Headcovering

MatthewDiscipleofGod · Jun 14, 2008

I for one enjoy hearing about ladies that wear head coverings. They are doing so with their free will which is a night and day difference from Islam. The only bondage going on is the bondage to God and our convictions. We are all called to be bond servants of Christ.

DarkNLovely · Jun 14, 2008

Floatingaxe said:
We are not free if we are allowing the ancient customs influence our free worship today. That is useless baggage and piousness.

Women out there on the nations' streets (not talking about only street people here) are not looking for religion or religiosity. Covering sends the message to a visitor looking for what Jesus offers that they are somewhat less without a covering. You heap burdens on them they are not required to bear in Christ.

Jesus hated tradition. So should you. It doesn't win souls, and it doesn't align itself to what Jesus gives us...freedom in worship!

We are to dance with abandon before the Lord. Can't do that with a lace doily that could fly off into a heap.

Hi FA!

Nothing is wrong with piety and this ancient custum has a timeless principles. Principles which I choose not to violate.

I don't see how it would send the message that they are less when they are not mandated to by the Church. We are not forced to do anything so there is no burden. It is simply a womans sign of PERSONAL devotion between her and God alone. This same argument can be made for women dressing immodestly. What's wrong with women on the nations streets wearing bra tops and booty cutters? They are free right?

Jesus did not hate tradition. He hated legalism. He loves my keeping the ancient ways (tradition) but doesen't condemn me if I don't (legalism). My choice is freedom in worship and with all due respect, your philosophy would take it away from me. Not mention is hides in shame when faced with 2,000 years of Christian history. This new-fangeled philosophy has no real basis IMHO.

Not only can I dance before the Lord with abandon, but I have done it! It's not uncommon for us to do the Electric Slide at my Church! How? Bobby pins and hair clips!

Izdaari Eristikon · Jun 14, 2008

I side with Floating Axe on this... up to a point. While I choose not to cover, I won't criticize those who do, if they do it out of devotion to God and not out of obligation.

Floatingaxe · Jun 14, 2008

Criada said:
FA, you have on many occasions told me how important it is to obey the word of God.
May I ask how you interpret 1Corinthians 11? Particularly verse 16.. which in the past I have been brought back to again and again when arguing exactly what you are arguing here.

I don't want to argue. and I am not a member of this forum.. so please forgive me if I am outside of the rule... I am just interested to understand how someone whose commitment to the word of God I have always admired manages to explain this. Because, believe me, I have tried to do so!

There is no practice of wearing headcoverings in the church. All God wants is your worship.

Floatingaxe · Jun 14, 2008

Izdaari said:
I side with Floating Axe on this... up to a point. While I choose not to cover, I won't criticize those who do, if they do it out of devotion to God and not out of obligation.

I agree with you. I don't desire to criticize, but I do see how it can negatively influence the way a woman would evangelize.

Criada · Jun 14, 2008

Floatingaxe said:
There is no practice of wearing headcoverings in the church. All God wants is your worship.

He has that! With or without a covered head.
But the bible seems pretty clear on the issue... and whilst I don't fully understand it, I am happy to accept it on that basis.

As for evangelism... as a wise woman once said to me... if God is not big enough to get past a felt beret, then there is no point! If God is drawing someone to himself, I am sure He won't let what I have on my head affect it!

DarkNLovely · Jun 15, 2008

Criada said:
He has that! With or without a covered head.
But the bible seems pretty clear on the issue... and whilst I don't fully understand it, I am happy to accept it on that basis.

As for evangelism... as a wise woman once said to me... if God is not big enough to get past a felt beret, then there is no point! If God is drawing someone to himself, I am sure He won't let what I have on my head affect it!

Look! I found this! This is from a Russian Orthodox Fashion show! This style is pretty, but I am still debating wearing it as it isn't distinct enough for me.

Floatingaxe · Jun 15, 2008

Not DISTINCT ENOUGH FOR YOU?

So the wearing of headcoverings IS INDEED for outward show. Pious traditions to be seen by men! Jesus hates religiosity and that is religiosity.

Criada · Jun 15, 2008

For me at least, it is not outward show... it took me a long time to overcome the discomfort of the outward show. And I have used all the arguments about tradition, etc.
But every time , God brings me back to scripture.. and all my intellectualising can't find a way around that. I can't afford to start deciding which parts of scripture are important and which are 'cultural'... that is a very slippery slope, and, for me at least, could lead to a lot of problems. If I believe the Bible, how can I decide to ignore some things? I know Jesus set us free from the law... but this was written to Christians, it is not the OT law from which we have been liberated....

DarkNLovely · Jun 15, 2008

Floatingaxe said:
Not DISTINCT ENOUGH FOR YOU?

So the wearing of headcoverings IS INDEED for outward show. Pious traditions to be seen by men! Jesus hates religiosity and that is religiosity.

Hi FA!

You really have a very interesting logic. But anyhoo. When I was saying it wasn't distinct enough, I was alluding to one of the last comments I made about a Christian womans veil needing to be distinct from a Muslimahs. This is Hijabi style in my book. So to help you out I'll rephrase.

I don't think this style is distinct enough from Hijabi style for anyone to tell that I am not a Muslim.

Considering that a Christian womans covering can be anything as inconspicuous from a scarf tied behind the neck to a fadora, I really don't see how that's outward show or religiosity. My grandmas wore this sometime.

There is absolutly no way you could tell the differnce between them, women observent of this custom and a lady who just likes to wear these.

LovebirdsFlying · Jun 16, 2008

Floatingaxe said:
Not DISTINCT ENOUGH FOR YOU?

So the wearing of headcoverings IS INDEED for outward show. Pious traditions to be seen by men! Jesus hates religiosity and that is religiosity.

Well, DarkNLovely already explained what she meant by distinct, so I have no comment there other than to say I see both sides of this discussion. A point can definitely be made about outward Christianity being for show, and not just to please God. However....

As my pastor points out, the worst thing we as Christians can do in the world is to go out there and be just like them. Let's not forget that old bit about if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it probably ain't no chicken.

We are called to be set apart. We should not look, think, talk, and act like the world. In that sense we are to be distinct. But yes, I can see point about playing holier-than-thou games of comparison. Which Dark wasn't trying to do...

tamtam92 · Jun 16, 2008

This argument about "outward show" is not correct. Someone having a christian appearance is not necessarily a christian, but a christian should look like a christian.

pastorrp · Oct 19, 2009

Floatingaxe said:
There is no practice of wearing headcoverings in the church. All God wants is your worship.

I guess I don't follow your logic. Most of the women in our church have recently started to cover, but it is because this last summer they had a Bible study, they looked at 1st Corinthians 11:7, which says that the woman is the glory of man, then they compared that to 1st Corinthians 1:29, which says that no flesh ought to glory when it is in God's presence, and concluded that if they didn't cover, they were setting their men up to be showing off their glory (the wives) when they came to church to worship God. Plus the women who had long hair like it says in 1st Corinthians 11:15 were also showing off their own glory if they didn't cover it.

Also, none of them are doing it because of showing headship to their husbands, (or at least that's what they say) they do it to show the headship of Christ over His church. (Eve rejected Adam's headship, Adam failed to exercise it and protect his wife, but these ladies are showing the angels - like it says in 1st Cor 11:10 - that this part of the bride of Christ is very content to show off the headship of Christ over His church)

So if they have got it right - and I think they do, - I am having trouble seeing how this is cool, to come into church for the purpose of worshiping God and still show off your own glory. People displaying their glory in the presence of God just does not sound like a good idea to me.

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