Hebrews 2:9, I hope this will help you. Blessings, Jan

Jayangel81 · Feb 21, 2009

That false doctrine stinks up the theology section of Christianforums, do yourself a favor and stear clear away from it.

People take scriptures out of context and twiste it with another piece of scripture taken completly out of context, it is tragic to say the least

keryakos · Feb 21, 2009

Caty ...i consider myself a calvinist because i lean more toward a presbyterian view of theology ..Strictly Speaking however i take the lutheran position on this ..which is predestination but not double predestination .It can be summed up like this .
God calls all that will be saved
God desires all men to be saved
This is as far as we can go on this ..

But i have good news for you Caty ...If you have been saved by placing youre faith in Christ alone for salvation ..Then God has elected you ..He has called you and he has sealed you by his Holy Spirit ..

The Gospel is a genuine offer to all who hear it ...

keryakos · Feb 21, 2009

Jayangel81 said:
That false doctrine stinks up the theology section of Christianforums, do yourself a favor and stear clear away from it.

People take scriptures out of context and twiste it with another piece of scripture taken completly out of context, it is tragic to say the least

Im not debating theology this is not the forum for that ,,But speaking as a Calvanist if you are talking about double predestination then yes that is a false doctrine ,,tht is that God has a list of those that will be saved and the rest will be damned ..that is as false as false can get ..However the five points of calvinisim are not compromised by the exclusion of that particular doctrine ..Not all calvinists are hyper calvinists ,,and not all Calvinists worship John Calvin as if he were Christ ,,The basis of Calvanisim is Gods soveringty , Gods Grace Gods all atoning Sacricife through his son Jesus Christ Justification by faith
and the biblical example of the organazation of the church ,,All of these things are true ,,, and except for the last one are shared by all true christian churches ,

zingiber · Feb 21, 2009

I am a calvinist (mostly! there are some bits that I am not sure about). I can see why unconditional election would scare you, but I have never had problems with it. You see, if you trust in Jesus as your saviour and Lord, then you are elect - God has chosen you, and there is no need at all to worry about if you are or not. Those who aren't elect would not worry about it, I think. The more you worry about your salvation/election, the less likely you have reason to worry about it. I hope this helps you. If you do have more questions, don't hesitate to ask. I truly think that you do not need to worry about this!

Caty · Feb 21, 2009

I have doubted in the past but have never came to the point that I didn't believe. My OCD is stuck on it now and it's worrying me. Question for a cavanist, do you all believe that and athesit can convert? Or that someone can doubt and still be saved? Can a person really want to be saved and follow Christ, but the can't because they are not chosen? That's what my OCD has latched onto now.

keryakos · Feb 21, 2009

Caty said:
I have doubted in the past but have never came to the point that I didn't believe. My OCD is stuck on it now and it's worrying me. Question for a cavanist, do you all believe that and athesit can convert? Or that someone can doubt and still be saved? Can a person really want to be saved and follow Christ, but the can't because they are not chosen? That's what my OCD has latched onto now.

That is an impossibility if you truely believe and have a desire to serve Christ then that has only happened because the Holy Spirit has regenerated you .None of us are nor could ever be born again of our own power or will ..yes you have a choice but that choice itself is a gift of grace ...So to answer youre question ..NO if you truely have trusted Christ and want to serve him then you are elected .

Jayangel81 · Feb 21, 2009

But speaking as a Calvanist if you are talking about double predestination then yes that is a false doctrine ,,tht is that God has a list of those that will be saved and the rest will be damned ..that is as false as false can get

Yes that is one of the doctrines that stinks up CF and other areas of the body of Christ. I should have been more clear, my appologies

I have no problem with calvins, but I am so tired of hearing this garbage imo

My OCD in the past has latched onto this, It bothered my greatly to say the least..

keryakos · Feb 21, 2009

no need to apologize James i just needed to clarify that WE dont all believe that and that the exclusion of that doctrine does not prove detrimental to calvinism ,,, im sorry that youre ocd latched onto this i can easily see how it would .

RachelZ · Feb 21, 2009

Hey Caty I too struggle with the whole idea of predestination and election, they being ideas I was bought up with. I don't even want to expound further cos I'd hate to add more issues for people to worry about regarding this but suffice it to say I can understand the problems these things bring up. Hope you get some help and relief soon...take care, Rachel

zingiber · Feb 21, 2009

What you must realise is that any who wants to be saved can come to Jesus in repentance and get forgiveness for his sins. It is not as if some want to saved, but cannot be because they are not elected. The fact that you want to be saved, that you fear not being saved, I believe is evidence that you have been led to Jesus, that you have been saved.
As to your other questions, of course atheists can convert. Think of C.S Lewis! I also think that all christians doubt about something at some point. God can forgive anyone for doubting - Think of Thomas! He wouldn't believe that Jesus was risen until he had touched his scars, yet Jesus wasn't even angry, and he told Thomas to touch his hands and his side!
I will pray for you, that you may not fear, but just trust in Jesus.

