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Michelina

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Debi, Let me recap a little.

The first sin (which was an actual sin) was committed by Adam and Eve. Their descendants all inherit the consequences of their sin, just as they would have inherited the rewards for their not sinning.

The penalties for sin are Death and Concupiscence. Concupiscence is (a) a darkening of the mind and (b) a weakening of the will and (c) a disjunction between mind and will. You can ask your friend if he remembers where St Paul says: I do what I don't want to do and don't do what I want to do. This problem of St Paul and all of us (except Our Lord and Our Mother) is concupiscence.

The legal penalty (Death) has been paid by a sacrifice proportionate to the crime: a human-divine spotless Sacrifice.

Concupiscence, however, remains.

Grace, i.e. Divine Life within us, overcomes our concupiscence.
 
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Debi1967

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Ok then (and I know that I am being a dunce) so we are born into both but when we are baptized Original sin is taken away and then only Actual sin remains, this making it easier for us as true Christians with the proper understanding and Holy Spirit now more able to resist the compulsion to the Actual sin.
 
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Michelina

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That's it, Debi. The legal inherited penalty (death) is taken away and Grace gives us the ability to overcome concupiscence which would otherwise lead us to actual sins.
 
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Debi1967

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Michelina said:
That's it, Debi. The legal inherited penalty (death) is taken away and Grace gives us the ability to overcome concupiscence which would otherwise lead us to actual sins.
Ok now I got it then I just wanted to be totally correct here....

But why would any Christian say we are not though I don't understand that at all? I mean I may have needed to know the Churches precise teaching and have it clarified but it is all over the bible....I just don't get it sometimes
 
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Michelina

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Some non Catholic Christians reject the term 'original sin' because the term is not found in the SScriptures. So, it's Catholic and therefore false, another Catholic "invention". They don't believe in infant baptism and see the connection between original sin and baptism. So what else can they say?
 
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marciadietrich

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Since the Orthodox view has been brought up, and this being an original sin thread, Orthodox don't consider infant baptism to be for the remission of sin then? I don't know the Lutheran view either, or others who do infant baptism. Are all those simply to incorporate the child into the body of Christ?

Marcia
 
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Michelina

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Great question, Marcia! Maybe an Orthodox brother or sister could explain their theology on this. Others likewise.
Thanks.
 
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Debi1967

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OK just because the specific termonology isn't used that is why they reject it? Well then that makes no sense whatsoever because neither is the term Trinity, but that is accepted. See this is what I do not like at all that just because we put a word to it then it is wrong.....
You can't pick and choose what you are going to accept from the bible just because you don't like a term. The scriptures prove that Original sin exists and that the only way to be cleansed of it is by Baptism. Now I know it may seem like I am overeacting here but really I am not, I have always been this way when it comes to the Bible and it's teachings. You cannot accept part of and reject the rest and say that you are Christian.... I am sorry it just does not makes sense to me.
 
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BAChristian

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ej said:
Stick with it, Debi - you're asking good questions.

I used to read my catechism in bite-sized chunks (on the bus, at the airport, etc) because it was too much to read more than 15mins at a time.
I actively study the Catechism right now...

And you will know once in awhile where I'm at when I post something from the Catechism in my sig. Wherever it's referenced in my sig, is where my current stopping point is...

Debi, here is a good Internet study group that studies the Catechism. You can take tests and everything and get an official certificate and everything.
 
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Debi1967

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Michelina said:
They believe what they are taught. We neen to explain ourselves to them in charity.
I know it fustrating but I try. I think the biggest thing that I try to tell people is to please read the whole bible for themselves. I was taught from an early age to do this and to always compare things to the bible and not except it as truth until it was proven first.
I think that is why at such an early age the very same people that taught me this philosophy also got told that I did not believe in their teachings. They were wise to teach me like that but unwise if they thought it would make me stay. So far in all of my studies of Catholicism I have found nothing out of line with the Bible and that is very encouraging to me and just solififies the belief that I made the right choice.
 
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BAChristian

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debiwebi said:
I know it fustrating but I try.
As you grow stronger in Christ, it will become easier. Patience with people (as I've stated countless times) is the Lord's big project with me... He's the project manager.


debiwebi said:
I think the biggest thing that I try to tell people is to please read the whole bible for themselves. I was taught from an early age to do this and to always compare things to the bible and not except it as truth until it was proven first.
Reading the Bible from a Catholic point of view is a must-do. I firmly believe that if you don't read the tool that Christ gave us, you will quickly fall.

debiwebi said:
So far in all of my studies of Catholicism I have found nothing out of line with the Bible and that is very encouraging to me and just solififies the belief that I made the right choice.
 
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ShannonMcCatholic

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Whoa !! Wait- not to make it more confusing, but Baptism takes away Original Sin and any actual sin which may have occured- but the effects of Original sin, our weakened nature( or our disposition to turn away from God and to things of the flesh) remains. A very illustrative example is the Good Thief- how could he possibly be going that day to Paradise? Through Baptism (of Desire) his Original and all actual sins, and all temporal punishment due to those sins is wiped away. I've heard Baptism explained as a sort of smart bomb- where we are given a completely clean slate. I hope I didn't jump in and make it more confusing! If so, just ignore my post!!

In the Sacred Heart of Jesus,
Shannon
 
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marciadietrich

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Baptism washes away all sin up to that point, both original and actual. Thus, someone like me not formerly baptized, I didn't have to go to confession before my first communion. I had baptism, confirmation and first communion all at once. I did my first confession about a month later.

Marcia
 
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ChoirDir

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marciadietrich said:
Since the Orthodox view has been brought up, and this being an original sin thread, Orthodox don't consider infant baptism to be for the remission of sin then?
Through the act of immersion, the baptized person dies to this world and is born again in the resurrection of Christ into eternal life. He is clothed with the "garments of salvation" symbolized by the white baptismal robe which is the "new humanity" of Jesus himself who is the new and heavenly Adam (See Jn 3, Rom 5, 1 Cor 15). Thus, the words of the Apostle Paul are chanted as the newly-baptized is led in procession around the baptismal font three times as the symbol of his procession to the Kingdom of God and his entrance into eternal life: "For as many as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. Alleluia" (Gal 3:27).
 
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Roald

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geocajun said:
hey Choirdir, who asked for the EO view?...
Well...It isn't just the Orthodox view; it is also the Eastern Catholic view. Eastern Catholic theology around Original Sin more closely resembles the Orthodox theology, yet we know that it is not incorrect because they are in communion with Rome.

As with many differences between Orthodox and Catholic theology; it is a difference of language and perspective--two views of the same Truth.
 
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