Heeding the Commandments of Jesus Christ

I had discussed in the TE only forum about why some of them think it is appropriate to put down YECs, humiliate them, berate them, lie about them, etc. One said it was a good thing to do, two said it wasn't.

There are also YECs who do the same thing to TEs. The response of "retaliation" or "they did it first" is not a valid excuse but rather a justification of sinfulness.

My question to each and every member on this forum is: What is needed to be done so that we can all head the commandments of Jesus Christ - love thy neighbor as yourself? What can be done so we each actually do as Christ told us to do?

Is there something that needs to be done in order to aid us in follow what Jesus told us to follow? Do TEs need to stop doing what they do in order for YECs to follow Jesus Christ's commandment? Do YECs need to stop doing what they do in order for TEs to follow Jesus Christ's commandment?

Is it possible that we can just follow what Jesus said because He said so?

There is so much personal attacks, retaliations, sarcasm, etc in this forum and the open forum. Is this what Jesus meant by loving thy neighbor? Did He want us to personally attack anyone who thought differently than ourselves? Did He want us to attack anyone who didn't accept Him?

I think you know the answers to all of these. So what is it going to take to follow what He said?

I suggest, that if you do want to follow what Jesus said, and would like help in trying to do so, here in this forum that you say so here and we agree to help each other.

The best way would be that TEs agree to help keep TEs from making these mistakes and YECs would help YECs from making this these mistakes. Too often, if TEs correct YECs or visa versa, we take it the wrong way.

If I act in a way that is contrary to what Jesus said, then correct me. I care much more about following Jesus Christ than about being wrong.

We each have given a sad display in this forum and the open forum (forget TEs or YECs or OECs ect - all of us as one) of what a Christian is like. Peter said the number one way to evangelism to the non-believer is through our actions, not our words. So what have your actions been saying to non-believers.

I know I need a lot of work and am not ashamed to say that I am no where near perfect and consider myself the worst of all offenders.

We must ask ourselves, are we more concerned about proving each other wrong at all costs where insults insue or can we be humble and do as Jesus commanded?

What will it take for us to make our actions reflect that we are Christians?

On the whole I agree wholeheartedly (punintended) with you Critias. It's why I've stopped posting at the open forums, though the traffic is far higher and the debates are far more fun. ... but then again, you would agree with me that once in a while somebody who really really doesn't want to even try to discuss rationally comes along. (Happens far too often on the Christian Teens forums.) I think I'm justified to try and jolt that person a little. Within the brotherhood, of course.

I agree with your post Critias. I don't generally post in the E/C open forum because there are enough non-Christians in there anyway and I don't see how arguing for evolution or Creation is the best way to witness. I post in this forum simply to discuss the relevant issues and because I see groups like AIG as having gone off the deep end in one way or another. I am honestly posting in this forum to find some common ground and understand why some people or denominations stick to young earth Creation. I was baptised Catholic and I now attend a liberal Lutheran Church (part of ELCA) and I have never been exposed to YEC as a doctrine in either Church.

Without a doubt what you post is true, yet as Christians we can never forget that we're also human and not above reproach. Each day we must remember to die to self and realize we don't have all the answers, God does.

As stumpjumper and shernren have already pointed out, the open forums is a volatile area with few people with open minds seeking alternative points of view. It is so rare for us to find someone who is genuinely seeking the truth and then when someone wishes to share they get bombarded with such open hostility and disdain. I truly feel much of it is actually counterproductive, especially when you have TEs and YECs openly in contempt for one another. What really bothers me is how TEs and the atheists, agnostics, etc. join to openly ridicule YECs.

Thankfully, we don't have it nearly as bad here.

So, the answer to your question is getting self out of the way and putting Jesus first. That is bore out with the WWJD approach, but ultimately it is a reflection of how developed our relationship with the Lord is. As Critias recommended, it is important that we hold each other accountable. I agree that the best way for us to do that, at least for some of us, is TEs and YECs police themselves. Now having said that if someone finds a post of mine to be inappropriate I want them to immediately tell me, no matter what persuasion you may be.

As children of the Most High God, this shouldn't be too hard for us to do, don't ya think?

I don't post in the EC forum because I see that as the place to discuss the science, and there are much more experienced people there who can handle that. Besides, I find a lot of the discussions repetitive and tedious. I post here because this is more focused on the theological aspect of it.

If Creationists are interested in unity with their TE brethren, or, perhaps more specifically, this particular TE brother in Christ, you can start by doing the following:

* Stop accusing me of calling Jesus a liar
* Stop accusing me of saying God, Peter, Paul and Jesus are in error
* Stop telling me I worship a God of death
* Stop accusing me of not believing the Bible
* Stop saying I trust science/scientists and not God and implying that I think science and scientists are infallible.
* Stop saying I am trying to accomodate humanism, secularism or other philosophies you don't like
* Stop saying I am denying God's role in Creation

Basically, stop accusing me of believing things which I do not believe. And allow me my interpretation of the text just as I allow you yours.

theFijian said:

If Creationists are interested in unity with their TE brethren, or, perhaps more specifically, this particular TE brother in Christ, you can start by doing the following:

* Stop accusing me of calling Jesus a liar
* Stop accusing me of saying God, Peter, Paul and Jesus are in error
* Stop telling me I worship a God of death
* Stop accusing me of not believing the Bible
* Stop saying I trust science/scientists and not God and implying that I think science and scientists are infallible.
* Stop saying I am trying to accomodate humanism, secularism or other philosophies you don't like
* Stop saying I am denying God's role in Creation

Basically, stop accusing me of believing things which I do not believe. And allow me my interpretation of the text just as I allow you yours.