Caty · Feb 21, 2009

zingiber said:
What you must realise is that any who wants to be saved can come to Jesus in repentance and get forgiveness for his sins. It is not as if some want to saved, but cannot be because they are not elected. The fact that you want to be saved, that you fear not being saved, I believe is evidence that you have been led to Jesus, that you have been saved.
As to your other questions, of course atheists can convert. Think of C.S Lewis! I also think that all christians doubt about something at some point. God can forgive anyone for doubting - Think of Thomas! He wouldn't believe that Jesus was risen until he had touched his scars, yet Jesus wasn't even angry, and he told Thomas to touch his hands and his side!
I will pray for you, that you may not fear, but just trust in Jesus.

Well, see I thought that the election thing meant that even if you really wanted to be saved you couldn't because you were not elected. That helps me some, thank you. After I read about it, I have been afraid to move. I started cying as soon as I read it, fear just came over me. I wouldn't wish this on anyone, but I'm glad you all know what I'm going through, it helps to talk to someone if they can relate.

Jayangel81 · Feb 21, 2009

The fact that you want to be saved, that you fear not being saved, I believe is evidence that you have been led to Jesus, that you have been saved

I agree, Jesus made it very clear that noone comes to Jesus unless the Father draws them.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Now the question is, will that person accept the calling

kaykay9.0 · Feb 21, 2009

Liftyourhand7 said:
Hi Caty,

I have heard of and have somewhat studied the 5-points of Calvinism, I personally have strong objections to calvinism ,which teaches that God chose to save some and chose not to save others. I actually reject it and think that it contradicts God's word,1John 2;2 says Jesus Christ died and paid the sin debt of ALL men and that God "...will have ALL men to be saved 1 Tim2:4, There is a great article which I believe that you can get online by Cooper P. AbramsIII it is a Biblical Explanation of the Doctrine of Election and if you read this article I believe it will really put your mind at ease. Many people with OCD really fear Calvinism because they of course think that they are among the people who where not chosen, it is just another LIE of OCD and then of course satan will play on your fears, please look up these verses I give you in your Bible, it will really help you and show you that Christ died for all mankind and not just for some,1 John 2:2, John 3:16, 1 Timothy 2:6, 2 Corinthians 5:14 Mark 16:15 A really great verse 2 Peter 3:9, Acts 17:30 Romans 5:18, Hebrews 2:9, I hope this will help you. Blessings, Jan

I am quite familiar with the 5 points of Calvinism, but I agree with this post. I see where Calvinists get some of their beliefs but like Liftyourhand posted, I think if you consider the whole counsel of scripture, the Calvinistic viewpoint just doesn't line up with the whole of scripture. All through scripture you will find God issuing people a CHOICE to choose life or choose death, to choose blessing or a curse, etc.

keryakos · Feb 22, 2009

kaykay9.0 said:
I am quite familiar with the 5 points of Calvinism, but I agree with this post. I see where Calvinists get some of their beliefs but like Liftyourhand posted, I think if you consider the whole counsel of scripture, the Calvinistic viewpoint just doesn't line up with the whole of scripture. All through scripture you will find God issuing people a CHOICE to choose life or choose death, to choose blessing or a curse, etc.

I believe that the Calvinistic viewpoint does indeed line up with scripture except for that one doctrine and it gets that half way right .. ..The real issue is Cats fear which has nothing to do with groups ..The fear comes from one of the most frightning questions known to man ..WHAT IF ..What if they are right and it makes no difference one way or the other .. Well ..
God has said that they who believe in double predestination are wrong already and that is something that is very clear from scripture ,,So the question is not what group is right but is God right ..
If God is indeed right then theologically speaking the matter is solved ..though humanly speaking the fear may linger and that is understandable and our illness can really go to town with something like this ..

annrobert · Feb 22, 2009

Caty,
Jesus said he that cometh to Me I will never cast out.No matter if a person used to be athiest,no matter if a person doubted some times,no matter anything.Jesus said he that cometh to Me I will in no wise cast out.It does not even matter what our theologies are either.If we come to Jesus we will in no wise be cast out.I hope that helps some.
annrobert

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