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Easy brother, it's not good to come in here accusing people like that. Especially without substantiating it.

I have no idea of what you may be referring to, at least with regard to any of the specifics.

I will make some general observations.

If you post something that clearly says something contrary to the Bible, are you saying you'd like us not to challenge it?

Shouldn't we make an attempt to judge each others words?

If not, why are we here?

I certainly hope with that last statement that you think we should all be allowed to interpret the Bible any way we see fit because that may work at school, work, the ballgame or even your local church, but it certainly won't work here. :o

I look forward to hearing what you have to say.

theFijian said:

If Creationists are interested in unity with their TE brethren, or, perhaps more specifically, this particular TE brother in Christ, you can start by doing the following:

* Stop accusing me of calling Jesus a liar
* Stop accusing me of saying God, Peter, Paul and Jesus are in error
* Stop telling me I worship a God of death
* Stop accusing me of not believing the Bible
* Stop saying I trust science/scientists and not God and implying that I think science and scientists are infallible.
* Stop saying I am trying to accomodate humanism, secularism or other philosophies you don't like
* Stop saying I am denying God's role in Creation

Basically, stop accusing me of believing things which I do not believe. And allow me my interpretation of the text just as I allow you yours.

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No offense, but this is what it will take for you to heed the commandments of Jesus Christ? That is what the OP is about.

Critias said:

No offense, but this is what it will take for you to heed the commandments of Jesus Christ? That is what the OP is about.

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What commandment of Christ did theFijian break? Please be specific. All I saw in his post is a suggestion that some of behaviors that several YEC members of this board engage in (Your self included by the posts referenced) should be stopped in order to usher in a more civil debate. Is asking you and the others to stop calling us these things against the will of Jesus?

LewisWildermuth said:

What commandment of Christ did theFijian break? Please be specific. All I saw in his post is a suggestion that some of behaviors that several YEC members of this board engage in (Your self included by the posts referenced) should be stopped in order to usher in a more civil debate.

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I wasn't suggesting that he did. The questions I posed in the OP is what will it take to follow Christ's commandments. You see what Fijian answered with.

So, I asked is that what it will take? Also clarifying what was asked.

LewisWildermuth said:

Is asking you and the others to stop calling us these things against the will of Jesus?

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My apologies if I have offended you. I was only standing for what I believe and what I see going on here. If my words in descibing these have not been chosen well, then my apologies.

The question in your reply to theFijian is derogatory and destructive in and of itself...



Let me change it a little bit so you can more easily see...



"When are you going to stop molesting children?"



By stating the question in this way you immediately cast a bad light on the one it is being asked of, and there is no good way to answer it without making one look guilty.



This is one of the reasons the talk in here gets so heated. You may not realize what you typed was incredibly insulting and accusatory, but it is to the reader. It is a failing of our educational system, debate, rhetoric, and even basic reading comprehension have been gutted from the English classes and people do not see what they write as the reader and what they say as the listener would hear it.

LewisWildermuth said:

The question in your reply to theFijian is derogatory and destructive in and of itself...



Let me change it a little bit so you can more easily see...



"When are you going to stop molesting children?"



By stating the question in this way you immediately cast a bad light on the one it is being asked of, and there is no good way to answer it without making one look guilty.



This is one of the reasons the talk in here gets so heated. You may not realize what you typed was incredibly insulting and accusatory, but it is to the reader. It is a failing of our educational system, debate, rhetoric, and even basic reading comprehension have been gutted from the English classes and people do not see what they write as the reader and what they say as the listener would hear it.

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So you don't think any of us are guilty of not follow Christ's commandments?

Honestly, Critias, I'm not sure what your point is. If you think that some or all of us are not heeding Jesus Christ in the way we conduct our discussions here or in Open Forums then come right out and tell us where you think we are wrong. No need for word games. But remember that judging goes two ways.

vossler said:

Easy brother, it's not good to come in here accusing people like that. Especially without substantiating it.

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Did you click on a single link?

vossler said:

Easy brother, it's not good to come in here accusing people like that. Especially without substantiating it.

I have no idea of what you may be referring to, at least with regard to any of the specifics.

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You may not have noticed, but every item in his list was a link to where a YEC had made each particular accusation. That was why they were orange.

This thread has gone down hill a bit. Let’s see if we can get back on track.

Before we can reach any semblance of love, there needs to be a lot of apologies. It’s not enough for these things to stop. The wounds are already there and will not heal if left alone. There are people on both sides that are the problem and the rest either get dragged into it or get stereotyped as such. I’m not sure what part I may have played but I’ll start.

If anything I have ever said has offended anyone or caused any other bad feelings, then I ask for your forgiveness. I will make every attempt to make sure it doesn’t happen again.

Shernren, here is your post that you made after my OP:

shernren said:

On the whole I agree wholeheartedly (punintended) with you Critias. It's why I've stopped posting at the open forums, though the traffic is far higher and the debates are far more fun. ... but then again, you would agree with me that once in a while somebody who really really doesn't want to even try to discuss rationally comes along. (Happens far too often on the Christian Teens forums.) I think I'm justified to try and jolt that person a little. Within the brotherhood, of course.

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Lewis came into this thread that asks what do we need to do to follow Christ's commandments with a list of things that YECs, including myself need to stop. I asked if this was in relation to the OP where I asked, "What do we need to do to follow Christ's commandments?"

Now, I believe what I wrote that he quoted. I probably wrote it in not the best of ways. I apologize. I should have worded my words better and it wasn't meant to make you or anyone feel any less. They are my beliefs, as you are entitled to yours.

You will notice in the OP, I am not just talking about TEs, but everyone here. You even agreed with me. Now you ask me what is the point to this thread? Do you not see it being derailed from making a point that above all things we need to follow Christ's commandments to pointing figures now - regardless of blame?

I will take all the blame that you or anyone here would like to give to me. I will apologize as many times as you an everyone would like. But, I cannot just change what I believe. I haven't been the best example here, but do you think what this thread is turning into is now the best example? If you want to place the blame on me for the turn of this thread, fine. I apologize.


This is about follow Christ's commandments and what it will take here, with us. That is what this thread is about, what will it take? If we need to get the blaming everyone out of the way, fine get it done now. Lay the blame out on whomever you or anyone wants and lets get it over with. If that is what it will take to follow Christ's commandments of love one another, let's do it.

Look to the OP, I wasn't just judging TEs, YECs were included and that includes me.

Whatelse do you need Shernren, Lewis, Karl, Kate, whomever else? Whatelse would you like that would help?

What we would like is that YECs stop trying to imply that our Christianity is second rate. That they know the Bible better than us and if we knew it as well as them we'd agree with them - viz. the "Why do some Christians..." thread, where QuantumFlux is basically using that line against me.

We would like to be able to agree to disagree whilst still respecting each others' faith. This is not happening when YECs tell us that we're listening to men instead of believing God.

Karl - Liberal Backslider said:

You may not have noticed, but every item in his list was a link to where a YEC had made each particular accusation. That was why they were orange.

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Sorry folks, I wasn't aware they were links.

Karl, your Christianity is not second rate.

After spending a few moments thinking about this, this is what the point to this thread was: it is a rhetorical question.

There shouldn't be anything that anyone needs to say or do for all of us to follow Christ's commandments. His commands are not dependent on how society acts, they are commands.

I will take full responsibility for this thread going off topic into a small accusation match of who is to blame for us not acting as God told us to. And I also realize now, after seeing what has happened with this thread that asks for us to keep in mind what Jesus said, that this place never will probably change.

You see, we each play both sides of the fence here. On one hand we say that is how you interpret, yet we each interpret what each other says and then we place blame on the one who wrote whatever instead of asking or realizing that we may have interpreted wrong. It really is quite ironic, this happening here.

This isn't to point the figure on TEs or something, I think we YECs are at least half to blame if not more. The problem I see is that even if one does write something with the best intentions, there will still be someone to accuse her or him that they didn't have the best intentions. If someone believes differently than ourself, then we accuse them of being less than us. Why is it we need someone else to do something in order to follow Christ's commandments?

Seems like it just comes down to pride to me. I don't think it matters how I say anything for someone to take it wrongly. It sure does help, but I think someone will always take it wrongly no matter what. This thread is a great example where I openly stated my question to everyone here, not just one group. Yet, it is now a heated debate about what we need to do to follow Christ's commandments.

There isn't anything we should need to do in order to follow Christ's commandments. We should just do it regardless because He said to.

Each of you know that this place doesn't shine with following Christ's commandments. Forget what individual is to blame for it, although I know I share a great majority of it, and start thinking about how we, ourself can do what He commanded.

Over my time here, I have become pessimistic about seeing a change here, a change in me to act differently, a change in us. I see this thread that did have good intentions now be brought down. I will ask that the mods close this thread, for this isn't our finest hour.

My apologies to those who have taken offense to what I have said here. I didn't mean ill will towards you, but rather hoping you may see it from my point of view. I have enjoyed the debates in this forum with many of you, Shernren, Kate, Gluadys, Karl, and Lewis. You are each capable and intelligent Christians whom I am glad and look forward to seeing in heaven. Whether I am right or wrong about origins makes no difference, seeing you there will. I feel it best to step away from this all as it seems I have added enough problems to this forum.

God Bless